AMBER ALERT TN - Summer Moon-Utah Wells, 5, Rogersville, 15 Jun 2021 #29

[Shamrock1]

I personally find it very unusual.

A 5 year old vanishes into thin air.
3 remaining children are removed from the home.
A cast of characters from that day all offer up differing renditions on YouTube.
Allegations from the past 40+ years surface, also on YouTube.
More and more allegations surface. Again. YT.
A totally fabricated call is recorded and splashed on YT.

This whole case is pretty unique to me.

JMO

Well, that was my point . There’s a history of “pretty unique things” and the call fits in with that history. If the parents ceased all social media and interviews, that would be unusual IMO.

 

[Snow_In _June]

Well, that was my point . There’s a history of “pretty unique things” and the call fits in with that history. If the parents ceased all social media and interviews, that would be unusual IMO.

Well is it coincidence or circumstantial? as a personal thing I give 3 coincidences then a strikeout. Its just a personal rule of thumb.

 

[Dre]

Well, that was my point . There’s a history of “pretty unique things” and the call fits in with that history. If the parents ceased all social media and interviews, that would be unusual IMO.

I too was going to say WHAT are you talking about?!? But when I reread it I completely agree- at this point in time that ridiculous call to Mary was unsurprising completely- fits with the rest of the increasingly questionable behaviors. This is not grief! It’s muddying waters purposefully, intentionally and with blatant disregard that it harms and detracts from the focus on poor little SUMMER… WHERE ARE YOU BABY?!?

 

[Sundog]

There’s nothing unusual about the “prank” call. This is how the family continues to operate - publishing extensive details/opinions of their friendships, familial relationships, and breakdown of both across social media. That they would add a “prank” call to the mix is to be expected by parents who - presumably - have more free time to ruminate on everything with four children no longer in the home. JMO.

I agree, for those of us looking in, it was an unusal call, but for CW, it does seem that this is a behavioral pattern. I think it was H and A who talked about calls from CW crying and in a possibly drunken state saying that her children were missing, although they weren't missing. I think H and A said that this was commonplace with CW, and I'm guessing that there were probably other calls like this about other topics.

 

[flashy09]

rsbm

No, I don't think so. There definitely would have been kindergarteners bigger than her, but she doesn't look abnormally small to me.

Actually I think if she is 36 inches, that is extremely small for 5 yrs old. I will have to go back and look at records, but I know my "regular small for age" daughter was 39 3/4 on her 4th birthday and I am almost positive 42 inches at 5 yrs old.

I almost wonder if that is inaccurate for Summer's height.

 

[Spartygirl]

Does anyone know how to find the number of families who have had 2 family members go missing independently of each other?

IIRC, back in Thread 1 or Thread 2, there were some stats listed as a few people were checking on that.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Well is it coincidence or circumstantial? as a personal thing I give 3 coincidences then a strikeout. Its just a personal rule of thumb.

The probability of mutually exclusive things occurring together is the product of their individual probabilities.... The more you multiply the worse it gets.

 

[mpnola]

Hoax or scam seem like more appropriate words, to me. That call was not a prank. Pranks are laughed about and admitted to, after the fact.

 

[10ofRods]

You're correct, we don't know.

For one reason or another, the home wasn't a safe place for the boys. Could it be for their own protection against the social media backlash aimed towards DW and CW? Possibly, but if that was the case then why not send them to live temporarily with other family members?

Why add even more emotional distress by placing them in the foster care system? Surely that's the last thing CPS would want to do?

To warrant their removal I think they must have serious concerns for their wellbeing.

I'm sure they do. IIRC, the Wells have had contact with CPS prior to Summer going missing (which is why they said CPS was coming back).

Some of the issues we've seen from our internet perch include problems with substance abuse. Also, DW was and is a felon, and IIRC, it was a DV charge involving an incident where Grandma's knee was injured. I do think it was the admitted substance abuse (and then the admitted SA) that are now primary pieces of the CPS picture.

The house is not safe. I wonder what nutrition was like. I also wonder what the boys were doing on line and what kinds of games they were playing when CPS stopped by before Summer went missing. Why were they alerted to come in the first place? (Probably from the school, but who knows?) Were kids getting regular dental and medical care?

I don't know how the boys were doing in school, but I suspect CPS checked on that too and talked to teachers. I hope all three boys are doing better now and can have a stable school year.

 

[Bit of hope]

This is true. I believe, however, that most parents would say “I loved her so much” versus saying “she loved me so much.” JMO.

100 % agree...to me him saying it like this instead of f.i. "I feel so hurt, my heart is broken, I love (talking in the past tense would also be weird) her so very, very much and I can't live without her" This is so telling IMO. I can't look into this guy's head or heart but it feels like he wants to make clear that he is ok and not a bad dad.

 

[Skibunny]

For a certain type of person - certainly not a common event among people I know.

What do you think makes people more prone to this kind of "prank"?

Why are we calling it a prank as opposed to a crazy and inept attempt at some sort of...communication?

Can a prank be called by just one party - when it's crazy, drunken and somewhat malicious?

To me, continuing to call that call a "prank" is quite odd. Even if a person decides on a prank, an awful lot of people would not be able to pull off the (apparent) acting job that CW pulled off. Calling it a prank basically says she's got comedic talent and uses it to butt heads with others when it suits her.

I, unfortunately, used to have people like this in my life. Carbon copies of CBW, actually, both female. From my experience this call was an attempt at a con job by a very insecure person with absolutely no shame. The manufactured drama about the cops being at their home is thrown in as a smoke screen, and also adds immediate urgency. To me this is a variation of the "ambush con". I think the purpose of the call was to get Mary to drop her case on DW, but there isn't any words spoken but this topic on the call, so CBW can't be held accountable. It was a vague drama call.
At one point we had all of our land line phone ringers turned off, because we had two relatives sporadically doing these types of calls. This was before everyone had cell phones.

 

[Snow_In _June]

Actually I think if she is 36 inches, that is extremely small for 5 yrs old. I will have to go back and look at records, but I know my "regular small for age" daughter was 39 3/4 on her 4th birthday and I am almost positive 42 inches at 5 yrs old.

I almost wonder if that is inaccurate for Summer's height.

I always thought how tall she looked for her age. But that's just me

 

[Bit of hope]

How should victims who lost a child act? There seems to be this unwritten handbook people are supposed to take a note from and mimic such as a presser, hold up a pic of your lost child and cry for the camera, be extra careful with your words, no use of the past tense, scream from the mountain tops how much you love your child, etc. Some families of the missing step into action, they are guided by a strong support system or it's just in their make-up to take action, then you have those who rely on LE to do their jobs and they think they will find their loved one. I don't think either one is wrong.

I personally know a mom with a missing child (teenager). She described her grief of not knowing turning into madness and reckless decision making - like sleeping with her neighbor in his garage as her husband was napping on the sofa, there was another random hookup with a co-worker, day drinking, then she stole a can of hair spray just because. She said each of these actions gave her a weird high, a distraction and she just didn't care anymore.

Not sure what's wrong with my thinking here, but I can't even pretend to care about the supposed call CW made to M, that was then aired by CM on TIR. I also don't think LE gave a flip about it either. IMO

Thanks for posting this. It shows the non-logic behavior people can develop under enormous stress. There is no rule in any book.....

 

[Estelle]

I always thought how tall she looked for her age. But that's just me

How tall is a typical 5 year old?

At the age of 5, a typical child is about 43 inches tall and weighs about 43 pounds, according to the CDC. However, children at this age can vary by as much as 5 inches in height. A standard height is around 39 to 48 inches for a 5-year-old boy or girl, and a normal weight is between 34 and 50 pounds.

As Summer is 36 inches tall, she is very short for her age and at 40 lbs, she is less than average in weight. Summer's brothers seem to be short for their ages too.

 

[carbuff]

@carbuff , thank you so much for your reply.

I knew there was something special about Boston. I just didn't know where to start because it is such a big place.

Yes, their tech expertise... that would be a good reason to ignore Knoxville and go to the experts. I did notice a lot of mention of this on their site, but didn't realize the significance of it.

I did notice that the Boston chapter of the FBI has been investigating the Latin Kings. I mean probably daily since years. Link in case anyone wonders what that is. Latin Kings (gang) - Wikipedia

Also M13. But I don't think they're the primary on most of the gang stuff.

Last night when I was trying to get to sleep, I got to wondering if maybe CW's phone call is mostly true. Maybe FBI agents from Boston came to talk to Don about--ahem, something--and were doing exactly what she said, threatening, maybe even loading him into the car. And maybe she was in a panic because while she knows she and DW didn't do anything to Summer, she also knows they were doing--ahem, something--that the FBI might be interested in and might seriously arrest him for.

I dunno. But I did get to wondering.

 

[carbuff]

How tall is a typical 5 year old?

At the age of 5, a typical child is about 43 inches tall and weighs about 43 pounds, according to the CDC. However, children at this age can vary by as much as 5 inches in height. A standard height is around 39 to 48 inches for a 5-year-old boy or girl, and a normal weight is between 34 and 50 pounds.

I'm not sure there is a typical 5-year-old. In my grandson's kindergarten class, he towered over several of the other kids. He's around 48". His friend could stand on a step and still didn't come up to his ear; I'd guess she was a full foot shorter. They were all rising first graders like Summer.

 

[Bit of hope]

There is such a thing as parental control of SM to shield children, along with not "Drinking and Stuff". To keep them safe. MOO

Yes, in a bright and shining world where everything is ok and "like it should be", (according to who I wonder?), with model parents, flawless, yes, absolutely you have an obligation to your children to keep them safe. BUT I hate to tell you this: there are people who, for whatever reason, can't satisfy the considered "normal"conditions keeping their children safe, because they can't. (again, who determines the conditions and what is normal?) There are a lot of people out there, yes, also with children, where things don't run smooth to say the least....take a look at all the missing runaways, addicted persons, homeless persons....<modsnip> adding to add....this is not a plea for the Wells family, but a cry for understanding and compassion for all those out there who are in trouble.

 

[10ofRods]

I, unfortunately, used to have people like this in my life. Carbon copies of CBW, actually, both female. From my experience this call was an attempt at a con job by a very insecure person with absolutely no shame. The manufactured drama about the cops being at their home is thrown in as a smoke screen, and also adds immediate urgency. To me this is a variation of the "ambush con". I think the purpose of the call was to get Mary to drop her case on DW, but there isn't any words spoken but this topic on the call, so CBW can't be held accountable. It was a vague drama call.
At one point we had all of our land line phone ringers turned off, because we had two relatives sporadically doing these types of calls. This was before everyone had cell phones.

My dad had a sister like this, with whom he eventually went no contact. Some of the stories are absolutely incredible. My ex-husband is a psychiatrist and did get to observe her in action. His diagnosis was Borderline Personality disorder. I did a lot of psychiatric field diagnosis and I agreed.

My aunt would just...stop by...if Dad didn't answer the phone, even after he tried to go no contact. She was his older sister and at one brief point in time had helped him move from CO to CA, so he felt beholden to her. But the "pranks" were actually attempts to wound other people. Nothing about them was funny, except to this aunt. Her husband was embarrassed and appalled. My mom had never known or met such a person and kept letting her in - always with drama. At any rate, the "pranks" my aunt pulled included two that caused serious physical harm to three people, as well as immense psychological harm/pain to her daughter, and two husbands.

With people like this, just the disruption to ordinary thought (in the people around them) is major. Family members are constantly confused, attempting to be charitable, attempting to help - until they finally see the truth. Eventually all siblings abandoned my aunt and her daughter moved as far away as possible.

"Ambush con" is a phrase I've never heard, but I certainly had a lot of memories of my aunt come back - and she wasn't abusing any substances, she was just...like that. And she used this tactic a lot - couldn't help herself. If that's what CW is like, it really does explain several puzzling aspects to this case. Like CW, my aunt hid certain behaviors and actions from her immediate family (for CW, it's drug-seeking behavior).

It's just so hard for me to believe that such a person managed to have...6 kids? Is it six, total?

 

[Bit of hope]

How tall is a typical 5 year old?

At the age of 5, a typical child is about 43 inches tall and weighs about 43 pounds, according to the CDC. However, children at this age can vary by as much as 5 inches in height. A standard height is around 39 to 48 inches for a 5-year-old boy or girl, and a normal weight is between 34 and 50 pounds.

As Summer is 36 inches tall, she is very short for her age and at 40 lbs, she is less than average in weight. Summer's brothers seem to be short for their ages too.

Why is this relevant?

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm sure they do. IIRC, the Wells have had contact with CPS prior to Summer going missing (which is why they said CPS was coming back).

Some of the issues we've seen from our internet perch include problems with substance abuse. Also, DW was and is a felon, and IIRC, it was a DV charge involving an incident where Grandma's knee was injured. I do think it was the admitted substance abuse (and then the admitted SA) that are now primary pieces of the CPS picture.

The house is not safe. I wonder what nutrition was like. I also wonder what the boys were doing on line and what kinds of games they were playing when CPS stopped by before Summer went missing. Why were they alerted to come in the first place? (Probably from the school, but who knows?) Were kids getting regular dental and medical care?

I don't know how the boys were doing in school, but I suspect CPS checked on that too and talked to teachers. I hope all three boys are doing better now and can have a stable school year.

I don't know if the school reported to CPS but we do know that Ally reported them to CPS. She said that in the interview and I believe it was in an article way back.

In addition, DW's sister apparently reported DW to his Parole Officer and CPS in Utah. DW let that tidbit fly in his call with Mary.

Overall, the Wells have been reported via various means in 3 states and that's all we know about. Wisconsin, Utah and Tennessee.