Trial Discussion Thread #23 - 14.04.11, Day 21

[Gryffindor]

And it was Reeva's habit to lock herself in when intruder scenarios occurred.

 

[04009margaret]

N: You cannot get away with this time and time again, pretending that you didn't follow...

This is what he does every time he realizes he made a slip up

 

[kaos]

Common sense varies.

Fight or flight is an innate response to each individual.

Nel cannot determine categorically what an individual person would or wouldn't do in such circumstances.

He can because he has to show what a reasonable person would do.

And it was Reeva's habit to lock herself in when intruder scenarios occurred.

Habit?

 

[MeeBee]

Perhaps all those who think OP is "innocent" of knowing it was Reeva would consider the following:

Reeva's bladder was just about empty when she died.

By his own statement, OP spoke to her just before getting up and moving the fans.

He then heard a noise - the window opening. (heard despite the fans).

Grabbed his gun - no time to think - whispered to Reeva, then hurtled down passage screaming, then stopped screaming, heard toilet door slamming, slowed down and went into bathroom quietly.

Heard a noise he perceived as somebody coming out of the toilet and plugged the door with four shots.

So at what time did she actually have a chance to pee?

If the door opened outwards, she could not have reached it to pull it shut if she'd been sitting down on the toilet.

She would not have had time to pee beforehand, and if she had done and had time to flush, he would have heard the flush and/or the cistern refilling.

If she had peed, then stood up and pulled up her shorts, but not flushed, there would have been evidence in the toilet (toilet paper).

But if he heard the window sliding open (which presumably was Reeva in his version), there would not have been time for her to pee AT ALL.

So, if her bladder was empty, why would she have got up in the night and gone to the toilet at all?

Just looking logically at all the above, it makes complete sense that his version is a total and utter fabrication.

Reeva opens the window and goes into the toilet room. OP hears it. As he's going for his gun, unholsters it, whispers to Reeva, Reeba sits down and begins peeing. He starts shouting, she slams the door, pulls her pants up and listens through the door.

It certainly makes more sense in the defense's version than the state's.

 

[shane13]

I think this is the first time I've heard it stated clearly that the state's case is, Reeva was standing up, facing the bathroom door and talking to Oscar when he shot her?

I don't think Nel needs the part about RS talking to him. Because OP's version has him 3 m away screaming at her. Surely knowing his voice, if he did that, she would tell him "It's only me Oscar [or Boo or Baba], relax."

 

[Carol70]

Blaming Reeva again .. "I wish she had screamed, I wish she had let me know"

For reals?? I also wish she had screamed out, and I'm in NO way blaming her for what happened. I totally understand why she didn't... even though no one else appears to.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I think this is the first time I've heard it stated clearly that the state's case is, Reeva was standing up, facing the bathroom door and talking to Oscar when he shot her?

I think that was what their ballistic 's guy said.

 

[MeeBee]

Well that is not the same as definitively saying that he heard the door opening.

Nel is still wrong. He might have just forgotten OP saying this but he's still incorrect when he says OP never mentioned that before when he has.

 

[BritsKate]

And it was Reeva's habit to lock herself in when intruder scenarios occurred.

I don't agree that's been established. We've heard Reeva was victim to an intruder by testimony from one person - Oscar. I'd really like Reeva's mother to testify on that since she was actually there.

What Oscar said today was that she locked herself away and wouldn't speak to anyone for a day. Because of the 2nd half of his statement I have my doubts. Whenever something traumatic has happened to me, I've locked myself away for days and refused to speak to others.

Until there's confirmation from someone other than Oscar, I just can't accept his account of anything. Too many inconsistencies so far just in his testimony alone.

 

[Gryffindor]

I'm thinking his dog is one lucky pooch.

He has 2 dogs. Double lucky ;-)

 

[MeeBee]

For reals?? I also wish she had screamed out, and I'm in NO way blaming her for what happened. I totally understand why she didn't... even though no one else appears to.

I agree. Perception is everything. He probably very much wished Reeva screamed out so he could have known it was her and he didn't shoot her. That's not blaming her, that's natural. He also probably wishes he did many other things different that night, as well.

 

[BritsKate]

For reals?? I also wish she had screamed out, and I'm in NO way blaming her for what happened. I totally understand why she didn't... even though no one else appears to.

I think the disbelief is that, by his own account, Oscar was screaming and shouting. If he was screaming and shouting why wouldn't she say anything at all?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Well, goodnight all. It's just about 7:30 am Friday, here in North Catkalatky. (It's a southern thang).

 

[Britlaws]

Originally Posted by MsY
My parents were attacked by three intruders on their plot a few years ago. Regardless of the details I thank God that my dad somehow managed to get to his hidden gun under his bed while both his hands were tied, my mother being held down by one of them. And shoot one of them before they all three made a run for it.

To shoot at danger in this country becomes a matter of life and death.

Maybe that is why, despite everything else, I 'get' that night with them alone at his home. That he reacted in a fight mode and not in a flight mode. And it is so very very sad that she was the person behind that door. And not an intruder as he perceived it to be.

BBM With respect, would it have been okay then if it had been an intruder and he/she had been shot dead?

 

[Carol70]

Nel is wrong. OP said on direct that he heard a noise that he thought was someone coming out of toilet. This is not something he's never said before and I could see the defense getting all worked up looking for the document. Perhaps Nel wanted the adjournment before they could object.

I agree with the above, he never said the door was opening, he THOUGHT is was about to open after hearing the noise.

 

[DebinGA]

He did follow it up by saying he was screaming at Reeva to call the police.

I think it was RS screaming through the door to Oscar ranting on the other side, "I'm calling police!"

 

[Gryffindor]

For reals?? I also wish she had screamed out, and I'm in NO way blaming her for what happened. I totally understand why she didn't... even though no one else appears to.

I'm with you. He didn't say it in blame AT ALL though. He was desperately crying and said it meaning she would then still be here and his horrific mistake wouldn't have happened. Was said in grief not accusation

I think he'd give anything for the tiniest change to allow this never to have happened.

 

[shane13]

Nel is still wrong. He might have just forgotten OP saying this but he's still incorrect when he says OP never mentioned that before when he has.

Disagree obviously.
Interesting that when Roux picked on witnesses' every precise word, his supporters were OK with that.
So we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[james83]

Its just so convenient that oscar hears the door slam but doesnt hear it lock isnt it?.

 

[steveml]

Heaven forbid the best defence team money could buy made his story fit, well I never.

...the best defence team in the world can't make the witness statements fit the timeline after OP has given his statement. Not unless hypnotism was involved.