Trial Discussion Thread #21 - 14.04.09, Day 19

[ShadyLady]

OP in case anyone missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmadaSpdQdI#aid=P8t9FK8nyOA

 

[Viper]

Nope. That was the cricket bat whacks. Remember the forensic evidence and the two sets of loud bangs?

Gunshots before cricket bat. Not disputed.

BIB. Yes it is. <modsnip>

 

[TorisMom003]

Right - and several witnesses who also heard two sets of gunshots at 3:10 ish and 3:17. All the witnesses can't be right because there were only 4 gunshots and they all happened at the same time (again according to the State's ballistics expert)

State's evidence is that gunshots happened before cricket bat hit the door. That is not disputed.

There is only 4 bullet holes in the toilet room door, 3 bullet holes in Reeva, 1 bullet that missed hitting the wall in the toilet room, 4 casings found at the scene. However, that does not mean that only 4 shots from a gun was fired by OP that night. It is entirely possible to fire a gun and pick up (police) the casings leaving only the casings that one wants to be found.

Don't forget the dented metal cover on the bathtub. Hitting metal is going to be loud.

There is still room for disagreement as to if the State believes the cricket bat hit the door first (to scare Reeva) or the gun shots through the toilet room door came first.

MOO

 

[MeeBee]

BIB. Yes it is. <modsnip>...

When was it disputed?

ETA: your quote is broken.

 

[Forensics]

I agree and by the way.Why was the bathroom door locked? Was Reva scared he was going to hurt her? He knew she was in the bathroom.

Just to be the Devil's Advocate ...perhaps Reeva heard Oscar yelling out to the supposed burglar and she got scared and went back into the toilet cubicle and locked the door for protection from the intruder? From my understanding the bathroom door wasn't locked the toilet cubicle inside the bathroom was.

 

[Gavel Rash]

You said "he soooooo wanted to look in that crack" as if you know something about him or know what he was thinking. Sorry if I misinterpreted ..

Its ok, I was elaborating Oscars words..."I wanted to look into the crack to see of it was Reeva" I added soooo for effect. Who would actually say that? Why wouldn't you just look in the crack or not look in the crack instead of making a point of telling us you didn't?

 

[ShadyLady]

There is only 4 bullet holes in the toilet room door, 3 bullet holes in Reeva, 1 bullet that missed hitting the wall in the toilet room, 4 casings found at the scene. However, that does not mean that only 4 shots from a gun was fired by OP that night. It is entirely possible to fire a gun and pick up (police) the casings leaving only the casings that one wants to be found.

Don't forget the dented metal cover on the bathtub. Hitting metal is going to be loud.

There is still room for disagreement as to if the State believes the cricket bat hit the door first (to scare Reeva) or the gun shots through the toilet room door came first.

MOO

And kicking door....

 

[Trooper]

after a few witness testimonies I dismissed most of Oscars bail and trial statements beginning at where he 'woke up'.. , except for the bit where he says to Dr Stipp, 'I shot her, I killed her' I believed that. ... I dismiss the part where he said 'I thought she was an intruder' altogether...

but since his own testimony on the witness stand, I dismiss his entire perspective of his day and evening up to the firing of the gun and a hell of a lot after it. The quiet dinner, the chat across the dining table, the warm drink upstairs, the yoga, the television..

horse puckey.

 

[aa9511]

O: .....maybe it was plugged in where the tv cabinet was.....I never unplugged any fan in my version....maybe I ran from the door to the balcony and tripped over it....

bbm

Uh oh the "maybe's" started...."maybe's" always start when caught in a lie....trying to think of hypotheticals to fit the evidence presented against your story....hahahaha.....maybe I did this, maybe I did that.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Right - and several witnesses who also heard two sets of gunshots at 3:10 ish and 3:17. All the witnesses can't be right because there were only 4 gunshots and they all happened at the same time (again according to the State's ballistics expert)

State's evidence is that gunshots happened before cricket bat hit the door. That is not disputed.

The only real witnesses is the two in that house,.Oscar and Reva and one is deceased.

 

[TorisMom003]

Just to be the Devil's Advocate ...perhaps Reeva heard Oscar yelling out to the supposed burglar and she got scared and went back into the toilet cubicle and locked the door for protection from the intruder? From my understanding the bathroom door wasn't locked the toilet cubicle inside the bathroom was.

Don't forget the slammed toilet room door. And according to OP he didn't say "Hey intruder, get out of my house". He said "Get out of my house". If it were me in the bathroom/toilet room, I'd be saying WTH Oscar!

 

[MeeBee]

There is only 4 bullet holes in the toilet room door, 3 bullet holes in Reeva, 1 bullet that missed hitting the wall in the toilet room, 4 casings found at the scene. However, that does not mean that only 4 shots from a gun was fired by OP that night. It is entirely possible to fire a gun and pick up (police) the casings leaving only the casings that one wants to be found.

Don't forget the dented metal cover on the bathtub. Hitting metal is going to be loud.

There is still room for disagreement as to if the State believes the cricket bat hit the door first (to scare Reeva) or the gun shots through the toilet room door came first.

MOO

And that would be nothing more than speculation. I don't see how the state intends to prove any of that if it is their case.

 

[Forensics]

I was at the park the other day and there is a gun range almost right next to it. You can always hear guns going when you go to this park. As the guns were being fired, I made a mental note that they sounded almost exactly like the construction going near my house. It had a "thud" quality to it that could very much sound like wood on wood or something hard hitting something else hard.

When we hear loud bangs that sound like gunshots our minds go straight to gunshots. Even in instances when we know it's not, like a car backfire or fireworks, our minds still automatically think gunshots. I don't see how the witnesses can be so sure about what they heard and I don't know how anyone can take this certainty as hard, indisputable evidence. At least Dr. Stipp was willing to somewhat entertain the possibility that what he heard was the cricket bat. I mean, one shot had to be the cricket bat and one the gun shots and they both sounded exactly the same to him.

In isolation yes, but I am wondering if you had heard gunshots and then afterwards a bat on wood....you may be able to distinguish between the two different sounds.

 

[crasshopper]

Just read this..

Speaking on the Oscar Pistorius cable TV channel, former acting South African High Court Judge Chris Greenland said Pistorius had to be fully responsible for his bail affidavit. He also said that Pistorius' long-winded responses were not helping his case.
"Being evasive is one of the no-nos," Greenland said. "From a judicial point of view it's one of the characteristics that will earn you bad marks for a witness."


http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-pistorius-trial-20140410,0,6497378.story#ixzz2yRyREDXa

 

[wb180]

I was at the park the other day and there is a gun range almost right next to it. You can always hear guns going when you go to this park. As the guns were being fired, I made a mental note that they sounded almost exactly like the construction going near my house. It had a "thud" quality to it that could very much sound like wood on wood or something hard hitting something else hard.

When we hear loud bangs that sound like gunshots our minds go straight to gunshots. Even in instances when we know it's not, like a car backfire or fireworks, our minds still automatically think gunshots. I don't see how the witnesses can be so sure about what they heard and I don't know how anyone can take this certainty as hard, indisputable evidence. At least Dr. Stipp was willing to somewhat entertain the possibility that what he heard was the cricket bat. I mean, one shot had to be the cricket bat and one the gun shots and they both sounded exactly the same to him.

Yep agreed - but you know who would know what really happened that night?

OP. But this dude isn't telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (sorry it is pretty obvious) and so everyone has to think think think with the available evidence and discrepancies. Oh well...such is life with these cases. Makes for interesting discussions I guess

 

[Viper]

I'm clinging to the idea that the witnesses were mistaken. Not such a huge stretch to me.

Apparently there will be witnesses who lived much closer to OP who will contradict what the other neighbors heard.

BIB What are you hoping for? Five witnesses that did not hear what the other five witnesses heard? Or five witnesses that heard a slightly different thing than the previous five witnesses heard? Or five witnesses that heard only OP screaming? What wll cancel out what the five witnesses have given evidence to?

 

[aa9511]

By OP's long winded answers and explanations and raising other issues, it appears to me that he just doesn't get that he is doing himself no favours only damage. I keep wanting to tell him to just shut up! He can't help himself as he is used to being in control.

Question is: WHY did Roux let him take the stand??? Maybe OP stubborn and did not listen to advice of his counsel??

 

[Gavel Rash]

Just to be the Devil's Advocate ...perhaps Reeva heard Oscar yelling out to the supposed burglar and she got scared and went back into the toilet cubicle and locked the door for protection from the intruder? From my understanding the bathroom door wasn't locked the toilet cubicle inside the bathroom was.

She would have knocked him over in the hallway.....because he never went onto balcony, she was in bed and he just spoke to her.

 

[Harmony 2]

Let’s go easy on each other please. Passions and emotions are running high in this case and tensions build with differing opinions. Our individual opinions will ultimately have no bearing on the proceedings and decisions in Africa. Please keep this discussion civil and avoid sarcasm and snark.

 

[MeeBee]

Yep agreed - but you know who would know what really happened that night?

OP. But this dude isn't telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (sorry it is pretty obvious) and so everyone has to think think think with the available evidence and discrepancies. Oh well...such is life with these cases. Makes for interesting discussions I guess

I'm not "thinking thinking thinking." The evidence is that one bang had to be the gunshots and one the cricket bat. According to Dr. Stipp, they sounded the same. There is a compelling demonstration on YT that really makes it very believable to me that they could sound exactly the same from a distance. One was only duller, but the sounds were identical. No discrepancies. It's perfectly logical.

All these other theories and yet the state has not even said what they think the two sets of bangs could have been. Fascinating.