Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[Trooper]

Well, in fairness, just because Roux said he's going to present testimony, doesn't mean it will be persuasive.

Really.. when its all boiled down, the very best and most persuasive testimony that Roux could present that would portray all these witnesses who inconveniently imagined a womans scream WHILE THE SHOOTING was occurring ( dr Stipp), as raving loonies with wild imaginations, would assuredly be Oscar himself. Up on the stand, demonstrating how he can scream not only with skill enough to fool people that its a woman screaming, but at the SAME TIME, scream like a man would.
Because Dr Stipp heard BOTH at the same time a man AND a woman screaming..


I was thinking of those throat singers from Siberia, and some Innuit tribes who have this art down finely. and I wondered if Oscar had demonstrated this skill , quite a party piece , I would think, at any time previous to the murder??

 

[Schuby]

This gives a sense of how radically the voice can be altered by panic or hysteria:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bfRwJCl5mUE

 

[Trooper]

The problem with the witnesses' certainty that they could identify screams by gender is that we also have the testimony of the nearby neighbors who each interpreted the same the scream differently.

not one of them has interpreted the screaming as a mans, as opposed to it being a womans.. the difference is in the provocation of the scream..petrified, terrified, blood curdling, ... but always, from each witness so far, a womans voice.

 

[Trooper]

lets hope Oscar can do it, Schub!!.. should be simple .. it would put to rest these pesky witness who wont and cant redact their testimony, wouldn't it... just one scream from Oscar would dismiss their testimony in a new York minute..


sure... I cant wait for it.

 

[soozieqtips]

For OP's story to pan out, no one can have heard any female screaming at all. No one. ALL the witnesses must be 'mistaken'. Reeva had to have been totally mute the entire time, even when OP was shouting at her (when he thought she was in bed). As for replicating the scream, I imagine OP will have had female-screaming lessons from a vocal teacher some time in the past year!

 

[minor4th]

Nel stated in court today that Reeva died from the 3.17am volley of shots. What the earlier sounds were we don't know yet but it would not likely be OP bashing the door down before he had shot her. Something else is obviously afoot.

Right, the first set of banging was obviously not the cricket bat. So it logically follows that the first set of shots was the sound of the gunshots. The second set of bangs was the cricket bat. Nel stating that Reeva died from the 3:17 "shots" is incompatible with the evidence. There's no testimony that there were another set of bangs other than the shots and the cricket bat.

 

[jilly]

.....In terms of escalating frustration and violence the screaming first, then the cricket bat battering door, then shooting at door makes sense.....

Great post and snipped respectfully for space.

I just have one question..............if he battered the door with his cricket bat and then shot, how do you figure blood got on the bat?

 

[Schuby]

Really.. when its all boiled down, the very best and most persuasive testimony that Roux could present that would portray all these witnesses who inconveniently imagined a womans scream WHILE THE SHOOTING was occurring ( dr Stipp), as raving loonies with wild imaginations, would assuredly be Oscar himself. Up on the stand, demonstrating how he can scream not only with skill enough to fool people that its a woman screaming, but at the SAME TIME, scream like a man would.
Because Dr Stipp heard BOTH at the same time a man AND a woman screaming..


I was thinking of those throat singers from Siberia, and some Innuit tribes who have this art down finely. and I wondered if Oscar had demonstrated this skill , quite a party piece , I would think, at any time previous to the murder??

He's going to argue that none of the screams are reasonably identifiable to anyone. That even if there were screams simultaneous to the shots, OP could not have identified them as Reeva's because of their altered state.

 

[minor4th]

not one of them has interpreted the screaming as a mans, as opposed to it being a womans.. the difference is in the provocation of the scream..petrified, terrified, blood curdling, ... but always, from each witness so far, a womans voice.

You are ignoring Merwe's testimony that she thought the screaming sounded like a female but her husband corrected her and said it was Oscar screaming. This all happened before anyone knew what had actually happened.

So, it's certainly plausible that all of the witnesses who heard the screaming mistook it for a female when it was actually Oscar screaming.

 

[soozieqtips]

You are ignoring Merwe's testimony that she thought the screaming sounded like a female but her husband corrected her and said it was Oscar screaming. This all happened before anyone knew what had actually happened.

So, it's certainly plausible that all of the witnesses who heard the screaming mistook it for a female when it was actually Oscar screaming.

BBM - not all the witnesses. Dr Stipp said he heard 2 voices intermingled. I don't believe he's backtracked on that at all. What's your opinion on him hearing a second voice at the same time as the other? I'm curious to know how it's possible to hear 2 distinct voices if there is only one.

 

[Schuby]

lets hope Oscar can do it, Schub!!.. should be simple .. it would put to rest these pesky witness who wont and cant redact their testimony, wouldn't it... just one scream from Oscar would dismiss their testimony in a new York minute..


sure... I cant wait for it.

I'm not discounting the witness' testimony. I'm trying to find a way to reconcile ALL of their testimony. If you dismiss the discrepancies in their testimony then it is you who are discounting it.

 

[gxm]

Actually (sorry guys, I know you will hate this post but please believe me that I'm not advocating for OP's innocence or guilt, just trying to think about plausible ways to reconcile the evidence) it makes more sense to me that the light would be off if she had gotten up to use the bathroom. I don't turn my bathroom light on in the middle of the night, most people don't, because your half asleep and it hurts your eyes. On the flip side, it would make more sense that it be on if she is holed up in fear and trying to frantically manipulate a phone.

I don't turn the light on when I get up in the middle of the night but my husband does. I think it depends on the individual. That said, I think it would be more common to turn on the light when you aren't in your own home just because you don't know the layout as well.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Why were the first set of sounds "obviously not the cricket bat"? The doctor testified he heard two sets of sounds and that they both sounded the same to him.

There were indeed two sets of sounds. As of now, we only have the word of OP as to which set of sounds came first.

----------
"I don't turn my bathroom light on in the middle of the night, most people don't, because your half asleep and it hurts your eyes."

And you know this how?

The doctor testified the bathroom light was on, but not the toilet room light. Also that he saw the movement of a person "moving from right to left" behind the frosted glass.

------------------

Giving OP the benefit of the doubt, if he was the one "screaming like a woman", why was he doing this for an extended period? The screams heard have been described as increasing in intensity and anguish. Then they stopped.

What is Oscar's story about why he would have been screaming around like a woman - not just once, but enough for four different persons who heard the screams to describe the increasing distress in the voice - and then to just STOP? Until he goes out onto his own deck and screams "Help, help, help" in a man's voice.

 

[jilly]

Really.. when its all boiled down, the very best and most persuasive testimony that Roux could present that would portray all these witnesses who inconveniently imagined a womans scream WHILE THE SHOOTING was occurring ( dr Stipp), as raving loonies with wild imaginations, would assuredly be Oscar himself. Up on the stand, demonstrating how he can scream not only with skill enough to fool people that its a woman screaming, but at the SAME TIME, scream like a man would.
Because Dr Stipp heard BOTH at the same time a man AND a woman screaming..


I was thinking of those throat singers from Siberia, and some Innuit tribes who have this art down finely. and I wondered if Oscar had demonstrated this skill , quite a party piece , I would think, at any time previous to the murder??

omg:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: cracked me right up! lol

 

[aa9511]

'I heard the woman screaming......one of the houses directly opposite, I noticed nearly all the lights were on'

Oscar's house was next door to that and he says he saw Oscar's bathroom light on too.

O M G.

SO this was after the gunshots, is that correct?

I read earlier upthread that he said the gunshots woke him up, and then he heard screams. So would that be Oscar screaming afterwards? Which also corroborates other witnesses who said they heard screaming after the shots? (as well as of course, during the shots).

I am getting confused now!

 

[Cherwell]

So, it's certainly plausible that all of the witnesses who heard the screaming mistook it for a female when it was actually Oscar screaming.

So how do you explain two different voices heard screaming simultaneously?

(Ah, already asked, I see.)

 

[Schuby]

BBM - not all the witnesses. Dr Stipp said he heard 2 voices intermingled. I don't believe he's backtracked on that at all. What's your opinion on him hearing a second voice at the same time as the other? I'm curious to know how it's possible to hear 2 distinct voices if there is only one.

I agree, Soozie. His report of two voices is a sticking point for me as well.

 

[Trooper]

Oscar is pretty talented... not only can he scream like a terrified woman and at the same time a pitiful man, but he can wield a cricket bat like Jaque Kallis.

The other thing that was so informative was,, the call goes out to Stander, the security bloke at 3.19 am. .......

Dr Stipp comes over, ( very carefully, I would think, due to hearing a man and a woman screaming in terror and fury and gunshots) does what he can for this young woman lying dead in the hallway.. he quickly and expertly , because he is an expert in this field, establishes she is dead.. its now about 3.45 3.50am... with nothing more he can do, he returns to his home, knowing his wife would be frightfully worried about him.

Then, LO AND BEHOLD.... he gets a phone call at 4.17 AM.. the ambulance wasn't there when he left, nor the police, just the security guard and his wife, and the call is from the security guard. . at 4.17am.. telling Dr Stipp that OSCARS lawyer will be ringing him quite soon.

when did Oscar ring his lawyer ? pretty quickly, ey?

 

[aa9511]

He went to call Security and heard ANOTHER three loud bangs. Thought there was more shooting and told wife to get out of the way.

Oh my.

Well things are getting a little jumbled up here, now aren't they?

 

[minor4th]

BBM - not all the witnesses. Dr Stipp said he heard 2 voices intermingled. I don't believe he's backtracked on that at all. What's your opinion on him hearing a second voice at the same time as the other? I'm curious to know how it's possible to hear 2 distinct voices if there is only one.

Yes, but he heard those screams AFTER the gunshots, and Reeva could not have been screaming after the gunshots. He's interpreting what he heard, but his interpretation cannot be reconciled with the evidence.