Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Val1]

The state's case was not completely coherent, I think.

I have just remembered something I wanted to say about the food - not sure if't been covered as I haven't caught up yet.

Reeva was supposed to be cooking a meal that day but the only food in her stomach was veg and whitish substance - probably cheese. If she had eaten any protein like meat or fish, that would have been there too, as it takes longer to digest.

So did she cook a meal at all for the two of them? Bits of cheese and veg doesn't seem like much of a meal for non-veggies on Valentine's Day. She was so slim it is hard to think she may have eaten a full meal and then followed up with a midnight snack.

There is something a little odd there. I wonder if the meal failed to happen because of a row, or going to bed, and they both ended up just having a snack late at night?

Didn't OP come back after some friend's realtor party he had been at most of the afternoon?

He'd probably already eaten what he was allowed for the day and after all the msg's back and forth between them, telling her she was welcome to stay the night, her offering to cook the day or so before and what he was allowed etc. that could certainly have started an argument. Especially after RS had commented on her facebook or some medium like that how important Valentine's supposedly was to OP and all her running around to get a nice gift together for him, then no evidence of any kind of gift for her from him.

 

[soozieqtips]

12.57pm GMT

Journalists in court in Pretoria are reporting that one of Pistorius' legal team, Brian Webber, when asked whether the athlete would be testifying, said: "We have no choice … it's a question of when."

He added it was "likely" that Pistorius would be first to give evidence for the defence.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/25/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-trial-day-14

 

[MeeBee]

Not trying to be contrary here, just worried I could make a mistake, but can anyone explain what passive-aggressive posts are like ? I can only really recall the term with Ceaser (the dog whisperer) which I watched snippets of a couple of times and I didn't understand it then either... or maybe I just wasn't paying attention try to relate it with his methods as I didn't find them useful for our very obedient dog.

It's sort of making a mean, disparaging or insulting comment to someone in a snarky or sarcastic, mostly off-hand but obvious way. Like, addressing irritation or anger with someone in a passive manner. It's often used as a way around here to skirt around the "no personalization" rule.

ETA: Also, Passive aggressivism is more about actions than words. On the internet it has a different meaning I suppose. And I find it really funny that a dog was described as "passive aggressive." I mean...he's a dog, lol.

 

[G.bng]

Few tweets from Harding talking with OP and legal team outside courtroom

andrew harding ‏@BBCAndrewH 12 mins​

​

Quick chat with OP. Asked him if he is ready to give evidence."it's a tough time." Asked about case so far. "We've got a lot ahead of us."
andrew harding ‏@BBCAndrewH 12 mins
OscarPistorius very muted. Speaking in almost a whisper.
andrew harding ‏@BBCAndrewH 7 mins
OscarPistorius lawyer says "it's likely" Pistorius will give evidence first.
andrew harding ‏@BBCAndrewH 7 mins
Brian Webber confirms "we have no choice" to put Pistorius on stand but "it's a question of when."​

 

[Rumpole]

So you're claiming OP was screaming like a banshee while shooting RS to death? Is that a new technique to scare "intruders" away?

No.

I think he wailed and screamed in EXTREME emotional distress after he realized what he had done. I actually have no problem believing that. I think comments about "girlie voice" (not from the poster quoted in the message) etc are misguided. Perhaps people lack imagination and any level of empathy for OP at the point in time that he saw Reeva's horrific injuries and realized what he had done.

 

[Carol70]

Roux now saying he wants judges' indulgence to see which state witnesses would be 'willing to consult with us'.

Judge: Are you talking about witnesses not used by state?

She asks Nel and he agrees.

So that means Roux gets to thru entire list of state witnesses not called, and call them himself if he wants.

Court adjourned until March 27th?

Oh LOLOL, sure Hilton Botha is thrilled with this news!

 

[steveml]

Didn't OP come back after some friend's realtor party he had been at most of the afternoon?

He'd probably already eaten what he was allowed for the day and after all the msg's back and forth between them, telling her she was welcome to stay the night, her offering to cook the day or so before and what he was allowed etc. that could certainly have started an argument. Especially after RS had commented on her facebook or some medium like that how important Valentine's supposedly was to OP and all her running around to get a nice gift together for him, then no evidence of any kind of gift for her from him.

There may well be evidence of a gift from OP yet. It would damage prosecution's case to confirm that, hence there being no mention of one.

 

[zwiebel]

But even if Nel is waiting to turn all his guns on OP, it is still the state's job to present their case effectively. It just seems to have got lost in all the details, somewhere, if you know what I mean?

Most trials on WS you could jump in late, and get a clear idea quite quickly of what the state is trying to say and the defence is defending against. And a clear idea too, of why the state think what they do. There were early interviews with various people who said police thought they knew from day one what had happened and exactly how the killing played out.

If they did, I don't think that clarity came across. Blood splatters have been left unexplained and the only story of those events - OP's - falls in with what was found; he shot Reeva then carried her downstairs. Sigh.

We have the neighbour who heard a row, possibly from OP's house. And all the neighbours who heard screams. That seems to be the sum of the premeditation argument for Reeva's shooting? I don't think the judge will take the other gun firings as any sign of premeditation. The opposite in fact. They show OP as wildly impulsive with a gun.

 

[steveml]

It's sort of making a mean, disparaging or insulting comment to someone in a snarky or sarcastic, mostly off-hand but obvious way. Like, addressing irritation or anger with someone in a passive manner. It's often used as a way around here to skirt around the "no personalization" rule.

That's correct, and in internet forums can often be determined by capitalization (shouting) and the use of exclamation marks unnecessarily.

Basic etiquette really. Speak to others via text, as if you were face to face.

 

[Estelle]

I expected a forensic psychologist to have been called by Nel to talk about abusive relationships and domestic violence. Can Nel call one later?

 

[MeeBee]

That's correct, and in internet forums can often be determined by capitalization (shouting) and the use of exclamation marks unnecessarily.

Basic etiquette really. Speak to others via text, as if you were face to face.

And this little guy -----> :seeya:

 

[MeeBee]

I expected a forensic psychologist to have been called by Nel to talk about abusive relationships and domestic violence. Can Nel call one later?

That's something that's more for rebuttal, I would think.

 

[Rumpole]

There may well be evidence of a gift from OP yet. It would damage prosecution's case to confirm that, hence there being no mention of one.

Heads up.... somebody keeps changing your avatar pic

FWIW... I like the Colombo.... love the character.

 

[steveml]

And this little guy -----> :seeya:

Thank you. The little men really help as well :smile:

 

[Val1]

No.

I think he wailed and screamed in EXTREME emotional distress after he realized what he had done. I actually have no problem believing that. I think comments about "girlie voice" (not from the poster quoted in the message) etc are misguided. Perhaps people lack imagination and any level of empathy for OP at the point in time that he saw Reeva's horrific injuries and realized what he had done.

So you believe OP had already killed her in the first bangs and then he screamed like crazy that sounded to five independent witnesses, from four? differently locations, like a woman screaming for her life, all before he'd been able to break into the toilet room to see what he'd done? Ok.....

 

[Rumpole]

I expected a forensic psychologist to have been called by Nel to talk about abusive relationships and domestic violence. Can Nel call one later?

Maybe Alyce La Violette?

That would help.

 

[steveml]

Heads up.... somebody keeps changing your avatar pic

FWIW... I like the Colombo.... love the character.

One of my faves. I've always had the impression that he smells a bit tho.

It was a little avatar experiment to pass a bit of time during the case. I'll probably stick with this one now.

 

[zwiebel]

Nobody ever mentioned OP vomiting at the scene of the crime. It is odd that he only seems to get that spontaneous, visceral reaction to blood with pictures in a courtroom, and not in real life.

 

[Viper]

This is so confusing to me. My dad was an attorney and I grew up watching trials and have continued to follow them for years now. And I have rarely seen such a haphazard and weak climax to a state's case. It is hard to explain. :frown:

I think at lot of people here at WS feel that way, probably because we wanted answers to the thousands of questions that were asked here for the past year.

Many people will list out what was proven or what was not, but to better understand the basic principles of what we just saw the State do:

OP has already admitted to wanting to intentionally kill a person, he is just arguing that he made an error as to which person it was that he killed as a result, but he wanted to kill a person, he did kill a person, and that is Murder.

The premeditation was what we witnessed from all of the "a woman screaming and then gunshots" witnesses, along with the issues about how he mistreated Reeva and that she was actually scared of him at times. All of that goes against his story and tells the court that he knew it was Reeva he was killing, so premeditation.

As many have noted the Murder charge is what he is facing, Premeditation is added because it was premeditated and because it should get him a longer sentence than the 25 year mandatory minimum.

All of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Val1]

Heads up.... somebody keeps changing your avatar pic

FWIW... I like the Colombo.... love the character.

Lol, thank goodness for wiki... I always get Robert Blake and Peter Falk mixed up... that would have been just too weird and yes, I used to love Columbo in the day too.