Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[BritsKate]

Scared of him snapping at her. That is a far cry from being scared that he would physically harm her.

I can't, in good conscience, even begin to minimize this evidence.

That isn't what she said, however. She stated she was scared of him and how he snapped at her and how he would act towards her.

My ex never hit me. Not once. But eventually one look was all it took to make me quite literally shake with fear - just because I knew the possibility existed that I could always be hurt worse. Threats, intimidation, manipulation, cajoling, belittling, mocking, gaslighting, etc. That's how psychological abuse works.

I very much doubt Reeva was simply scared he may mock her to death.

JMO

 

[loohoo]

Is there a relationship that is not up and down?

I can't agree that these texts reveal a relationship that simply has its "ups and downs" - these are suggestive of frequent psychological manipulation that comes from a place of jealousy and control. OP snapping at her to "stop chewing gum", mocking her accent, loudly criticizing her in front of others, etc, to the point that it obviously was affecting her self-esteem and causing her great unhappiness... all of these things are seemingly minor occurrences that come from a deeply unhealthy place. Especially at three months into the relationship...

Having been in a similarly manipulative/psychologically distressing relationship, I can see all too clearly OP's true nature. It starts with nitpicking and badgering, then leads to full on emotional and often physical abuse. I feel very, very sad for Reeva. No one should be made to feel such sadness and criticism at any point in a relationship, particularly not at a stage that is supposed to be pure bliss.

 

[zwiebel]

It's a bit sad really. OP is the one on trial, and here prosecution has brought up msgs talking about her drug use and denials that she was ever a stripper. Female victims so often seem to have their history dragged into the mix somehow when they are the victims of violence.....

I suppose if prosecution didn't mention it, defence would have done though....

 

[kaos]

I didn't hear anything about flying in rages when he doesnt get his way - it sounded more like he pouts and acts moody when he's unhappy.

And I thought it was Oscar complaining about Reeva using drugs, but either way that has nothing to do with murder.

Samantha Taylor described him screaming at her on numerous occasions.

My error if it was him complaining about her so apologies if that's the case.

 

[Trooper]

Apparently FM did say 90% of the msgs were normal and loving. I didn't hear that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/OscarTrial199

I am sure I didn't hear it, ZWI..but hey.. he did speak at a rapid pace.

 

[Trooper]

It's a bit sad really. OP is the one on trial, and here prosecution has brought up msgs talking about her drug use and denials that she was ever a stripper. Female victims so often seem to have their history dragged into the mix somehow when they are the victims of violence.....

I suppose if prosecution didn't mention it, defence would have done though....

I understood it that Oscar was accusing her of being a stripper, and a ho..

not that she in fact was..

Oscars abuse is so unoriginal. so common. so unimaginative.. its lower high school stuff. the jerk.

 

[MeeBee]

I am sure I didn't hear it, ZWI..but hey.. he did speak at a rapid pace.

He said it, I distinctly remember him saying it just before they adjourned.

 

[minor4th]

Yes, but they usually are in abusive relationships. That's what keeps pulling them back into it, especially if they believe they're still in love and want to make it work. Besides, how hard do you think it would have been for RS to admit that SA's "golden boy" was so tarnished that she needed, let alone have gotten, a restraining order against him?

What? There has been absolutely no indication that a restraining order was warranted at all. There's no allegation that he was abusive or threatening - only that he acted like a big baby

 

[DebinGA]

I have to say that Reeva was very accommodating to OPs needs at that party. She seems like she would have made a fantastic partner for someone to share life with.

Conversely OP seems the exact opposite, not concerned with his partner's needs AT ALL!

RS mentioned OP's "tantrums in front of people," suggesting a pattern of acting out in public. How odd for someone like OP whose endorsements require a stellar public image.

 

[kaos]

He said it, I distinctly remember him saying it just before they adjourned.

I heard him say it too. Think it was one of the last questions put to him.

 

[MeeBee]

I understood it that Oscar was accusing her of being a stripper, and a ho..

not that she in fact was..

Oscars abuse is so unoriginal. so common. so unimaginative.. its lower high school stuff. the jerk.

He didn't accuse her of that or call her those words. They were discussing some sort of drug use that he found distasteful and she offered that bit up.

 

[minor4th]

I can't, in good conscience, even begin to minimize this evidence.

That isn't what she said, however. She stated she was scared of him and how he snapped at her and how he would act towards her.

My ex never hit me. Not once. But eventually one look was all it took to make me quite literally shake with fear - just because I knew the possibility existed that I could always be hurt worse. Threats, intimidation, manipulation, cajoling, belittling, mocking, gaslighting, etc. That's how psychological abuse works.

I very much doubt Reeva was simply scared he may mock her to death.

JMO

Ok, for the sake of discussion, let's assume he was psychologically abusive. That does not indicate that he murdered her.

 

[sorrell skye]

So Oscar was moody and didn't behave well, or didn't behave the way Reeva liked, on some occasions. He accused her of flirting - and maybe she was or maybe she wasn't. He criticized things about her that she got sad about.

I don't see the real relevance of these messages though, other than to show that they had arguments and issues with each other.

He was ABUSIVE to her! In one of her messages, she said she was afraid of him.

To minimize his behavior by saying that he was "moody" or "didn't behave well" or "didn't behave the way Reeva liked" (oh - that last one, BTW - a classic tactic of the abuser blaming the victim) - is a flagrant dismissal of the abuse women throughout the world suffer each & every day.

His abuse of Reeva prior to him killing her is completely 100% relevant.

I have no words right now.

 

[Cherwell]

Apparently FM did say 90% of the msgs were normal and loving. I didn't hear that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/OscarTrial199

The tweet says 90% of messages were "normal, often loving".

That's what you'd expect though. 10% otherwise is more than enough for me.

 

[Trooper]

He didn't accuse her of that or call her those words. They were discussing some sort of drug use that he found distasteful and she offered that bit up.

I disagree.. I'll stick to my interpretation. it fits the evidence .

 

[minor4th]

I'm not trying to minimize the messages, but I'm not trying to maximize them either.

 

[G.bng]

All I can really say is if we're seeing evidence of controlling, jealous temper just 3 months into their relationship - I have NO problem believing he deliberately and willfully murdered her, screams or silence.

The overwhelming majority of abusive or controlling relationships form a pattern, especially in the beginning. The abusive or controlling person seeks to make the relationship as intensely close as possible. They whisk the victim off their feet. Abuse, even psychological, is usually slower to evolve. It begins as covert and insidious, with the abuser attempting to establish control over the victim. Otherwise many victims would leave the relationship early on - and the most dangerous time for a domestic violence victim to become a homicide victim is when he/she IS leaving...

Which, in turn, begs the question...had she had enough?

I agree with all you say except that he "willfully" murdered her. I personally think if he did know Reeva was behind the door then it would have been in a jealous rage with things getting out of hand. Maybe she wouldn't open the toilet door and he shot at it to open it... I tend that way. And I do recall hearing something about Reeva's ex texting her that night but of course if that's all the phone evidence then it cannot be correct.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Which, again, is not particularly shocking given Oscar's history. If we see messages from on that fateful day then I think we'd be moving closer to pertinent evidence.

Rumour in the early days on the documentary had it that the Tropika show was about to be aired and Reeva was concerned as she had been kissing a fellow contestant. Her friend was worried they would show it and OP would get mad. I think if they can link that and show in evidence OP is pretty doomed.
Isn't it awful to think it was possibly all instigated by OP's insecurities and jealousy. BUT does that in turn make it a crime of passion and not premeditated? Anyone know?

 

[MeeBee]

He was ABUSIVE to her! In one of her messages, she said she was afraid of him.

To minimize his behavior by saying that he was "moody" or "didn't behave well" or "didn't behave the way Reeva liked" (oh - that last one, BTW - a classic tactic of the abuser blaming the victim) - is a flagrant dismissal of the abuse women throughout the world suffer each & every day.

His abuse of Reeva prior to him killing her is completely 100% relevant.

I have no words right now.

I have told my husband he scared me. Not because I was scared of him or scared of him hitting me. He'd never lay a finger on me. But because sometimes he'd get so uncharacteristically angry and fly off the handle that it was scary and I would let him know so he would check himself. This seems a common thing to say to men. That's how I took it when she said "you scare me," or whatever.

 

[MeeBee]

I disagree.. I'll stick to my interpretation. it fits the evidence .

That's not the evidence. Oscar did not call her those words. She said, "I'm not a stripper or a ho" while they were having a discussion about her drug use. That is simply what it said.