Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[nastasya]

Whispered to Reeva to get down and call the police but thought nothing of it when she said nothing back and didnt even move.
Cool story bro.

That might be the biggest lie of the day.

How do you "get down" when you're in bed? Hide under the covers?

WTF? He's either really that stupid or he believes the judge is that stupid.

I think the only chance the defense has would be to submit an IQ test for evidence. If the killer's IQ is under 75, then his story possibly might make sense.

REALITY CHECK - he didn't hear an intruder. He heard his girlfiend going to pee according to his OWN story.

Why would that cause terror? People going to pee in the middle of the night do not produce terror inducing sounds. The killer CAN'T be THAT stupid, can he???

A four-year old wouldn't be afraid of hearing somebody in the bathroom going to pee in the middle of the night.

 

[Gryffindor]

I thought that it may be for guests as I'm sure he must have friends with stronger disabilities than his own. Or he may be looking towards his future as a lot of amputees sometimes end up having further operations to take even more of the limb off if it gets infected.

Or if his stumps become so raw or increasingly damaged where wearing his prosthetics is too painful also (even for temporary periods of time) he may need a wheelchair to be mobile.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

He still maintained that he locked the bedroom door when he went to bed.

From his testimony today, it became a little more clear that his bedroom doors are double doors. I believe one of the doors is the one that he uses to enter and leave his bedroom. The other door stays latched at the bottom, and that door is not used unless there's a particular need - what I gathered is that he needed to get both doors open to carry Reeva through, so on his way back to his bedroom after he went down and unlocked the front door, he tried to kick his way through the door because it was locked and he couldn't get it open or because it was stuck due to humidity and expansion. (It wasn't totally clear).

Thanks I already knew they were double doors as they were shown on the floor plans that were published . Would like to satisfy myself 100% from his testimony as to whether they were locked or not because yesterday I thought he said he closed them and then placed the cricket bat in front of them .
If he just kicked the bolted door open it would not have caused damage to the leading opening door where the lock is .
Going to review the crime scene photo's .
Just then leaves the little matter of the hole in them .

 

[lisasalinger]

"The defense hasn't made a convincing argument yet that OP's life experiences caused his "sudden terror" syndrome."

Let's say he does have that dread syndrome--and I agree they have not made the case--he is USING his "condition" to cover up murder. Problem is, he always tweeted about going into "full combat mode" over the dryer rumbling way before he killed Reeva and home invasion is rife in SA. STILL, he lived behind a high fence with electrics atop it, had two guard dogs, lived in a well-protected gated community and his STORY doesn't wash. His community had never had an instance of violent crime, if crime at all. AND HOW DOES GOING PEE PEE SOUND LIKE A WINDOW OPENING, A PERSON BREAKING IN?

BBM... I strongly agree!

According to Oscar's testimony everybody and their brother... literally... has been a victim of crime at some point in South Africa. His whole family has apparently been terrorized.

Yet, they are not shooting people in the middle of the night.

So is it the lack of legs? According to him, he was raised to be just like everybody else and has lived his life as such. Not only that, he has exceled beyond what most able-bodied people can do.

They have not convinced me at all, not even close, that he has good reason to be any more terrified than every single citizen living in South Africa.

 

[soozieqtips]

There is a definite torch and pitchfork mentality among some of the posters here.

Yes. Conceded. It would be terribly unfair and ugly, our savoring OP's potential downfall, our gallows humor, if we did not believe he is guilty of deliberate murder and that he might get away with it. We want justice for Reeva and she is dead and we think he meant her to be be and is lying. So all we have is our smirking to offset the fear that another OJ injustice is coming our way. Now, admittedly, none of us can KNOW. We weren't there blah blah. Still, many of us, based on what we can know, see a mountain of circumstantial evidence that points to Oscar ruthlessly and mercilessly killing defenseless Reeva in the heat of a moment he now bold-facedly lies about. We are playing jury. We are holding our own mock trial. Best we can do to participate in getting justice for Reeva, vicariously.

Hi emma, it might be easier to put the other person's quote in a different colour (or put a line under it) just so we know they're not your words. I only realised the first sentence wasn't yours because I remember who posted it. Enjoying your posts by the way :smile:

 

[Interested Bystander]

I've never even heard of that :scared:

Very unusual and rarely used. I was so surprised to hear the attorney suggest this is what the Defence seemed to be trying for. All I can say is that looking back at today in court when OP repeatedly said what he did was automatic and without thought and no intention to kill (my words not his), and refused to budge on this point, that this may be what was being set up.
However, I think there needs to be some external reason too and I cannot think, other than extreme fear, what he could claim.

 

[Murphys_Law]

No, that was all our "reason", the general public. I just read his statement and bail affi and not once does he mention that was the reason why he didn't hear her get up. All he says in his statement is "in the time that I got the fans, closed doors etc"

Perhaps you didn't read the entire affidavit ...

"With the benefit of hindsight I believe that Reeva went to the toilet when I went out on the balcony to bring the fan in. "

 

[Gryffindor]

Huh? I'm saying I wasn't totally convinced of culpable homicide before his testimony, but now I am.

If his account totally crumbles under cross examination then yes that would strengthen the State's case - but I don't anticipate this happening since the State didn't actually have any evidence in the first place to prove that it's a fabrication.

It's possible though.

Hey Minor

What's implied by a suspended sentence, if that's issued? Jail time without actually serving it?

Thanks

 

[minor4th]

Very unusual and rarely used. I was so surprised to hear the attorney suggest this is what the Defence seemed to be trying for. All I can say is that looking back at today in court when OP repeatedly said what he did was automatic and without thought and no intention to kill (my words not his), and refused to budge on this point, that this may be what was being set up.
However, I think there needs to be some external reason too and I cannot think, other than extreme fear, what he could claim.

I kind of doubt that is where they are going with this - but if so, they won't get very far. I think OP is just having a hard time completely accepting that his own deliberate actions caused Reeva's death (even if he did mistake her for a burglar)

 

[Unique]

In order to fully understand OP explaintion of events, we also have to take him at his word and not superimposed what we think he meant. It is his statement and so should not be interpreted IMO

 

[Interested Bystander]

Like aliens took over my body and I was not in control?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[nastasya]

OP apparently got confused himself on that point. I believe it was said by OP that he damaged the bedroom doors on his way back into the bedroom after opening the front door. He needed both open in order to carry Reeva downstairs and to the car.

Remember, he had no idea Stipp or Baba were going to show up at his house. He told Baba everything was fine.

He opened the front door, then went up to get Reeva's body. He knew Stander and his lawyer daughter were coming over.

It would make sense that if he didn't call the police, and Stander didn't call the ambulance or police, that killer's intention was to cover up the crime. Plan may have been to remove the body.

If that were the case, then killer would have closed and locked the bedroom doors behind him so nobody would accidentally discover the crime scene. Killer's plan may have been for Stander to dump the body. Maybe that's why they were getting plastic bags - to keep blood from getting on the inside of the car.

When he saw Stipp and Baba he had to go back upstairs for some reason. Dumbass might have locked himself out of his own bedroom.

 

[Gryffindor]

Very unusual and rarely used. I was so surprised to hear the attorney suggest this is what the Defence seemed to be trying for. All I can say is that looking back at today in court when OP repeatedly said what he did was automatic and without thought and no intention to kill (my words not his), and refused to budge on this point, that this may be what was being set up.
However, I think there needs to be some external reason too and I cannot think, other than extreme fear, what he could claim.

Vulnerability?

 

[jay-jay]

No, that was all our "reason", the general public. I just read his statement and bail affi and not once does he mention that was the reason why he didn't hear her get up. All he says in his statement is "in the time that I got the fans, closed doors etc"

He doesn't need to .. all he needs to do is set the scene .. which he has done, right down to the last detail .. only he is starting to come unstuck with some of it now and there will be more of that to come. It's a manipulative/autosuggestion type thing.

 

[Feynman]

What good does it do to kick a door that swings open towards the outside instead of opening towards the inside? The door is not going to swing open after kicking it so why? Unless of course it was out of anger and/or to scare the person in the toilet room.

MOO

You smash through the door, make a big hole in it, maybe you can reach around and open it from inside. OP is of course claiming he found the key on the floor inside.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sure you have. It's the sleepwalking defense...without the sleepwalking, of course.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Feynman]

I agree that there's a difference - Mrs. Stipp was clearly lying (or she was tricked by the police into signing a statement that they fudged) and Oscar's was an in-artful use of words that has now been clarified - no reason for him to contradict himself and give a different version now. It's not like he totally made up seeing a person that he didn't see.

Yes, it was a mistake to shoot through the door - he mistakenly believed it to be an intruder. That ain't murder. Is he minimizing it at times? YES, of course he is.

That ain't murder?

 

[nastasya]

He still maintained that he locked the bedroom door when he went to bed.

From his testimony today, it became a little more clear that his bedroom doors are double doors. I believe one of the doors is the one that he uses to enter and leave his bedroom. The other door stays latched at the bottom, and that door is not used unless there's a particular need - what I gathered is that he needed to get both doors open to carry Reeva through, so on his way back to his bedroom after he went down and unlocked the front door, he tried to kick his way through the door because it was locked and he couldn't get it open or because it was stuck due to humidity and expansion. (It wasn't totally clear).

Double doors with bottom latches don't work like you just described.

When both doors are closed, a bolt locks from one door to the other. That's why one of the doors must be made stationary with a floor bolt.

The floor bolt rises up and down on the inside edge of the door. When one door is open, the floor bolt can be lifted, allowing the second door to open. The floor bolt is never locked. It might be stuck.

That said, the doorway from the bathroom to the passage, and the passage itself were the width of one door -not two. There was no need to have the double doors open. If the killer could get the body out of the bathroom and through the two narrow passages, the body would fit through a single open bedroom door.

 

[Gryffindor]

Hey Minor.

What's a suspended sentence verdict which may be issued? Jail time which Oscar doesn't actually serve?

Thank you

 

[Interested Bystander]

I kind of doubt that is where they are going with this - but if so, they won't get very far. I think OP is just having a hard time completely accepting that his own deliberate actions caused Reeva's death (even if he did mistake her for a burglar)

I think you are likely right but I was really surprised this came from an SA Attorney. It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next few days.