Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

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It's going to take me a while to get through all these posts. I'll be back on later.

A big THANK YOU to all who post the trial happenings on here. I really, really appreciate it!!!
 
Crycket said:
This made some of the facts really clear and gives a hint as to what evidence is still to come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noVdB2WP2DE
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Thanks for the clip. About 1/3 of the way through now and the 2 people have just conducted the sound test (of a heated argument) at 300m. Both admitted they couldn't hear a thing, not even at 200m. They couldn't hear anything until they got to 50m of the engineer's apartment. They said that would be a huge blow for the defence.

I think Dr Stipp lived 70m away from Oscar's house? Unless the test is recreated at exactly the same time of night, with the same weather conditions etc, I don't see how it can be proved that all these witnesses couldn't have heard an argument. Actually, there was no screaming in the test, just shouting. I imagine a high-pitched scream would travel further.
 
shane13 said:
Did anyone catch the timegap between the 2 sets of shots according to this last witness?

TIA
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All I remember Shane is that he said , he was awakened by three loud bangs, got up went out to the big balcony and moments later heard a woman screaming, three or four times. He went back inside phoned security but no answer, when busy on phone heard another three loud bangs thought if he was shooting again and told his wife to get out of the way from the window. Hope this helps.
 
Later I noticed by myself that I forgot one piece in my *reconstruction* (post #1462).

- When OP smashed the toilet door it wasn't broken totally (as seen in the crime scene photos). But there was a hole through which he could see Reeva. Later OP broke the rest of the panel by hand.....

 
Thank, W.

I was just re-listening to the tape.

The several minute gap between the 2 sets of shots has been resurrected. This jibes with published reports of a year ago, which is good!
 
Unless all the watches, clocks, phones involved in the timing of the event were running via a self correcting radio signal, there could be quite important discrepancies in the timing. We have a number of radio signal clocks, all read the same always, but we also have decorative clocks, watches, phones etc which all say something different by as much as two minutes. My two computers give different times and I thought they were centrally regulated. So how can we be absolutely sure Reeva was shot at 3.17am and not 3.18 am or even 3.19 am. Whose timing was used and was their timepiece reading the absolutely correct time? I feel I must be missing something here as these times seem to have been set in stone and seem particularly important to Roux. Perhaps someone would enlighten me.
 
whiterum said:
I think the State's case is sound and they know exactly which direction they are taking. All this OP screaming like a woman is all wind and bluster, it was RS screaming for her life that the witnesses heard pure and simple !
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I totally agree. Seems more in number and effective witnesses with consistent testimonies coming forward than supposed .. I can't bear listening to them , can't imagine Reeva's loved ones.
 
Update on shots fired and when.

I just finished seeing the video of the final hour of Dr. Stipp's testimony.

Nel is alleging all 4 shots were fired at 3:17. So no gap in his case alas.

Nel says he will have experts testify about the discrepancies between witnesses' # of shots, etc. Roux, of course, wants to claim the usual absurdities: woman's voice screaming was Oscar not Reeva, Reeva died from first shot not last (hard to keep up with his claims), etc.

Neither side mentioning 'echoes' [yet] but perhaps that is what Nel and later experts are or will dwell on.

Based on what Nel said today, I am on the verge of thinking both sides claimed versions are incorrect!
 
Pisto-lius, I think a lot of people may not know a handy is a cell/mobile phone in German, though I think it's great name! :)

A couple of other things;

I distinctly heard the Dr S stress 'it was moments, only moments' between the sets of shots today.

Dr S is saying it was the bathroom window he saw the person through. Oscar's whole excuse for putting bullets through the toilet door was because he saw the bathroom window open, panicked and thought a burglar had climbed through it and was hiding in the toilet cubicle.

Wouldn't it be great if the Dr could say that bathroom window was closed when he went out on his balcony and heard the shots?

Oscar's girlfriend had just died on the floor beside him, and DrS said Oscar was praying over and over to God to help her live, he'd devote his life to God etc....then he leaves her, before the ambulance arrives, to pop upstairs and wash his face and hands? Or have I got that wrong, because it sounds SUCH an unnatural thing to do. I've been stewing and stewing on that while digging my garden this afternoon...
 
Mountain Misst said:
I scream, you scream, everyone loves icecream.

Thanks everyone for your dedicated coverage. :loveyou:
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Oooh, MM, while you're here, do you have any idea what the sky was like that night? Pitch black or a full moon?
 
Lol, I wasn't quick enough to catch our MountainMisst. Anybody else any good at looking up moon and star things? I'm just thinking it's pretty unusual, if you haven't pulled the blinds, for a room to be 'pitch black'.

Oscar did say his balcony door was open, fans outside and blinds not down when he woke, I think?
 
soozieqtips said:
Thanks for the clip. About 1/3 of the way through now and the 2 people have just conducted the sound test (of a heated argument) at 300m. Both admitted they couldn't hear a thing, not even at 200m. They couldn't hear anything until they got to 50m of the engineer's apartment. They said that would be a huge blow for the defence.

I think Dr Stipp lived 70m away from Oscar's house? Unless the test is recreated at exactly the same time of night, with the same weather conditions etc, I don't see how it can be proved that all these witnesses couldn't have heard an argument. Actually, there was no screaming in the test, just shouting. I imagine a high-pitched scream would travel further.
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But we have already heard on the stand that the folks on the stand DID hear the recreation at their respective homes the night of the test they did, iirc was on Feburary 21st or 22nd. It was mentioned on the stand. Or have I misunderstood something....as hey...I was up from 2:30 am - 8:00 am and may have been half asleep :giggle:
 
Okay for me the case comes down to one point: if it was Reeva who was screaming at any point (and we pretty much know she was), then OP knew he was shooting HER and he continued to do it. Regardless of what happened in what order with shots or cricket bat, none of that matter. Reeva didn't think there was an intruder and she had no reason to scream unless her own life was in danger. And her life was in danger because the one person who was in the room with her put her life in danger.

I think he's not only guilty but now I think I could find him guilty of premeditated murder. To me there is no way he couldn't know Reeva was in that toilet room. Not with her bloodcurdling screams for her life. That's a primal type of scream, not one done in anger. I think he went into a rage and killed her, just like that. Then panicked afterwards and tried to create a story that would save his hide.
 
Cherwell said:
Carol70,

Could you clarify something for me, please? Do South Africans use the word 'bathroom' to mean 'toilet', or are the two things always distinct, as in the UK?

I ask because Americans use the word bathroom to mean toilet (as in "bathroom break"). In Britain we never do this: when we say 'bathroom' we mean a room containing a bath and/or shower.
We use many different words to describe the small room with just a WC (toilet, loo, lavatory, WC and many more :) ), but we never call it a bathroom. (Although regrettably this US usage is starting to creep in with younger people)

I'm sure this case is demonstrating how important it can be to distinguish between the two things.
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Hi Cherwell :wave:
Most of the main "bathrooms" in America have a toilet as well as a shower/bath, and sink, all in one room. Some also have a second bathroom that we call a "half bath" ~ which is a toilet and sink only.
It is confusing for people in different countries :smile: For instance it took me 3 days to figure out who "My Lady" was :lol:
 
Madeleine74 said:
Okay for me the case comes down to one point: if it was Reeva who was screaming at any point (and we pretty much know she was), then OP knew he was shooting HER and he continued to do it. Regardless of what happened in what order with shots or cricket bat, none of that matter. Reeva didn't think there was an intruder and she had no reason to scream unless her own life was in danger. And her life was in danger because the one person who was in the room with her put her life in danger.

I think he's not only guilty but now I think I could find him guilty of premeditated murder. To me there is no way he couldn't know Reeva was in that toilet room. Not with her bloodcurdling screams for her life. That's a primal type of scream, not one done in anger. I think he went into a rage and killed her, just like that. Then panicked afterwards and tried to create a story that would save his hide.
Click to expand...

These are my feelings at this point also. We have 4 people claiming to have heard a woman screaming and two or three of them heard 2 peoples voices. It also doesn't matter to me if it was a cricket bat or gunshot which was first. To claim he didn't know she was in there is absurd.
 
Peliman said:
These are my feelings at this point also. We have 4 people claiming to have heard a woman screaming and two or three of them heard 2 peoples voices. It also doesn't matter to me if it was a cricket bat or gunshot which was first. To claim he didn't know she was in there is absurd.
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Yep. That's where I stand too. Reeva's screams were evident to the neighbors which means that they were clearly evident to OP. He knew exactly who he was shooting at.
 
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