TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[joyless]

All the posts here have been really productive for thinking this through. I agree with those who believe that

- a mother would likely not leave a sick child, except for an emergency
- we don't have any evidence of that
- it's odd that she would move a sick child into bed with her sister...

Was this because they were all staying together because she somehow felt there was more safety in numbers? Did she want them together for some reason? When sick, most kids want their own beds.
- did she plan to talk to the father, or had he said he wanted to talk with her? Was there a noise reason why she wanted the girls together - in case it got heated?

For those who are mothers, can you think of a reason for this sleeping arrangement?

My x has a mental illness and when he was not well he had "anger issues" would stomp around downstairs acting a little scary, so I always had my daughter sleep in with me. I felt like I had her right next to me should we need to leave...and also, he would have to talk to me if he wanted to see her, he couldn't just wake her up...he'd have to deal with me. Sounds weird Im sure, but I totally understand her wanting the children in with her, especially if she felt he was unstable or angry...or something.

As always...MOO :twocents:

 

[Joe Friday]

Thanks otto - so can we agree also that accept for the result of a ping - in the case of a missing persons last cell phone activity there is a HUGE difference between an update and a google search???

:furious:

The difference would be that an update is automatic and does not require the cell phones user to do anything, a Google search would require the user to make a search. Until we knew the connection was automatic it meant that someone likely used her phone at that time and location.. Now we only know that the phone was in a general location at a certain time and it doesn't mean anyone had to be using the phone then.

I think the most important thing is the location where the phone was when the automatic connection with the internet took place. Some how her phone got to that location at around 5:00 AM. That gives a direction in which to look for her.


JMO

 

[tarabull]

Well then, I suppose it would be a good too see a map showing the scope of 12 miles from Karen's home.

I have no idea how to create such a thing, but I know of someone around here that is real good at mapping and creating visuals.

 

[tarabull]

Of the many things that bothers me about this case, this one keeps creeping back to the top of the list:

My child at that age NEVER woke up at 6 am, unless it was Christmas morning. I especially can't imagine him waking up at 6 am after getting only maybe 4 hours sleep, tops, when sick to begin with.

So what woke her up at 6am?

I don't like it.

bbm above

I get where you are coming from...but I wonder if this explains the daughter waking - maybe her internal alarm clock - even kids have one don't they??

Swift's father Gary Johnson, 67, told ABCNews.com that the family is "worried to death" and that Swift's four children—two boys and two girls—are devastated.

"She had never missed a day since they can remember that she wasn't there to wake them up at 6 a.m.," Johnson said

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-missing-tennessee/story?id=14867155#.TrGqUnLO02I

 

[Backwoods]

I'm new to this thread and, while I have read rather quickly through the all the posts, I haven't read all the links, etc.

Just had a thought -- and I think this is unlikely, since Karen apparently was a runner/fitness enthusiast -- but just wanted to throw it out there -- was she by chance nevertheless a smoker?

I am, and I just know that sometimes when I have run out of cigarettes unexpectedly and then couldn't sleep, etc., I have gone out to the nearest open store at some pretty strange hours to grab a pack -- and probably would be more likely to do so during a high-stress time. Made me wonder how close the nearest open store would be from her house during the crucial hours.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm new to this thread and, while I have read rather quickly through the all the posts, I haven't read all the links, etc.

Just had a thought -- and I think this is unlikely, since Karen apparently was a runner/fitness enthusiast -- but just wanted to throw it out there -- was she by chance nevertheless a smoker?

I am, and I just know that sometimes when I have run out of cigarettes unexpectedly and then couldn't sleep, etc., I have gone out to the nearest open store at some pretty strange hours to grab a pack -- and probably would be more likely to do so during a high-stress time. Made me wonder how close the nearest open store would be from her house during the crucial hours.

There couldn't be that many convenience stores open around there overnight on a Sunday, and I'm sure they've all been checked. Nothing has ever been said about any receipts or sightings by anyone. And why didn't she stop on the way to pick up the child, since she knew they would go straight home after that?

I don't think she's a smoker anyway, with her fitness background.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Of the many things that bothers me about this case, this one keeps creeping back to the top of the list:

My child at that age NEVER woke up at 6 am, unless it was Christmas morning. I especially can't imagine him waking up at 6 am after getting only maybe 4 hours sleep, tops, when sick to begin with.

So what woke her up at 6am?

I don't like it.

It was the father who said that about 6 a.m. I don't know why they would need to be up that early on a Sunday morning, since even most Sunday schools don't begin until 9 a.m. at the earliest. And if the child was sick, why would she go to Sunday School anyway?

It was the father who threw out that time. I've heard of families that make the kids get up that early so the whole family can eat breakfast together, but that seems unlikely given the family problems going on.

Maybe he was thinking of school days? My son in high school has to get up at 6:15 and school starts at 7:15. But the younger kids start later than that. Also, this wasn't a school day.

 

[ThoughtFox]

All the posts here have been really productive for thinking this through. I agree with those who believe that

- a mother would likely not leave a sick child, except for an emergency
- we don't have any evidence of that
- it's odd that she would move a sick child into bed with her sister...

Was this because they were all staying together because she somehow felt there was more safety in numbers? Did she want them together for some reason? When sick, most kids want their own beds.
- did she plan to talk to the father, or had he said he wanted to talk with her? Was there a noise reason why she wanted the girls together - in case it got heated?

For those who are mothers, can you think of a reason for this sleeping arrangement?

I've moved sleeping children from one bed to another before. Sometimes when my kids were sick they would fall asleep in the Master bedroom while watching TV, and we would put them back in their own beds. I think probably every parent has had to move a child from the car or the couch to a bed before.

We don't know who moved her - could have been the mother or the father. It's part of the mystery.

:twocents: :cow: I think maybe this child was a little spoiled and was wanting some attention from Mom. She called from a slumber party begging to go home, then when they got hom she possibly wanted Mom to stay with her. It's impossible to know for sure. Some children are clingy, especially when they are sick. Others want to be left alone.

Since there was a divorce going on, maybe the child was just feeling needy or jealous that Mom was off doing things by herself.

My husband has been interested in this case, and he thinks that after the child fell asleep, the mother either got up, or was signaled to get up by the father, maybe so they could talk. I get that feeling, too, and I don't think that would wake up a sleeping child.

 

[Backwoods]

There couldn't be that many convenience stores open around there overnight on a Sunday, and I'm sure they've all been checked. Nothing has ever been said about any receipts or sightings by anyone. And why didn't she stop on the way to pick up the child, since she knew they would go straight home after that?

I don't think she's a smoker anyway, with her fitness background.

bbm: I think you're probably right -- I knew it was a long shot, just throwing it out there.

I didn't mean that she made it to the convenience store (if she ran out for cigs or something similar) -- I was kind of jumping off the theory someone posted that she could have started out, then had the tire trouble.

If it was a cigarette run (and again, I agree -- unlikely): She might have still had a few when she headed home, thought that would be plenty, then had a hard time getting to sleep, smoked them --

 

[belimom]

Regarding the daughter getting up at 6:00am, I brainstormed as best I could early on a Sunday morning:

1) she was sick and didn't feel well (although, I'm beginning to doubt that she was sick to begin with...)

2) she was awakened by her sister if they normally don't share a bed (e.g., feet poking someone, arm in the face, etc - happens with my kids when they end up in the same bed)

3) the sun started coming up and the light woke her - IF they were not supposed to be there that night, then it's possible that the blinds/curtains weren't closed at the usual bedtime.

4) she heard something that woke her - a door shutting, etc. - although she probably doesn't remember what woke her (or maybe she does and has told LE).

I'm betting on Number 4: her sleep being disturbed by someone/something.

 

[belimom]

I've moved sleeping children from one bed to another before. Sometimes when my kids were sick they would fall asleep in the Master bedroom while watching TV, and we would put them back in their own beds. I think probably every parent has had to move a child from the car or the couch to a bed before.

We don't know who moved her - could have been the mother or the father. It's part of the mystery.

:twocents: :cow: I think maybe this child was a little spoiled and was wanting some attention from Mom. She called from a slumber party begging to go home, then when they got hom she possibly wanted Mom to stay with her. It's impossible to know for sure. Some children are clingy, especially when they are sick. Others want to be left alone.

Since there was a divorce going on, maybe the child was just feeling needy or jealous that Mom was off doing things by herself.

My husband has been interested in this case, and he thinks that after the child fell asleep, the mother either got up, or was signaled to get up by the father, maybe so they could talk. I get that feeling, too, and I don't think that would wake up a sleeping child.

bbm

That's what I'm thinking as well. I think the husband had been there all night alone, with the DDs and Karen gone out to parties and to have fun. He could have done a lot of thinking and was not only upset about her leaving him but determined to get her to stay. With the kids asleep, that would have been a good time to get some adult talk in. Only, I don't think it went the way he wanted. :no:

 

[katydid23]

bbm

That's what I'm thinking as well. I think the husband had been there all night alone, with the DDs and Karen gone out to parties and to have fun. He could have done a lot of thinking and was not only upset about her leaving him but determined to get her to stay. With the kids asleep, that would have been a good time to get some adult talk in. Only, I don't think it went the way he wanted. :no:

bbm

I wonder if maybe one of his friends texted him about them seeing his wife at the party. Did she 'embarrass' him somehow by flirting or dancing with someone that night? When a divorcing couple stays together in the same house, often things get awkward.

 

[Joe Friday]

Regarding the daughter getting up at 6:00am, I brainstormed as best I could early on a Sunday morning:

1) she was sick and didn't feel well (although, I'm beginning to doubt that she was sick to begin with...)

2) she was awakened by her sister if they normally don't share a bed (e.g., feet poking someone, arm in the face, etc - happens with my kids when they end up in the same bed)

3) the sun started coming up and the light woke her - IF they were not supposed to be there that night, then it's possible that the blinds/curtains weren't closed at the usual bedtime.

4) she heard something that woke her - a door shutting, etc. - although she probably doesn't remember what woke her (or maybe she does and has told LE).

I'm betting on Number 4: her sleep being disturbed by someone/something.

BBM


Maybe something like the husband coming home after leaving the car parked down the road or perhaps him straightening up the house after a struggle woke her up at 6:00 AM? The timing would be perfect.

I think the husband moved the child to the other child's bedroom than confronted Karen about going out to party and leaving him home to babysit the younger daughter and things got ugly.

JMO

 

[otto]

Thanks otto - so can we agree also that accept for the result of a ping - in the case of a missing persons last cell phone activity there is a HUGE difference between an update and a google search???

:furious:

I suppose the big difference would be that the update is automatic, whereas a google search requires someone to create the search. Somehow I got the impression that the phone pinged automatically. Even if it didn't, the phone activity could have been done by the person that abducted her.

 

[otto]

Of the many things that bothers me about this case, this one keeps creeping back to the top of the list:

My child at that age NEVER woke up at 6 am, unless it was Christmas morning. I especially can't imagine him waking up at 6 am after getting only maybe 4 hours sleep, tops, when sick to begin with.

So what woke her up at 6am?

I don't like it.

There was a comment from Mr Johnson (I think that's Karen's father) who said that Karen never missed a day of waking her children up at 6 AM. If 6 AM was the usual time to get up, then even after a late night people often wake up at their usual time.

 

[otto]

Well then, I suppose it would be a good too see a map showing the scope of 12 miles from Karen's home.

I have no idea how to create such a thing, but I know of someone around here that is real good at mapping and creating visuals.

Here are 12 mile radius maps ... below is more likely the general area (I'm guessing)

 

[belimom]

Here are 12 mile radius maps ... below is more likely the general area (I'm guessing)

(snip)

Thank you, Otto!

My question is this: did the phone ping 12 miles from home on one tower? If so then that opens the door to additional areas, kwim?

Or do I have it wrong about where it pinged? TIA...

 

[otto]

Thank you, Otto!

My question is this: did the phone ping 12 miles from home on one tower? If so then that opens the door to additional areas, kwim?

Or do I have it wrong about where it pinged? TIA...

My understanding is that the phone only pinged on one tower, making it difficult to locate where the phone was at the time. It could have been near the home and it could have been near the river.

 

[panthera]

Of the many things that bothers me about this case, this one keeps creeping back to the top of the list:

My child at that age NEVER woke up at 6 am, unless it was Christmas morning. I especially can't imagine him waking up at 6 am after getting only maybe 4 hours sleep, tops, when sick to begin with.

So what woke her up at 6am?

I don't like it.

I understood it was somewhat normal for them to wake at that hour. Maybe she heard her dad was up. What is interesting though, if she noticed her mother missing after she got up and wandered around the house, or if she thought it odd that mother wasn't still in bed with her?

:waitasec:

 

[parker38]

I have given these SO's so much rope to prove themselves not guilty and
for me to be wrong but that happens few and far between.

These women need to stop thinking they are the lucky ones, 'because
he would never hurt' me. Now a days that's just dreaming. You need
to stay alert when seeking a divorce. You've lived with him.
What is his personality like?

Why were papers served after she left town?
Was he an angry man? jealous of her, did he think it would
ruiin him financially? And to stay in the same home I believe is very
risky. You have no way of knowing what his reaction to anything
might be at this point. And then there are the children. Is he upset
they won't be living with him all the time?

I believe that is why you should go to a shelter and then serve the
divorce papers. It may sound drastic to some but at least you and
your children will be safe. This just seems the road all these victims
take. I can't even remember all of them. Susan Powell comes to mind.
And Stacie Peterson. Gail P. It can't be some random men out there
making women who just sought a divorce dissappear. To me these
cases are very telling.

These threads go rather quickly and I try to keep up. That said,
I don't know if this has been mentioned or not. JMO