Trial Discussion Thread #17

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BBM - Stander's daughter is a lawyer. In fairness, how could she not consider the place was a crime scene when a woman had just been shot dead in it? Of course she knew it was a crime scene.

She could be a judge but the point I was making was it was the Police Job to secure the scene, no-one else's.
Botha couldn't turn round and say "well malady there was a lawyer there so I thought it was ok". The police were there pretty quickly and before most of the entourage!
 
Rest easy......this will all come together neatly for the PT.

Was he in fear for his life when he jumped out of his car with a gun....racing towards an unknown target?.......That could have (and should have) ended for him badly.:moo:

Here's hoping!
 
Yes, not long now. I suppose it is possible the press got it wrong, wouldn't be the first time but I find it a bit odd that a pathologist who 'was not at the autopsy' can give evidence on RS. Maybe he is only giving evidence about the food debacle or his opinion as to whether someone can scream after having been shot in the head.

Yup, roll on Monday. If it's tense for us lot, can you imagine the court room!
Totally agree 're the newspapers, I am amazed with all the laws in place they still get away with 'knowingly' writing untruths.
You could be right, the food and first shot are critical to OP's case.
 
Laughing at Yahoo :). No, relax it's not THE Botha, though we may still see him. God help us all if they use him!:banghead:

Ahaha! Pahaha! Go ahead babes :-) I was freaked out, excited, nervous, worried, panicked, confused ALL at the same time! LOLZ!

Yeah and if they wheel THE Botha out, I'm running for cover ;-)

Did the State have 2 people attend the autopsy too?

Fank ooo x
 
Ahaha! Pahaha! Go ahead babes :-) I was freaked out, excited, nervous, worried, panicked, confused ALL at the same time! LOLZ!

Yeah and if they wheel THE Botha out, I'm running for cover ;-)

Did the State have 2 people attend the autopsy too?

Fank ooo x

They probably had a crew of journalists in there too.....just to be sure one of them managed to get the facts! Crazy....I thought our legal system was bad, but I now think we have excellence compared to SA. :tantrum:
 
They probably had a crew of journalists in there too.....just to be sure one of them managed to get the facts! Crazy....I thought our legal system was bad, but I now think we have excellence compared to SA. :tantrum:

LOL! Is that UK legal system or U.S. you now rate? Haha x
 
Viper, there's no such thing as live testimony. There's testimony, and that's it. There isn't evidence that isn't shown in the court, and then miraculously appears against the accused.

The phone/iPAd/Whatsapp information that was read out in court was submitted as evidence.

You will notice that every piece of telephone or message evidence that was read out in court had to be given a reference no. ZZ1, ZZ2 etc etc.

The big stack of paper was the printouts that contained these messages. The rest of the messages were handed in, but they are not being used as evidence. Roux has to be given the opportunity to challenge every piece of evidence before it gets anywhere near OP. That's his job, he's OP's defense lawyer. Roux then asked Francois Moller to look at some other messages, and these were given a reference no. as well, as again these are the only ones being used as evidence.

You can't hold back a piece of evidence that the defense lawyer hasn't been able to challenge and spring it on the accused, it doesn't work like that.

Think of it like this, it would be the equivalent of prosecution displaying a purse in court, which needs to be challenged by Roux. Roux discusses the purse on cross-ex and the purse is submitted as evidence. The PT can't later bring the purse back once the accused is on the stand and say, 'Sorry Mr Pistorius, you're lawyer discussed the purse, but we now need to question you on these suspicious looking coins inside'.

If it hasn't been introduced to Roux it won't be introduced to OP. :facepalm:

I am on my mobile and your message looks very long and confusing, so I don't think I can do anything to add any more clarity than what I had in my previous post. Why not simply wait until Minor rejoins the conversation, s/he is an attorney. S/he can address your "understanding" about how evidence is introduced and how it is used by both sides.

BTW The WhatsApp data and the instructions for using the data was introduced in to evidence. The content of that data was not revealed. <modsnip> The data is in evidence now, Nel can get those files and use whatever is in them in his cross examination(s).

Cheers!
 
Barry was tweeting a reply that was given to reporters :

Q. Mr Perumal have you found anything?

A. Yes, I'm satisfied with the findings.

Nobody knows what his findings are yet, apart from the DT.

I remember you posting the link below on 31st Mar because it was from a SA attorney and had a out line of some of the issues underlying this case. You suggested that it had been updated since the case, but i could only see references to the bail hearing and a mention that the case was still months away. The piece stated that the PT had failed to provide evidence to make a case at the bail hearing.

http://www.dutoitattorneys.com/recent-court-judgements/comment-oscar-pistorius-trial

I thought other FMs might be interested in a more up to date view from the attorney in question, so I am posting the link below which quotes Du Toit. I apologise because it is Fox News, not my favourite but one would hope they are quoting him correctly. The article was posted on 23rd March.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/23/expert-screaming-gives-pistorius-major-problem/

Du Toit, who is following the trial but not involved, said the prosecution has "definitely" made a case for murder against the Olympic runner for the fatal shooting of Steenkamp, and Pistorius' defense must now respond.

Chief prosecutor Gerrie Nel has so far presented a specific line of evidence compellingly, du Toit said. Using the accounts of neighbors and backing them up with the expert opinion of pathologist Gert Saayman and police ballistics investigator Capt. Christiaan Mangena, Nel may have shown to the court that it was "reasonable" that Steenkamp screamed during the four shots fired at her, du Toit said.

"There's definitely a golden thread here," du Toit told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "A golden thread of someone who was screaming and who was shot. The objective facts, which are the injuries she sustained, coupled with the expert opinion, tied with your circumstantial evidence presented by witnesses. And if that ties up with one another then Oscar has got a major problem."
 
Hey guys. I have to miss the first five hours of testimony on Monday (stupid work :tantrum:) so I'm putting it to you... that I expect a detailed rundown of every single detail of every single sentence of every single thing that's relevant to anything at all at all at all! This site is better than watching live - and if there's any vomiting, I want to hear about it!!! :tyou:
 
Hi all I am new to this forum but have been following this trial. Based on what I have read, at the moment, I think OP version of events only works in isolation but does not work when you bring his version into the context of that night and his character.

Anyways, I like the back and forth of the discussions. This trial remains me of Simon Gittany's trial in Australia.
 
I am on my mobile and your message looks very long and confusing, so I don't think I can do anything to add any more clarity than what I had in my previous post. Why not simply wait until Minor rejoins the conversation, s/he is an attorney. S/he can address your "understanding" about how evidence is introduced and how it is used by both sides.

BTW The WhatsApp data and the instructions for using the data was introduced in to evidence. The content of that data was not revealed. The data is in evidence now, Nel can get those files and use whatever is in them in his cross examination(s).

Cheers!

If the content data has not been revealed to defense (i.e Roux not OP) it cannot be used as evidence.

<modsnip>
 
If the content data has not been revealed to defense (i.e Roux not OP) it cannot be used as evidence.

You are making things up :banghead: and misleading people.

But surely anything entered into evidence in the court has to be revealed to both the judge and the defence team. Does not the very act of entering it into evidence reveal it to the defence?

So if the transcripts and photos have been entered into evidence (which as I understand they have) why can't they be used?
 
I remember you posting the link below on 31st Mar because it was from a SA attorney and had a out line of some of the issues underlying this case. You suggested that it had been updated since the case, but i could only see references to the bail hearing and a mention that the case was still months away. The piece stated that the PT had failed to provide evidence to make a case at the bail hearing.

http://www.dutoitattorneys.com/recent-court-judgements/comment-oscar-pistorius-trial

I thought other FMs might be interested in a more up to date view from the attorney in question, so I am posting the link below which quotes Du Toit. I apologise because it is Fox News, not my favourite but one would hope they are quoting him correctly. The article was posted on 23rd March.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/23/expert-screaming-gives-pistorius-major-problem/

Thanks Lyra,

Yep, the link was provided to help people understand the laws regarding the various murder charges.

It's unusual for an attorney to give an opinion, but good all the same.

:thumb:
 
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