To those of you sitting on the fence....

[madeleine]

According to the ransom note, the motives were hatred, nationalism, jealousy, revenge, and money. According to the basement it was child exploitation and self-preservation.

According to the evidence and everything that happened after the murder it was a family trying to cover up a crime.

 

[BBB167893]

According to the evidence and everything that happened after the murder it was a family trying to cover up a crime.

We certainly CAN draw that conclusion! (I've spent 1-1/2 years writing down how I got there; you better believe I can!)

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We certainly CAN draw that conclusion! (I've spent 1-1/2 years writing down how I got there; you better believe I can!)

Speak for yourself. I think you meant 'RDI' when you typed 'We'.

 

[redeemed]

I didnt want to start a new thread , but does anyone know what happened to Voynich? he seems to have disappeared suddenly...

 

[Roy23]

We certainly CAN draw that conclusion! (I've spent 1-1/2 years writing down how I got there; you better believe I can!)

I do not draw that conclusion at all. In face of all the evidence, several scenarios are quite logical and possible. And the case has changed because of these facts.

 

[Sophie]

I didnt want to start a new thread , but does anyone know what happened to Voynich? he seems to have disappeared suddenly...

I was wondering that, Redeemed. Hope he is OK.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The important thing is that they are realistic ideas. Sensible ideas. Ideas that fit with the way things actually work in real life.

There isn't much realistic about RDI when you stop and think about it.

The most surreal is an image of a person who lives in the same house scratching their head and then raising a finger and saying "Oh, I'll write a ransom note, and I'll make it 350 words, 1500 characters long"

I wouldn't do that, and I know you wouldn't do that either.

Things only get sensible when you can identify an actual motive. Even if you identify a motive for JR or PR killing or staging a killing, you still have to prove they did it. RDI doesn't even have a known motive, let alone proving PR or JR did it. Therefore, claims of RDI are no more sensible than claims any given neighbor did it. Remember that the R's house had doors and windows and everything, and that we know this crime happened at night when most people were sleeping.

 

[Chrishope]

There isn't much realistic about RDI when you stop and think about it.

The most surreal is an image of a person who lives in the same house scratching their head and then raising a finger and saying "Oh, I'll write a ransom note, and I'll make it 350 words, 1500 characters long"

I wouldn't do that, and I know you wouldn't do that either.

Things only get sensible when you can identify an actual motive. Even if you identify a motive for JR or PR killing or staging a killing, you still have to prove they did it. RDI doesn't even have a known motive, let alone proving PR or JR did it. Therefore, claims of RDI are no more sensible than claims any given neighbor did it. Remember that the R's house had doors and windows and everything, and that we know this crime happened at night when most people were sleeping.

Well someone was dumb enough to write 350 words, so with out doing any analysis, there's a 50/50 chance it was the Rs rather than an intruder.

It makes little sense that an intruder wrote the note, on paper borrowed from the Rs. An intruder would more likely have brought a note he'd already written out.

It makes little sense that a SFF would murder a 6 year old girl who was virtually unknown outside pageant circles. This does not strike a blow against the USA.

It makes little sense for an intruder to ask for $118k, thereby tipping off police that he is one of the few people who knew the amount of JR's bonus.

It makes little sense to demand ransom then leave the body behind where it will likely be discovered before the ransom is paid.

It makes little sense that the crime started out as a kidnapping then morphed into a sex murder.

Really you can't identify an actual motive for an intruder either. There is of course the smorgasbord of motives in the RN, none of which are particularly compelling, except maybe kidnapping for ransom - but then, it wasn't a kidnapping case.

 

[slug]

I think motive will be hard to prove till we know who was responsible.
If she had been removed from the house and a ransom note found then obviously motive is kidnapping, but that didn't happen.
The ransom note is a fake IMO and could be read to inclued several motives.
At the end of the day if getting a ransom was the only motive it would have been very different.

 

[BBB167893]

Speak for yourself. I think you meant 'RDI' when you typed 'We'.

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

[BBB167893]

I didnt want to start a new thread , but does anyone know what happened to Voynich? he seems to have disappeared suddenly...

I'm kind of curious about that myself.

I'm tempted to say he flew off to his swamp planet when he realized the Sith were too powerful.

 

[BBB167893]

I do not draw that conclusion at all.

Never said you did.

In face of all the evidence, several scenarios are quite logical and possible. And the case has changed because of these facts.

That's why I used the word "can" instead of "should."

 

[redeemed]

I'm kind of curious about that myself.

I'm tempted to say he flew off to his swamp planet when he realized the Sith were too powerful.

I guess Voynich is doing some homework now...
I wouldn't be surprised if he returned and started a new thread under the name : " I converted ....RDI:truce: "

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well someone was dumb enough to write 350 words, so with out doing any analysis, there's a 50/50 chance it was the Rs rather than an intruder.

It makes little sense that an intruder wrote the note, on paper borrowed from the Rs. An intruder would more likely have brought a note he'd already written out.

It makes little sense that a SFF would murder a 6 year old girl who was virtually unknown outside pageant circles. This does not strike a blow against the USA.

It makes little sense for an intruder to ask for $118k, thereby tipping off police that he is one of the few people who knew the amount of JR's bonus.

It makes little sense to demand ransom then leave the body behind where it will likely be discovered before the ransom is paid.

It makes little sense that the crime started out as a kidnapping then morphed into a sex murder.

Really you can't identify an actual motive for an intruder either. There is of course the smorgasbord of motives in the RN, none of which are particularly compelling, except maybe kidnapping for ransom - but then, it wasn't a kidnapping case.

If neither you nor I can't identify a motive, then how do we know how dumb or senseless it was?

No, really, thats a serious question.

Your post:

"It makes little sense that a SFF would murder a 6 year old girl who was virtually unknown outside pageant circles. This does not strike a blow against the USA. "

This is interesting because it presumes 'case closed' as if it can be declared with certainty what the causes and effects can and cannot be. Its an unknown and therefore the sky is the limit. There are no options off the table. There is one more serious scenario that is not discussed by anyone except the ransom note author. It seems to be more comfy to assume its either the parents who did it or a random intruder who decided to walk in off the street.

 

[voynich]

I didnt want to start a new thread , but does anyone know what happened to Voynich? he seems to have disappeared suddenly...

There is no sign of his body, sir.
Then he is not dead.
Double your search.
Yes sir. Right away, sir.

I'm kind of curious about that myself.

I'm tempted to say he flew off to his swamp planet when he realized the S[pin]were too powerful.

For a Dark Lord of the Spin, it's rather funny to me how close you are to the truth......
The answer to the "Simple question... " is

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRNUMAztVHc[/ame]

Failed to destroy the Spin, I have. To exile I must go, to Dagobah.

Your insights serve you well. Bury them deep or they will be made to serve the Spin.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fy8ufsXP_k[/ame]

We must take our evidence somewhere the Spin will not sense their presence.
Until the time is right, disappear we will.

 

[redeemed]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSywtiAirKE&feature=PlayList&p=06BDE5B1C83681A7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=31[/ame]

 

[Chrishope]

If neither you nor I can't identify a motive, then how do we know how dumb or senseless it was?

No, really, thats a serious question.

Your post:

"It makes little sense that a SFF would murder a 6 year old girl who was virtually unknown outside pageant circles. This does not strike a blow against the USA. "

This is interesting because it presumes 'case closed' as if it can be declared with certainty what the causes and effects can and cannot be. Its an unknown and therefore the sky is the limit. There are no options off the table. There is one more serious scenario that is not discussed by anyone except the ransom note author. It seems to be more comfy to assume its either the parents who did it or a random intruder who decided to walk in off the street.

Nothings off the table, but some things are far more likely than others. It's far more likely to have been the parents than a small foreign faction.

 

[voynich]

I guess Voynich is doing some homework now...
I wouldn't be surprised if he returned and started a new thread under the name : " I converted ....RDI:truce: "

How cute!

I've looked at that handwriting evidence and I must say, it's pretty persuasive evidence

Is it simpler to explain DNA evidence away as secondary transfer, or an intruder who
consciously attempted to imitate PR's handwriting? While I think that an intruder
could attempt a forgery of PR's handwriting, or coincidentally learned a handwriting
style that resembles PR, I kinda think that this is unlikely.

I do think the RN and PR handwriting look very similar. So I've had my arms cut off by Dave's Light Spin-er
Since I'm not trained in handwriting though I've seen very good forgeries, esp of signatures on
paintings and checks.

I can see why Da-Ve-der was seduced by the Dark Spin of the Forensics

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I've looked at that handwriting evidence and I must say, it's pretty persuasive evidence

Is the evidence you see truly evidence? Is it reflective of PR's exemplars?

Question its source, you should.

Finding a dozen or so of the most similar characters from a pool of 2000 characters from two writers using felt tip, via scan and fax, will probably produce visual similarities.

Fortunately this isn't handwriting analysis.

Handwriting analysis is when exemplars from one subject writer are studied to see if that writer is capable of producing a questioned document.

While there may have been some similarities, there are enough differences to prevent a consensus. That is, there are not five ABFDE CDE's stating that PR wrote the note. I'm not sure there are even three, and for those three there are three others say she didn't.

This is RDI's strongest argument, and even this argument isn't won.

 

[voynich]

Is the evidence you see truly evidence? Is it reflective of PR's exemplars?

Question its source, you should.

Finding a dozen or so of the most similar characters from a pool of 2000 characters from two writers using felt tip, via scan and fax, will probably produce visual similarities.

Fortunately this isn't handwriting analysis.

Handwriting analysis is when exemplars from one subject writer are studied to see if that writer is capable of producing a questioned document.

While there may have been some similarities, there are enough differences to prevent a consensus. That is, there are not five ABFDE CDE's stating that PR wrote the note. I'm not sure there are even three, and for those three there are three others say she didn't.

This is RDI's strongest argument, and even this argument isn't won.

I agree that if you cherry pick even my handwriting, you might find one of my "e" to look like the RN's "e", and I wonder if a computer analysis of the handwriting has been attempted. Still, I find the two e's and Cina Wong's other letters to be somewhat disconcerting given that those e's look similar and uncommon.

I would however like to see all the "e" in BOTH PR and RN, as well as the remaining letters. If, hypothetically speaking the other letters say "y" or "b" look completely different....

The resident Spin Lord can quote some guy named Epstein who thinks the handwriting is a 100% match.

What I would like to see is all the letters in the RN side by side by all letters of most exemplars of PR writing.