Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[Viper]

Can anyone remember the text where OP is asking her not to tell anyone because 'Darren has taken the blame', and Reeva texts back she doesn't 'know what you are talking about', and a smiley?

How did Reeva find out about that - she wasn't there in the restaurant that day of the shooting. Had OP told her earlier, and was regretting it? Or had he heard that someone else had told her about it? It's all a bit odd.

Maybe someone else had called her those names and she was upset he didn't stand up to them?

More likely given what we know is that OP did use that comparison of her directed at her. Reeva is known as a Social Butterfly, very friendly with the people around her. OP obviously was obsessed and jealous of any man she spoke with or touched on the arm, even a family member! So much more likely that she was trying to correct his childish mentality and get him to treat her with respect like the Lady that she was deserved to be treated.

 

[Really?]

No, not too harsh for a viper... ; - )

but in case you have me wrong, I am absolutely not one of those who argue this is "culpable homicide", indeed I have consistently argued that imo and according to SA law it is murder even if OP genuinely thought he was shooting at a door behind which was a burglar... unless of course they can prove he didn't intend to kill the burglar, or that he could not have known that shooting into the door of such a tiny space was likely to kill or seriously injure any person inside... yeah, and of course pigs have wings!

BBM..............exactly !!!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

With Africa not having a problem with hearsay maybe the Ex will be a witness and tell us what he and she talked about the day before.

.... remembered being slightly concerned when Pistorius called Steenkamp’s phone twice only 20 minutes into the meeting. "I said, 'Is everything okay. I mean he's phoned twice already.' I asked her that question,” L. said. "She said, 'There's nothing wrong.'"..


Unfortunately Reeva hasn't told the truth about this difficult relationship to her important friends, I think.

 

[kittychi]

I found something interesting at this link:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-recap-3276636#ixzz2wuD1L3xl

7:59 am "On February 21 this year there was another incident.
They woke up with people arguing. She said they were not getting up this time.
He went out this time and closed the balcony doors, going to bed.
Neighbours asked if they could hear the commotion but they said that they had chosen to ignore it at that stage.
Neighbours said there were people in the garden.
In the early hours of March 18 they woke up from screams. They heard a male screaming at a higher and lower pitch.
"I was completely annoyed because it was half three in the morning".
She saw men standing in the garden and "made a comment to them" then went back into the house."

Could that have been Roux's voice experiment from Oscar's home?

Kept reading and answered my own question, LOL:
8:57 am
Oldwadge (we've just been told this spelling is correct) now asking Ms Stipp about the sound test carried out on 21st Feb this year.
She said she couldn't distinguish between male and female voices then.
She also says though, the sounds were not as "clear" as the night of Reeva's shooting in 2013.

 

[steveml]

Before people go off the deep claiming OP has abused and controlled Reeva, we have yet to see something substantial. From a guy's point of view I think some of the women on here would find it deeply offensive if a woman had sent a couple of text messages of a similar ilk, and I started labeling them before anything had been proven.

As I mentioned earlier, I've had more severe messages from my girlfriend on the occasion we've fell out - and she's certainly not controlling or abusive.

 

[james83]

I think it's very very very likely that the root cause of Reeva being killed was jealousy.
JMO.

 

[steveml]

I think it's very very very likely that the root cause of Reeva being killed was jealousy.
JMO.

Could be. Do you have anyone specific in mind?

 

[TorisMom003]

The texts themselves were entered in as evidence. People can read them for themselves and make their own decisions about how much weight should be applied to them. The texts, IMO, do show a controlling OP. Reeva herself, in the texts, stated that she was afraid of OP. Since the man is on trial for killing Reeva, then it is not a stretch to see the texts for what they appear to be.

MOO

 

[Rumpole]

So Oscar was moody and didn't behave well, or didn't behave the way Reeva liked, on some occasions. He accused her of flirting - and maybe she was or maybe she wasn't. He criticized things about her that she got sad about.

I don't see the real relevance of these messages though, other than to show that they had arguments and issues with each other.

I am uncomfortable hearing people's private message read out at all.

I see a grubby little man reading a (dead) woman's private "diary" and another grubby man egging him on and salivating over it.

I accept that phone calls and messages might contain items of specific evidence. There are times when the evidential value overrides privacy... maybe there will be some of that here. But reading out these private conversations just to make a general point about the relationship being not always loving is pushing it. Especially in the light of the Dude conceding that most ("90%") of messages ARE in fact loving and so the messages as a whole support OP's contention that it was a loving relationship. This feels nasty and grubby... intrusion. Unless there are specific details revealed I give it no weight as evidence.

 

[foxbluff]

Wow... I just finished reading all the posts from our super WS Court Reporters. And although some of it was painful to read, I wouldn't have wanted to miss a word!

My sincere thanks to all those reporting (or simply adding much needed comic relief) with particular thanks to Zwiebel and Trooper.


My opinion of today's testimony is:

:drumroll: Advantage: state

and OP's future: :jail:

 

[Rumpole]

I cringe at the thought of the texts between my hubby and i being read aloud in a courtroom. I hope they dont get into anything intimate.

Exactly...

And media lapping it up... feeding vicarious pleasure in the revelation of people's private intimate details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egTJEGrhPTg

 

[steveml]

So having labelled OP controlling to the point of premeditated murder from his messages, and having him guilty as charged half way through the trial, what's the motive?

It better be good, otherwise this guy is simply on a murder charge.

 

[james83]

Could be. Do you have anyone specific in mind?

Well jealousy was clearly an issue for Oscar in those messages, in fact one of them has the line "yet you get upset if I mention ONE funny story with a long term boyfriend".
We know Reeva had a coffee with an ex 2 days before she died, so seeing those messages and knowing that information, what would you think Oscar's reaction would have been to that innocent coffee?.
JMO she was killed by Oscar during a jealous rage is the likely scenario IMO.

 

[zwiebel]

So we now know and have quite sound evidence for;

Reeva being 'scared' of OP.

Reeva being 'scared out of her mind' by OP.

Reeva calling her mom to tell her OP was 'scaring' her by the way he drove.

OP apologising for his unreasonable behaviour and so admitting it, while blaming it on outside factors.

Sam Taylor witnessing screaming, sudden temper outbursts by OP.

Two friends (Brit witness not called so far) witnessing OP deliberately firing a gun off in a restaurant crowded with people who might have been killed. One person sustaining injuries from it, and a ballistics expert testifying that OP almost certainly had to have fired it deliberately ( if he knew anything about guns). The injury inflicted on a young, strong, good looking boxer whose very existence may have challenged the insecure OP.

OP attempting to lie and conspire to obstruct justice about that incident. Persuading four people to lie, including Reeva who was not even there.

A weapon training witness testifying OP did know all about guns.

OP firing out of a sunroof, following an altercation with authorities who quesioned his behaviour. In a way he must have known might have killed the occupants of the vehicle. (according to ballisics expert again).

Evidence of a growing obsession with deadly weapons designed to kill, and how to fire them. As well as purchasing ammunition no longer commercially produced, and specifically designed to kill, not injure.

OP demonstrating willingness to break the law to indulge his obsession, as he did not have a license when her made the purchase order for weapons.

Evidence of increasing paranoia ( almost shooting the washing machine)

Evidence of willingness to appropriate blame to 'others' or 'other factors' for his own dangerous actions.

Evidence of an ability to think very fast to cover up his wrongdoings (restaurant, sunroof, text to Reeva).

Some evidence of a disintegrating mental state, with the house falling into disrepair, despite (probably) OP having funds to maintain it.

What is missing in my opinion, so far, is any evidence he was willing to kill someone who thwarted/challenged him. Apart from the restaurant, where I think there is a good case that he deliberately attempted to injure the young boxer.

 

[Really?]

Hopefully that shouldn't need to happen. The mod request is really very simple. People should not be trying to alter other people's opinions. Everything on this forum here is speculation and opinion, and nobody has the right to claim that they are right.

ahem......I may say I am right and by golly mean it.....j/k

seriously though, I think it is meant more in regards to a quoting.....then including words like......

you your personalizing

:twocents:

 

[james83]

Ask yourself why Reeva had to put her feelings in messages and not face to face?.


"I'm scared of you sometimes, of how you snap at me,"

 

[Feynman]

excerpted quote:

no that is incorrect it was Mrs Burgers husband who thought he recognized Oscars voice .. the Stipps didn't know Oscar , knew he lived on the same estate but had no clue who he was..

Come on gang. It was not the Stipps, it was not the Burgers, it was Estelle van der Merwe's husband who recognized OP's voice. Estelle vdM heard "loud voices" as in a "fight" during the 2 - 3 am period. Mostly a woman's voice. Then she heard four loud bangs. Then crying. She thought it was a woman crying, but her husband said no, that's Oscar (he had talked to OP before).

 

[zwiebel]

We need OP threatening to kill someone. That might seal it.

 

[steveml]

Well jealousy was clearly an issue for Oscar in those messages, in fact one of them has the line "yet you get upset if I mention ONE funny story with a long term boyfriend".
We know Reeva had a coffee with an ex 2 days before she died, so seeing those messages and knowing that information, what would you think Oscar's reaction would have been to that innocent coffee?.
JMO she was killed by Oscar during a jealous rage is the likely scenario IMO.

OK, fair point. However, Reeva specifically mentioned he's had loads of girlfriends, surely he must have come across potential jealousy issues many many times before. Why Reeva? Why none of all his other girlfriends?

The reply can't just be 'she was the unlucky one'. What's the motive?

 

[strydohj]

With Africa not having a problem with hearsay maybe the Ex will be a witness and tell us what he and she talked about the day before.

To the best of my knowledge hearsay is also not admissible evidence in South Africa unless the person who made the statement that was overheard is in court
(e.g.the accused or other witness that can testify) to affirm or dismiss the hearsay claim. That is how I understand a recent explanation of the addmissability of hearsay evidence in South Africa.