Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #4

[Countem]

Rescuers trying to save Titan submersible recall moment seeing debris

The rescuers called upon to save the doomed Titan submersible have recalled the moment they discovered debris on the ocean floor and realized all five men onboard were dead.

www.dailymail.co.uk

‘Upon coming into the debris field there was a pause,' Pelagic CEO EC told Sky News.

'Everyone's a professional, but you can't help but be impacted... it took us a moment to really understand and think about what it meant.'

 

[MsMarple]

The engineer’s relationship with the public is based on trust. The public trusts that we don’t take risks with their lives. If it wasn’t for this trust, nobody would cross a bridge or board an airplane. Such is the faith of the public in engineering—and in modern times, the faith is well deserved. Rare is it that an engineer will risk human life.
…
“That engineering side, we just had no idea,” said Christine Dawood, who was widowed after the Titan submersible sank, in an interview in the New York Times. “I mean, you sit in a plane without knowing how the engine works.”

Trust Me, I’m an Engineer—The Broken Promise That Sunk the Titan Submersible

What do we know about Stockton Rush, founder of OceanGate?

www.engineering.com

Interesting reading. The article questioned some of Rush’s claims, such as having to give up aspirations of becoming an Air Force pilot due to poor eyesight.

 

[MsMarple]

Another (long) article about trust, this one questions a memorandum of understanding between OceanGate and The Marine Institute, a post secondary school in St. Johns:

The company and the institution signed a memorandum of understanding in early 2023. OceanGate would save space on the support vessel Polar Prince for students and researchers, while the Marine Institute would save space at its Holyrood facility to store the Titan.
…
Kohnen considers the lack of due diligence a "dereliction of duty," and believes the public declaration of a partnership could have affected the informed consent of people considering a $250,000 seat on the submersible.

"There is a profound belief that advanced institutions understand the importance of knowledge and information — and therefore will be discerning, for they become the willing or hapless ambassadors."
…
Given the specs of the sub, Kohnen says, any legitimacy was problematic.

"It is not proper nor fair to expect public citizens to do their own due diligence," he said. "Maybe for buying a coffee maker or a bicycle, but surely not a submarine."
…
CBC News obtained thousands of pages of documents showing conversations between Rush and leaders at Marine Institute leading up to the MOU being signed. The documents are heavily redacted, citing exemptions for advice provided to public institutions.

CBC News intends to appeal the redactions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/marine-institute-oceangate-titan-1.6971118

At issue is the institute’s lack of vetting OceanGate before entering the agreement. The claim is that it wasn’t necessary since no student would be onboard the Titan.

Like the engineers in the prior article there is concern that the public could be misled into placing trust based solely on credentials. IMO let that be a warning to those eager to associate with projects without performing due diligence. Sometimes it comes back to haunt in a very unpleasant way. JMO

 

[borndem]

Another (long) article about trust, this one questions a memorandum of understanding between OceanGate and The Marine Institute, a post secondary school in St. Johns:

The company and the institution signed a memorandum of understanding in early 2023. OceanGate would save space on the support vessel Polar Prince for students and researchers, while the Marine Institute would save space at its Holyrood facility to store the Titan.
…
Kohnen considers the lack of due diligence a "dereliction of duty," and believes the public declaration of a partnership could have affected the informed consent of people considering a $250,000 seat on the submersible.

"There is a profound belief that advanced institutions understand the importance of knowledge and information — and therefore will be discerning, for they become the willing or hapless ambassadors."
…
Given the specs of the sub, Kohnen says, any legitimacy was problematic.

"It is not proper nor fair to expect public citizens to do their own due diligence," he said. "Maybe for buying a coffee maker or a bicycle, but surely not a submarine."
…
CBC News obtained thousands of pages of documents showing conversations between Rush and leaders at Marine Institute leading up to the MOU being signed. The documents are heavily redacted, citing exemptions for advice provided to public institutions.

CBC News intends to appeal the redactions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/marine-institute-oceangate-titan-1.6971118

At issue is the institute’s lack of vetting OceanGate before entering the agreement. The claim is that it wasn’t necessary since no student would be onboard the Titan.

Like the engineers in the prior article there is concern that the public could be misled into placing trust based solely on credentials. IMO let that be a warning to those eager to associate with projects without performing due diligence. Sometimes it comes back to haunt in a very unpleasant way. JMO

Great post! SMH about this venture -- no words.
Let's hope that this sad venture will make a difference to designers and to those who hope for an exciting and safe adventure. <sigh>

 

[panini]

OceanGate Titan sub disaster movie in the offing

Film based on fatal expedition to wreck of Titanic planned by producer of comedy horror The Blackening

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chimera]

@panini : My goodness , who thought that was a good idea ?
A producer of 'comedy horror' ?
For realz ?

Oh, and -- Welcome to Websleuths !!

 

[borndem]

Please no. How could a 1 -- 2 hour movie (or whatever length -- SMH) be done on this?? We've essentially already seen the real thing in the news releases and articles. So tragic.
Whatevah.. so sad.

 

[ifindedout]

More presumed human remains recovered from submersible that imploded, killing 5, Coast Guard says

The Coast Guard has recovered remaining debris, including presumed human remains, from a submersible that imploded on its way to explore the wreck of the Titanic, killing all five onboard, deep ben…

ktla.com

The Coast Guard said that the recovery and transfer of remaining parts was completed last Wednesday, and a photo showed the intact aft titanium endcap of the 22-foot (6.7-meter) vessel. Additional presumed human remains were carefully recovered from within Titan’s debris and transported for analysis by U.S. medical professionals, the Coast Guard said.

The salvage mission conducted under an agreement with the U.S. Navy was a follow-up to initial recovery operations on the ocean floor roughly 1,600 feet (488 meters) away from the Titanic, the Coast Guard said.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

The Coast Guard said that the recovery and transfer of remaining parts was completed last Wednesday, and a photo showed the intact aft titanium endcap of the 22-foot (6.7-meter) vessel. Additional presumed human remains were carefully recovered from within Titan’s debris and transported for analysis by U.S. medical professionals, the Coast Guard said.

The salvage mission conducted under an agreement with the U.S. Navy was a follow-up to initial recovery operations on the ocean floor roughly 1,600 feet (488 meters) away from the Titanic, the Coast Guard said.

Have they really been consistently searching for more parts since June 18? I had no idea, if they were. Thought the search wrapped up after a week or two.

 

[Puzzles8]

Dateline October 10. 2023

"The Coast Guard has recovered remaining debris, including presumed human remains, from a submersible that imploded on its way to explore the wreck of the Titanic, killing all five onboard, deep beneath the Atlantic Ocean's surface, officials said Tuesday.

The Coast Guard said that the recovery and transfer of remaining parts was completed last Wednesday"

More presumed human remains recovered from submersible that imploded: Coast Guard

The Coast Guard says it has recovered remaining debris, including presumed human remains, from a submersible that imploded in June on its way to explore the wreck of the Titanic, killing all five onboard

abcnews.go.com

I'm grateful the Coast Guard continued to search for so long and hopefully give these families closure.

JMO

 

[ifindedout]

Company cancels expedition to recover more Titanic artifacts after renowned expert died in Titan sub

The company’s original 2024 expedition plan also included possibly retrieving objects from the ship’s famed Marconi room

www.nbcbayarea.com

The company that owns the salvage rights to the Titanic shipwreck has cancelled plans to retrieve more artifacts from the site because the leader of the upcoming expedition died in the Titan submersible implosion, according to documents filed in a U.S. District Court on Wednesday.

The decision could impact a looming court battle between the company and the U.S. government, which has been trying to stop the 2024 mission. U.S. attorneys have said the firm's original plans to enter the ship's hull would violate a federal law that treats the wreck as a gravesite.

Paul-Henri Nargeolet was the director of underwater research for RMS Titanic, Inc, the Georgia-based firm that recovers and exhibits Titanic artifacts. Nargeolet was lending his expertise to a separate company, OceanGate, when he and four others died on the Titan's final dive near the Titanic in June.

 

[Countem]

American authorities consider criminal manslaughter over Titan sub

American authorities are considering filing criminal manslaughter charges over the doomed Titan sub, which imploded in June on a dive to the wreck of the Titanic in the North Atlantic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

American authorities are considering filing criminal manslaughter charges over the doomed Titan sub, The Mail on Sunday has learned.

 

[PrairieWind]

American authorities consider criminal manslaughter over Titan sub

American authorities are considering filing criminal manslaughter charges over the doomed Titan sub, which imploded in June on a dive to the wreck of the Titanic in the North Atlantic.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I wish the reporter in that article could have done a little more digging. Like, "who" is considering filing charges.

 

[Countem]

OceanGate Co-Founder Defends Company, Says Regulations Were ‘Sparse’

OceanGate’s co-founder said an investigation is the best way to preserve the legacies of those killed on the Titan submersible. Guillermo Söhnlein, who is no longer with the company, said CEO Stockton Rush was ‘extremely diligent’ about risks. Photo: OceanGate Expeditions/Reuters

www.wsj.com

OceanGate Co-Founder Defends Company, Says Regulations Were ‘Sparse’

 

[ilovewings]

OceanGate Co-Founder Defends Company, Says Regulations Were ‘Sparse’

OceanGate’s co-founder said an investigation is the best way to preserve the legacies of those killed on the Titan submersible. Guillermo Söhnlein, who is no longer with the company, said CEO Stockton Rush was ‘extremely diligent’ about risks. Photo: OceanGate Expeditions/Reuters

www.wsj.com

So Stockton Rush was "diligent about risks"-- okey dokey then-- SERIOUSLY?
This man has quite a sense of humor- except the death of innocent people who trusted Mr. Rush is not humorous at all!

 

[iamshadow21]

So Stockton Rush was "diligent about risks"-- okey dokey then-- SERIOUSLY?
This man has quite a sense of humor- except the death of innocent people who trusted Mr. Rush is not humorous at all!

Never met a risk he didn't take, more like.

MOO

 

[somequestions]

I understand why so many people think that Oceangate CEO Stockton Rush disregarded safety. I do not agree with his overall view about safety, but I also do not think that he wanted to die either. I can understand why people think what they do because of how many different people warned him about the submersible's design.

I think the fatal flaw was the fact that the Titan submersible did dive to the Titanic wreck site at least twice before. This made him think everything was safe.

CBS Sunday Morning even did a program about Oceangate back in December 2022. Except for mentioning the waiver and how it mentions the word "death" so many times, there was very little reference to the safety concerns people had been bringing up in phone calls, emails, and letters from years earlier.

 

[ilovewings]

I understand why so many people think that Oceangate CEO Stockton Rush disregarded safety. I do not agree with his overall view about safety, but I also do not think that he wanted to die either. I can understand why people think what they do because of how many different people warned him about the submersible's design.

I think the fatal flaw was the fact that the Titan submersible did dive to the Titanic wreck site at least twice before. This made him think everything was safe.

CBS Sunday Morning even did a program about Oceangate back in December 2022. Except for mentioning the waiver and how it mentions the word "death" so many times, there was very little reference to the safety concerns people had been bringing up in phone calls, emails, and letters from years earlier.

I don't believe he wanted to die- that is not the issue though- I think he was arrogant - thought he was invincible, and disregarded safety protocols --- he was told by many people that what he was doing was very dangerous but he didn't pay attention--- He got away with what he was doing a couple of times----but his luck gave out and we know the rest of the story

 

[BeachSky]

I don't believe he wanted to die- that is not the issue though- I think he was arrogant - thought he was invincible, and disregarded safety protocols --- he was told by many people that what he was doing was very dangerous but he didn't pay attention--- He got away with what he was doing a couple of times----but his luck gave out and we know the rest of the story

Exactly!

OceanGate CEO once complained of industry’s ‘obscenely safe’ regulations

Stockton Rush, the founder and CEO of OceanGate Expeditions, complained that the US submarine industry’s safety rules had been holding back his “innovations.”

nypost.com

David Lochridge, OceanGate’s former director of marine operations, warned the company in 2018 about the dangers allegedly present in the Titan sub.
Lochridge said he found a “lack of non-destructive testing performed on the hull of the Titan,” and when he raised the issues with Rush, he was wrongfully terminated, according to a lawsuit.
“OceanGate gave Lochridge approximately 10 minutes to immediately clear out his desk and exit the premises,” Lochridge’s attorneys said in the filing.

The paying passengers would not be aware, and would not be informed, of this experimental design, the lack of non-destructive testing of the hull, or that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible.”

 

[PrairieWind]

I don't know if we have any structural engineers on here or experts in composite materials, but if we do I'd like to know a few things. I don't know much about composites, they are strong and light weight. But would repeated dives to depth weaken the structure? What is believed to have failed here, was it the carbon tube itself, or where it connected to the titanium end bowls? It was mentioned above that the sub had made this dive before so that would give him confidence that it worked. And that makes sense. But would it also be true that each successive dive might make the structure weaker?