Trial Discussion Thread #17

[BritsKate]

Not been nit picky her but daughters don't tell there mothers everything so it may be that she was but didn't say anything to her mother ?
Some of her tweets infer she had some issues in previous relationships and the fact that she was just about to make a speech does indicate she may have .
Maybe it was emotional abuse not physical ?
Some victims of abuse feel embarrassed / ashamed to tell other people about it which is why it often has gone on for a long time .
This can be the case with lots of forms of bullying . My daughter was once being bullied at school . She had said nothing but fortunately her friend came and told me so I was able to have it dealt with . To this day I am still surprised that she had put up with it without speaking out to me or her teachers .

I agree - my mom was my best friend but she never knew the extent. I hid it from her deliberately. She knew my ex had a temper, but she never knew about the guns pulled on me or that he threatened to hit me almost daily. There was an immense shame that I'd gotten myself into such a mess. Others opinions of me never mattered nearly as much as what my mother thought of me.

Reeva did reach out to her mother about Oscar though...and it would also seem there may have been some isolation starting to take place in her relationship with Oscar as well.

Reeva was very close to her parents, but they never met Pistorius. Perhaps, tellingly, on the one and only occasion her mother, June, spoke to him, it was to issue a threat. Reeva had phoned from the athlete’s car in floods of tears: he was driving insanely fast and she was terrified.
‘I told her to give the phone to Oscar,’ says June. “I warned him that if he hurt my baby in any way, I would wipe him out. I know that sounds aggressive but I was desperate to keep Reeva safe. I couldn’t bear to think her life was in danger at his hands. He didn’t say very much, just “OK Mrs Steenkamp”.’

Read more: http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/lifes...pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-death#ixzz2xoO5Zdrs

What was Oscar like?

“Moody, I think. Very nice and charming to us when they started dating. Then he always came in to say hello. But when they began to date steadily, he just dropped her and picked her up. That’s not right. I call it respect. If you’re in a relationship and you pick up the ‘daughter’ in the house, at least come in and say hello.”

Cecil remembers their first date, shortly after she broke up with her former boyfriend.

“She went with Oscar to a sports-awards evening. And after that he wouldn’t leave her alone. He kept pestering her, phoning and phoning and phoning her.

“Oscar was hasty and impatient and very moody – that’s my impression of him.

“She told me he pushed her a bit into a corner. She felt caged in. I told her I would talk to him. I told him not to force himself on her. Back off.

He agreed, but his face showed me what he was thinking: ‘Oh, this guy is talking nonsense.’

He did cool down a bit. Then they started going out steadily, and she was more at his home.

“I once talked to her about Oscar’s moodiness. She didn’t answer me.”

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

 

[jay-jay]

Would Reeva really go to the trouble of locking the toilet door at 3:00 am for 30 seconds to pee in the dark?

Out of habit? Remember Reeva was a model and would've been out and about in public places or events quite a lot using public loos. (I personally think it was locked from the outside, but that's JMO)

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Well, it appears from the quote provided by Kate that the abuse was of a controlling/emotional nature so her mother may not have seen physical evidence, in that case.

Sorry not sure what your point is here .
With or without physical evidence of assault people do still get bullied and don't speak .
Abuse / bullying comes in many forms.
Think we should just beg to differ here thanks for your point of view

 

[jay-jay]

It's not a coincidence. He's planting an idea in people's heads without actually knowing if it's true. And it worked.

Reeva's mother said it was untrue that she had ever been in an abusive relationship and is unsure of how that rumor started.

Yes, it's annoying when these things keep going around and then become the truth, isn't it. I did read somewhere that it was not the case Reeva had been in an abusive relationship the other week though, so I was aware from that that it was just rumour that she had been in one .. but if I hadn't read that, and if I hadn't read this, then I would still be thinking that she had been in one.


Edited to say that I've just read K.T.'s Daily Mail link upthread which does now seem to show that Reeva had a previous abusive relationship, which she was due to talk about in a speech she was making about domestic abuse/violence.

 

[MeeBee]

Sorry not sure what your point is here .
With or without physical evidence of assault people do still get bullied and don't speak .
Abuse / bullying comes in many forms.
Think we should just beg to differ here thanks for your point of view

I realize emotional abuse is abuse and I am well acquainted with abuse in its many forms.

What I was saying was if the abuse was of an emotional/mental nature then there wouldn't be any physical scars to alert the mother to it and that may be why she didn't know.

 

[BritsKate]

Then it appears her mother simply may not have known.

But driving/speeding recklessly is not abuse. Neither is arguing.

As isolated incidents, I'd agree. However, reckless/fast driving with the intent to provoke fear is a very common tactic of abusers.

Emotional or psychological abuse

Threatening to hurt you in any way
Physical or social isolation (not allowing you to go out alone, have friends, or choose your own friends)
Extreme jealousy or possessiveness (“I can’t control my anger when I think of you with another man/woman”)
Threats of suicide (“I’ll kill myself if you ever talk to another man/woman”)
Intimidation or humiliation (Displaying weapons or making you look stupid in front of others)
Constantly insulting or criticizing you or calling you names (“You’re so stupid,” “You can’t do anything right”)
False accusations, blaming you for everything
Ignoring or ridiculing your needs
Lying or breaking promises, destroying your trust
Driving fast or recklessly just to scare you and laughing at your fear
Leaving you in a dangerous place
Refusing to help you when you’re sick or injured
Threatening to kill or injure your pets
Using your children as leverage or threatening to hurt them

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/citizen-awareness/domestic-violence.htm

 

[MeeBee]

Yes, it's annoying when these things keep going around and then become the truth, isn't it. I did read somewhere that it was not the case Reeva had been in an abusive relationship the other week though, so I was aware from that that it was just rumour that she had been in one .. but if I hadn't read that, and if I hadn't read this, then I would still be thinking that she had been in one.

Well, I don't really know what to think anymore. There's been so much rumor, conjecture, and straight up lies since this murder happened that it's hard to know what's true and what isn't anymore. I would like to know June's basis for saying her daughter had never been in an abusive previous relationship.

 

[MeeBee]

As isolated incidents, I'd agree. However, reckless/fast driving with the intent to provoke fear is a very common tactic of abusers.



http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/citizen-awareness/domestic-violence.htm

I think OP just liked to drive fast and was being an idiot. There are many, many stories of his reckless, macho driving and behavior.

 

[Really?]

Sorry I am a bit confused now . Which people that didn't know her have stated that she was abused ? We are just hypothesising here .
However we do know that her friends father had to speak to OP which is surprising considering the short length of their relationship .

Nov. 5th(?)......first date?....Dec...Jan......Feb 14th (Valentines Day.....yikes)

3 months.......every thing from glamorous parties...laid back casual affairs....vacations together....OP getting weirdly jealous during a laid back outdoor engagement party....for her friends.....making them leave the party early (humiliating her)........humiliating her at a formal glamorous event.......no gum chewing........., no ponytail....no "accents"....she toked one on a Caribbean Island loaded with Rastas.......what else did she do on that party island? He wanted to know.

I'm done....my head is spinnging..g...g..g !!

then...the relationship is over in an operatic ending.....classic.

RIP Reeva

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Well, I don't really know what to think anymore. There's been so much rumor, conjecture, and straight up lies since this murder happened that it's hard to know what's true and what isn't anymore. I would like to know June's basis for saying her daughter had never been in an abusive previous relationship.

I don't suppose there needs to be any basis for that statement other than she hadn't seen or heard any evidence of it so assumed it can't have happened I guess .
There have been many things written that are incorrect so it can be difficult to know what to believe . I don't know for a fact whether Reeva was ever abused or not but I don't think that just because her mother didn't know that means it didn't happen

 

[MeeBee]

I don't suppose there needs to be any basis for that statement other than she hadn't seen or heard any evidence of it so assumed it can't have happened I guess .
There have been many things written that are incorrect so it can be difficult to know what to believe . I don't know for a fact whether Reeva was ever abused or not but I don't think that just because her mother didn't know that means it didn't happen

Well, the mother had expressed, in her words, that it was just a rumor, so you can understand why I would think that.

 

[jay-jay]

Well, I don't really know what to think anymore. There's been so much rumor, conjecture, and straight up lies since this murder happened that it's hard to know what's true and what isn't anymore. I would like to know June's basis for saying her daughter had never been in an abusive previous relationship.

Me neither .. after having read K.T.'s Daily Mail link (and I tried reading that with a bit of scepticism, it being the DM an all ..! but it did sound fairly factual). But, to be honest, I don't think it has any bearing on the case itself whether she had previously been in an abusive relationship or not .. it's interesting to know just as background in regard to Reeva, but doesn't make a lot of difference as regards her relationship with OP. Even if she hadn't had a previous abusive relationship, I think she would've recognised when she was being treated badly by him, and taken him to task over it.

 

[MeeBee]

Me neither .. after having read K.T.'s Daily Mail link (and I tried reading that with a bit of scepticism, it being the DM an all ..! but it did sound fairly factual). But, to be honest, I don't think it has any bearing on the case itself whether she had previously been in an abusive relationship or not .. it's interesting to know just as background in regard to Reeva, but doesn't make a lot of difference as regards her relationship with OP. Even if she hadn't had a previous abusive relationship, I think she would've recognised when she was being treated badly by him, and taken him to task over it.

BBM: That is true.

 

[james83]

Right, if the balcony was open so the fans could blow the fresh air on to them and he brought them in he may have felt they didn't need to be open anymore. I can relate to that. If they were already plugged in he wouldn't need to search for the outlet.

So the fans were already on, he brings them in, there buzzing away next to him but he yet he still hears the bathroom window sliding open?.

 

[BritsKate]

First of all, although Reeva wasn't confrontational or argumentative as such, it's clear from her texts that she certainly didn't take too kindly to being treated badly (and quite rightly so) and she took OP to task over it every single time by the looks of it (and quite rightly so) .. and I imagine that something like those texts happened that night, where OP treated her badly once again and she stood up to him (which he clearly did not like her keep doing .. the impression I get was that she was becoming a bit of a thorn in his side because he didn't like being told what his faults were).

But, as regards to her not just getting up and leaving that night .. that's what people do in these kinds of relationships .. they stay on longer because they want to try and sort it out and if it takes all night then they will do it. Reeva seemed like the sort of person who would want to sort out their problems .. 'make it all better' .. it's clear that she loved him with all her heart so of course she wanted to try and make the relationship work. She always comes across as a very forgiving sort of person, and I suspect that this is what she did on a number of occasions when he treated her badly, she kept forgiving him, and trying to make the relationship work .. so that night was just yet another occasion where she may have been trying to do that .. and then instead of the argument being resolved, it just escalated. It was getting quite late in the day/night by the time I suspect the disagreement was brewing, and in SA I doubt it's a good thing for a woman to being driving about on the roads on her own at that time of night, so basically she was trapped there. Sadly, it turns out she was more in danger of her life in that house than she would've been out on the road.

RBBM

Remember too that according to OP his bedroom door was locked. Did Reeva has access to a key? She may have been trapped in more ways than one. I see her only escape routes being the balcony or the only other area where she could put a locked door between him and herself.

 

[MeeBee]

So the fans were already on, he brings them in, there buzzing away next to him but he yet he still hears the bathroom window sliding open?.

Personally, I can hear perfectly well over my oscillating fans so, yeah, I suppose he could have heard the window sliding open. If his hearing was sort of obstructed he also could have heard what he thought was a window being opened when Reeva closed the door. But without him explaining it, once again, I can only speculate.

 

[jay-jay]

So the fans were already on, he brings them in, there buzzing away next to him but he yet he still hears the bathroom window sliding open?.

That's the bit I can't work out either .. how he managed to hear (what I presume was) a soft sound like the window sliding in the bathroom, from another room, with the fan right up close to him .. and yet from that moment on, he heard nothing from the toilet cubicle that would indicate to him that it was Reeva in there (no loo flushing .. not even a scream from her when he shot that first bullet through the door).

 

[Really?]

Here is the reference to past emotional abuse.

starts at 6:45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MedbKo8mgs&feature=player_embedded

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Me neither .. after having read K.T.'s Daily Mail link (and I tried reading that with a bit of scepticism, it being the DM an all ..! but it did sound fairly factual). But, to be honest, I don't think it has any bearing on the case itself whether she had previously been in an abusive relationship or not .. it's interesting to know just as background in regard to Reeva, but doesn't make a lot of difference as regards her relationship with OP. Even if she hadn't had a previous abusive relationship, I think she would've recognised when she was being treated badly by him, and taken him to task over it.

I am not sure I did say it had any bearing other than the fact that we believe Reeva would likely recognise a bad pattern and likely would want to remove herself from the relationship if she did indeed feel that way .The fact that her mother didn't know anything does not suggest to me that mean it hadn't happened one way or another .
We can't really know for sure what the state of the relationship was on that night ,maybe at the end of the trial we will know more .
On a personal note if my boyfriend had behaved like that at one of my good friends parties he would have been history because I personally would see that behaviour as controlling and unreasonable ,but I am not in anyway criticising Reeva for staying with him after that because it seems Reeva was a very gentle easy going and forgiving person whereas I am very strong willed and intolerant

 

[james83]

Personally, I can hear perfectly well over my oscillating fans so, yeah, I suppose he could have heard the window sliding open. If his hearing was sort of obstructed he also could have heard what he thought was a window being opened when Reeva closed the door. But without him explaining it, once again, I can only speculate.

No, he clearly states he heard the window sliding open, he somehow missed the door shutting, the key turning in the lock, toilet being flushed.
Funny that oscar only ever hears what suits him.