Trial Analysis

[downport]

Unless the jury swallows the abuse/KC learning to live in coverup mode/GA having complete control over her explanation, which I personally never could, the complete absence of grief and/or remorse is also a very strong indicator of premeditated murder. Only a murderer wouldn't mind their child dying, everyone else would be devastated.

I agree that her behavior/actions after June 16 will seal her fate. After all, it was the 'stories' & recordings/videos that first grabed the country's attention & revolted us. It will have the very same impact on the jury. They are no different than us.
However ...
Following the same ' the jury is just like us' train of thought, they could come back with a hung jury. It only takes one to have a seemingly outlandish opinion. One look at something such as posts here debasing Cindy Anthony's grief & making cruel & foul statements still, show how some people are capable are capable of having opinions devoid of common sense.

Personly, I have confidence in the states case thus far. It is orderly, expansive, easy to follow & painting a full & rich picture of what happened to this child.

Prediction; not only will the jury vote guilty as charged with death as the penalty, they may request to cary out the sentence themselves.

 

[Dragonlady]

This was the first thread that I posted on and I wanted to thank you WS's for the warm welcome. :tyou:

Re the trial:
I believe that the SA's decision to show ICA's personality and actions before the evidence was a brilliant move since it allows the jurors time to figure out her personality and tie that back into the events and evidence.

 

[LinasK]

I agree that her behavior/actions after June 16 will seal her fate. After all, it was the 'stories' & recordings/videos that first grabed the country's attention & revolted us. It will have the very same impact on the jury. They are no different than us.
However ...
Following the same ' the jury is just like us' train of thought, they could come back with a hung jury. It only takes one to have a seemingly outlandish opinion. One look at something such as posts here debasing Cindy Anthony's grief & making cruel & foul statements still, show how some people are capable are capable of having opinions devoid of common sense.

Personly, I have confidence in the states case thus far. It is orderly, expansive, easy to follow & painting a full & rich picture of what happened to this child.

Prediction; not only will the jury vote guilty as charged with death as the penalty, they may request to cary out the sentence themselves.

Noone on Websleuths has "debased" Cindy's grief. What we have a problem with is her behavior after reporting Caylee missing to 911. She lied and covered up for her daughter. She yelled at protesters and waved a hammer at them. She yelled at prosecutors. She made false accusations at the real Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez and Jesse Grund and tried to throw them under the bus. She demanded everyone get "off their asses and search for Caylee" while she didn't! And... while growing up, apparently never held Casey accountable for anything. This is why Cindy draws so much ire- not because of her loss.
For the first time, when Cindy did the right thing and testified against Casey, I finally felt an ounce of sympathy for her.

 

[Chablis]

It's not necessary for the prosecution to prove manner of death. They know it was suffocation, not drowning. Obviously, it was homicide, not suicide. Casey was the last known person to see Caylee alive, and was responsible for her care. She had the means, motive, and opportunity to commit this crime! I think the state is doing a fine job of proving it's case, I have no worries that Casey will get a 1st degree murder conviction, unless juror #4 (who "can't judge") causes a hung jury...

This is not true. The State of Florida cannot determine the actual cause of death. They have their suspicions, based on the duct tape, and disposal and age of the body, but they can't really prove it, they do not know she died of suffocation, its just a theory they are presenting to the jury.

 

[GeekyGirl]

It's not necessary for the prosecution to prove manner of death. They know it was suffocation, not drowning. Obviously, it was homicide, not suicide. Casey was the last known person to see Caylee alive, and was responsible for her care. She had the means, motive, and opportunity to commit this crime! I think the state is doing a fine job of proving it's case, I have no worries that Casey will get a 1st degree murder conviction, unless juror #4 (who "can't judge") causes a hung jury...

With all due respect, I tend to disagree. While I agree that the state has proven that Caylee's death was a homicide, and that Casey is the most likely person to be culpable in her death, I can't see where they've met the legal threshhold for murder. Manslaughter, almost certainly, but the evidence regarding her intent and premeditation just isn't enough to get me off the fence.

 

[LinasK]

With all due respect, I tend to disagree. While I agree that the state has proven that Caylee's death was a homicide, and that Casey is the most likely person to be culpable in her death, I can't see where they've met the legal threshhold for murder. Manslaughter, almost certainly, but the evidence regarding her intent and premeditation just isn't enough to get me off the fence.

And I strongly believe the computer searches for Chloroform and Neck Breaking, use of Duct Tape, and not calling 911 all prove premeditation. She also had motive. Caylee was never a wanted child- she hid her pregnancy for 7 months! This was NO accident!!!:twocents:

 

[GeekyGirl]

And I strongly believe the computer searches for Chloroform and Neck Breaking and use of Duct Tape prove premeditation. She also had motive. Caylee was never a wanted child- she hid her pregnancy for 7 months! This was NO accident!!!:twocents:

Those searches are fishy, but not enough for me without linkage and context. How much time did Casey spend on the computer? What other things did search for? I know some of the things I google would make me look like a psycho if taken out of context. Caylee's neck wasn't broken, and there's no proof that chloroform was involved in her death. Circumstantial evidence isn't bad evidence, but there are enough holes that if I were a juror, I don't think I could say that I believed in the state's theory of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not saying I think it was an accident, just that I don't think the state hasn't proven it was murder. As distasteful as it is in this case, Casey is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, not the other way around.

 

[Nore]

They have no proof the duct tape was put on prior to death. Even the States expert said the hair and roots possibly could have held the mandible on the skull. They have not proven the duct tape was the cause of death...they do not know the cause of death and their expert, Dr. G even testified that they do not know how the Caylee died. The defense has an expert that is going to say the body was tampered with and that the duct tape was post-mortem. There was no DNA on the duct tape, not even Caylee's.

----------
Dr. G. said the duct tape was placed prior to decomposition.
The autopsy report is a good read.

 

[goldenlover]

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Dr. G. said the duct tape was placed prior to decomposition.
The autopsy report is a good read.

She did say that, but she said it is because there would be no reason to place it after death. It was found stuck to her hair, not around the skull. JB got one of the other experts to admit to that fact - that they could not be 100% sure it was wrapped around the skill. Dr. G's testimony is pure speculation and statistical as to what always has happened in the past. I have not read the autopsy report, I am going on Dr. G's testimony, as that is what the jurors are going by. I don't think they have access to reading the autopsy report as it was not brought into evidence (yet).

 

[LinasK]

Those searches are fishy, but not enough for me without linkage and context. How much time did Casey spend on the computer? What other things did search for? I know some of the things I google would make me look like a psycho if taken out of context. Caylee's neck wasn't broken, and there's no proof that chloroform was involved in her death. Circumstantial evidence isn't bad evidence, but there are enough holes that if I were a juror, I don't think I could say that I believed in the state's theory of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not saying I think it was an accident, just that I don't think the state hasn't proven it was murder. As distasteful as it is in this case, Casey is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, not the other way around.

It's been reported she searched the site for Chloroform 84 times!!! As far as the neck-breaking, it's been hypothesized that she planned to kill George and Cindy to get the house. She told both Amy and Tony that within days of that weekend (Father's Day 2008) that she would be getting the house and Amy could move in with her. That was all falsehoods- Cindy had no plans to give up the house, neither did George. Casey changed her m.o. of killing spontaneously, but it doesn't mean she didn't plan to kill Caylee. Circumstantial evidence is very powerful, moreso than direct evidence. Most cases are circumstantial, and the puzzle pieces/bricks fit it. I think the state is doing a great job of proving it!:twocents:
P.S. they don't have to prove it beyond a Shadow of a Doubt, only reasonable doubt...

 

[goldenlover]

Those searches are fishy, but not enough for me without linkage and context. How much time did Casey spend on the computer? What other things did search for? I know some of the things I google would make me look like a psycho if taken out of context. Caylee's neck wasn't broken, and there's no proof that chloroform was involved in her death. Circumstantial evidence isn't bad evidence, but there are enough holes that if I were a juror, I don't think I could say that I believed in the state's theory of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not saying I think it was an accident, just that I don't think the state hasn't proven it was murder. As distasteful as it is in this case, Casey is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, not the other way around.

I agree with you. In my gut I feel she is guilty of the demise of her daughter, how, I am not sure, but I don't think the state has proven beyond a reasonable doubt and they only have one more day of witnesses. I think JB has a decent shot at shedding more reasonable doubt on the states case. The state needs something a little more concrete, and I don't think they have it. I am very surprised and disappointed that they do not have more. I know this is not what everyone wants to hear, but I think my opinion is important, as there could be a juror that has viewed the evidence in much the same way as I have. It only takes one juror.

 

[goldenlover]

As far as the chloroform search, since her boyfriend at the time sent her the "cartoon" or it was on his myspace or whaterver, maybe she didn't know what chloroform was and that is why she looked it up. I do that all the time, look up anything and everything if I have a question. I think the fact that she looked it up would have more meaning without the evidence that her boyfriend showed her that cartoon.

 

[TigerBalm]

As far as the chloroform search, since her boyfriend at the time sent her the "cartoon" or it was on his myspace or whaterver, maybe she didn't know what chloroform was and that is why she looked it up. I do that all the time, look up anything and everything if I have a question. I think the fact that she looked it up would have more meaning without the evidence that her boyfriend showed her that cartoon.

84 times?????

:waitasec:

Are you suggesting ICA was going through a '50 First Dates' kinda phase with this "how to make chloroform" thing???

 

[LinasK]

As far as the chloroform search, since her boyfriend at the time sent her the "cartoon" or it was on his myspace or whaterver, maybe she didn't know what chloroform was and that is why she looked it up. I do that all the time, look up anything and everything if I have a question. I think the fact that she looked it up would have more meaning without the evidence that her boyfriend showed her that cartoon.

If it were once yes, I'd buy that explanation, but 84 times!!!:snooty:

 

[GeekyGirl]

If it were once yes, I'd buy that explanation, but 84 times!!!:snooty:

But if you use that to conclude that she somehow manufactured her own chloroform, couldn't one also argue that she might have intended to use it for sedation purposes, rather than murder? That casts doubt on her intent, which is a requirement for a murder conviction. MOO of course.

 

[goldenlover]

If it were once yes, I'd buy that explanation, but 84 times!!!:snooty:

True, but JB got the FBI computer guy to testify that the entire search on the computer for Chloroform and anything to do with Chloroform was just 3 minutes, in the entire computer history. I tend to think the computer was refreshing itself or something, it would be hard to read any of the search resutls if you went to 84 sites in a period of just 3 minutes.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

If you ask me they may be too lazy to bother being properly prepared but they also come across as if they WANT us to think that the poor lil' defense team is short of money and resources and the big bad government is sparing no costs trying to convict their client.

Like the witness who was asked how much money he made from his depositions and he replied that he hadn't got his check from the defense. It was a bit of an embarrassing moment there IMO but then I got to thinking, surely Baez must have known if they'd paid him or not? Was he hoping that the jury would get the impression that the state had the funds to get the witness statement they wanted to and the defendant didn't?

Lack of money is not a reason not to use the technology provided by the courthouse IMO. They also have several laptops with which to create presentations so they can do without the wrinkly pad IMO.

Their whole table is a mess as well. They seriously look like a bunch of slobs and I say that as objectively as I can. Their table is noticeably cluttered with junk almost all the time and I don't see the SA guzzling red bull and generally behaving like they're at a ball game. That stuff matters and it shines through in everything they do from appearances to their actions.

 

[LinasK]

True, but JB got the FBI computer guy to testify that the entire search on the computer for Chloroform and anything to do with Chloroform was just 3 minutes, in the entire computer history. I tend to think the computer was refreshing itself or something, it would be hard to read any of the search resutls if you went to 84 sites in a period of just 3 minutes.

It wasn't 84 sites, it was the same site, and I don't know about your computer, but mine doesn't automatically refresh itself!

 

[LolaMoon08]

The searches for chloroform along with the extreme amounts of chloroform found in the trunk of her car is premeditated enough for me. Even if the searches were meant for her parents, it shows that Casey had murder on her mind. Does it really matter who she killed first and why??

The mere fact that Casey is still taking absolutely no responsibility for Caylee's death... even though she claims it was an accident... speaks to her consciousness of guilt.

 

[LinasK]

This is not true. The State of Florida cannot determine the actual cause of death. They have their suspicions, based on the duct tape, and disposal and age of the body, but they can't really prove it, they do not know she died of suffocation, its just a theory they are presenting to the jury.

It wasn't drowning, they didn't find water in her lungs, it was a "soft kill" meaning without blood. They know this. If the Chloroform didn't kill her, then duct tape did! It is a reasonable conclusion that she wouldn't have been able to breathe the way the duct tape covered her airways...