Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[minor4th]

I'm curious about something and I hope that if/when OP takes the stand and is under cross exam that it is cleared up for me.

Mrs. Stipp's testimony was that when her husband (Dr. Stipp) returned home from OP's house after doing what he could to try and help (not knowing that it was in fact OP that he had seen), that he told her that a man who had large muscles (or something to that effect) and tattoos on his back had shot his girlfriend. Now those tattoos on OP's back would not be visible with a shirt on. The pictures taken of OP afterwards in the garage show that there was no blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms as if he had in fact had a shirt on. So how did OP manage to carry a bleeding (and according to him, dying) Reeva downstairs without getting any blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms? And if he did in fact get blood on his chest, shoulders and upper arms as well as his lower arms, hands and legs then why did he clean himself up removing only the blood from his chest, shoulders, upper arms and hands?

I hope that makes sense.

Van Rensberg said that Oscar never had a shirt on the entire time from when he they arrived until he was arrested.

 

[minor4th]

Sorry, I should have been clearer: I meant why would he be screaming in terror beforehand?

Screaming in terror after realizing he shot and killed Reeva and not an intruder.

 

[lisasalinger]

Screaming in terror after realizing he shot and killed Reeva and not an intruder.

BBM

A big problem though is that he didn't know he had shot her until he broke the door down, according to him. Looking at the timeline that I posted a few pages back, there was potentially up to 15 minutes of time in between bangs.

How can you explain his immediate grief-stricken response after firing the first rounds somewhere near 3am? It doesn't fit his story and why did it take him 15 minutes to break down the door and 19 minutes to call Stander (again, all according to their story interjected in to the testimony & reports)?

 

[Suthrnqt]

BBM

Yes - the instinct to survive is extremely powerful - as is the instinct to ensure that your loved ones are safe.

A few years ago, my youngest daughter (a teen at the time) and I were home when someone tried to break into our house early in the morning. I grabbed the phone and dialed 911 while at the same time waking my daughter. I wanted to ensure that if the intruder succeeded in breaking in (he was trying to break down the front door), my daughter would be awake and alert so that she could flee or fight. I didn't even have to think about it - my instinct was to make sure my daughter was safe.

Per Samantha Taylor's testimony (OP's former girlfriend), OP's historical pattern had been to awaken her and consult with her when he heard noises in the night that he thought might be an intruder. She testified to 2 separate instances when he had done so.

On the morning that OP shot and killed Reeva, he didn't even check to see where she was (according to his version), nor did he consult with her regarding the noise he allegedly heard (as he'd done with ST in the past), let alone ensure that Reeva was awake, safe, and ready to flee or fight.

At a glance, OP's version sounds plausible. But when placed in context of his historical pattern (see above reference), and when scrutinized beneath the light of the State's evidence, I personally find his version to be less credible than the State's case.

Also, just how big is this bed he shared with Reeva? Because I just don't understand how he didn't know she wasn't in the bed? If he didn't feel her next to him, wouldn't he have seen her or not?? There was enough light in the room to go out on the balcony & retrieve the fans. Right? Please help me understand. Thnx

 

[minor4th]

BBM

A big problem though is that he didn't know he had shot her until he broke the door down, according to him. Looking at the timeline that I posted a few pages back, there was potentially up to 15 minutes of time in between bangs.

How can you explain his immediate grief-stricken response after firing the first rounds somewhere near 3am? It doesn't fit his story and why did it take him 15 minutes to break down the door and 19 minutes to call Stander (again, all according to their story interjected in to the testimony & reports)?

He realized she wasn't in bed and figured out that he probably shot Reeva

 

[Val1]

I think the bathroom window was open and therefore there may have been some ambient light. During the fight or flight response the pupils widen to enable better night vision, which also may have been a factor. He was also a practiced marksman, and I doubt the pattern of shots would have been difficult to achieve.

Apparently OP's night vision is not that great, he claimed he didn't notice/see that RS was not in the bed a mere foot or two away from him when he brought in the fans, before he closed the patio doors, blinds and curtains... even though he said he had spoken to her moments before. Oh but wait, which was it, he'd just spoken to her or they were fast asleep?

On top of that, he then moved to the other side of the bed to grab his firearm still without confirming that RS was there and safe and instead of grabbing her quietly and making their way out of the home he chose to leave her unprotected after alerting the imagined intruders to their presence by shouting "get out of my house Reeva call the police!"? Gee, that phrase could even be the truth, depending on how it was said/shouted. Let's see how that changes the mood, "get out of my house Reeva! (go ahead) call the police!" (bracketed part mine)

 

[lisasalinger]

He realized she wasn't in bed and figured out that he probably shot Reeva

1. That still doesn't fit. The screaming was immediate. He stated he backed away from the bathroom keeping an eye on the door, went to the bedroom and didn't see her in bed, then went back to the bathroom and the door was locked, etc, etc. That is not immediate.

2. Why did her not being in bed equal her being in the bathroom. He just shot 4 times in the bathroom believing with all his heart that an intruder was in there, yelling to her to call the police... any logical person hearing all of that would have high-tailed it out of that room! She wouldn't be laying in bed at that point.

3. Why did it take almost 15 minutes to break down the door if he was so anguished?

4. Why did it take almost 19 minutes to call Stander if the situation was so urgent?

 

[Feynman]

She said she heard a woman screaming and her husband told her it was in fact OP screaming. Roux didn't say it was OP.

No, Merwe never said "screaming". She heard loud voices, almost exclusively a woman's voice, as in a fight. That's from 2-3 am. Then four loud bangs. Then crying. She thought the crying was the woman crying. Her husband, who had talked with OP before, said it was OP crying.

 

[lisasalinger]

Also, just how big is this bed he shared with Reeva? Because I just don't understand how he didn't know she wasn't in the bed? If he didn't feel her next to him, wouldn't he have seen her or not?? There was enough light in the room to go out on the balcony & retrieve the fans. Right? Please help me understand. Thnx

Here ya go. Also, don't forget - the duvet was on the floor when the police arrived. Therefore, there was no duvet on the bed at the time to "hide" Reeva. It should have been clear as day to him that she wasn't there.

 

[lisasalinger]

Hmm.. I wonder if the blood spatter found on the duvet, the bedroom wall just to the left of the headboard and near the light switch are from Oscar when he went back upstairs (when Stander and Stipp were outside). At that time, his hands were not washed yet.

Maybe hiding/changing evidence in the room?

 

[minor4th]

1. That still doesn't fit. The screaming was immediate. He stated he backed away from the bathroom keeping an eye on the door, went to the bedroom and didn't see her in bed, then went back to the bathroom and the door was locked, etc, etc. That is not immediate.

2. Why did her not being in bed equal her being in the bathroom. He just shot 4 times in the bathroom believing with all his heart that an intruder was in there, yelling to her to call the police... any logical person hearing all of that would have high-tailed it out of that room! She wouldn't be laying in bed at that point.

3. Why did it take almost 15 minutes to break down the door if he was so anguished?

4. Why did it take almost 19 minutes to call Stander if the situation was so urgent?

I dont think the screaming was immediate. The accounts of this have differed and evolved.

I also dont think it was 19 minutes - I don't believe the Stipp's clocks were as fast as they say. They couldnt have been actually because Stander called security at 3:16:51 and heard the second bangs at that time - and Mrs. Stipp said she heard the bangs at exactly 3:17. So their clocks were about accurate.

 

[Feynman]

Yes but not the arguing voice. She didn't indicate that the two sounds came from the same place.

It's a strong indication that it was from the same place however. She's a good witness IMO. Unless Roux can pull some loud 2-3 am voices out of his magic hat from elsewhere at Silverwoods, Merwe's testimony kind of hangs out there like a big matzah ball (with apologies to Seinfeld).

 

[minor4th]

It's a strong indication that it was from the same place however. She's a good witness IMO. Unless Roux can pull some loud 2-3 am voices out of his magic hat from elsewhere at Silverwoods, Merwe's testimony kind of hangs out there like a big matzah ball (with apologies to Seinfeld).

I did not get that from her. I understood that the arguing voice and the shots were not connected as having come from the same place. I might go listen to her again (and might not lol).

I would not be surprised if Roux pulled that out of his magic hat. I would also not be surprised if he pulled out a couple of close neighbors who heard nothing of the sort - along with security who patrolled the area during that time.

 

[minor4th]

Either the forum or my computer is doing whacky things - I'm out for now ..

 

[luvmygarden]

I cannot wait for Nel to cross examine Oscar! His story will either hang together because it's true or it will crumble. Whatever happens, I think this will be one of the most important aspects of the trial and hopefully it will reveal once and for all whether Oscar's account is true or fabricated.

And Nel will have to be as intense as defense was with every statement and thought OP utters. This will be interesting. Would the defense have any ear witnesses that weren't called by prosecutors?? That will be interesting as well. The experts can very well have opposing opinions that would be normal but it will be interesting to hear their opinions too.

 

[Val1]

But if the crying was heard after the two sets of bangs then Reeva was already dead. So it had to have been Oscar.

I'll have to go back and check but I'm pretty sure she had testifed to a woman screaming and then when that stopped the crying was heard, at which point her husband said it was OP.

 

[Val1]

Agreed. OP also claims that he went out on the balcony to retrieve the fan/s without his "legs" on. Yet he has "limited mobility" when it suits him without his "legs" on.

It takes him seconds to slip his prosthetics on and pull his pant leg over them... and yet although he claims his legs were right there where his gun was, he apparently felt empowered enough not to need them and the gun to go after intruders he now claims to have been terrified of? It's kinda smelly imo.

 

[Val1]

No, Merwe never said "screaming". She heard loud voices, almost exclusively a woman's voice, as in a fight. That's from 2-3 am. Then four loud bangs. Then crying. She thought the crying was the woman crying. Her husband, who had talked with OP before, said it was OP crying.

Was that the interpreter's interpretation of what Merwe's said or Merwe's own words in English(sorry I don't recall and haven't gone back to check just yet).

 

[MeeBee]

So if the witness heard the killer crying, and her husband identified the voice as that of the killer, and the same witness heard a man and a woman arguing for an hour beginning at 1:56 am, then this is further proof of OP's guilt. In fact it seals OP's guilt if Van der Merwe's testimony is accurate.

I'm not following this logic. The crying after the shots was identified. The arguing was not. Van der Merwe was adamant that she didn't know where it was coming from.

 

[MeeBee]

I'll have to go back and check but I'm pretty sure she had testifed to a woman screaming and then when that stopped the crying was heard, at which point her husband said it was OP.

I know she says she heard a woman screaming before the final bangs. But she heard a woman screaming after the shooting?