Trial Discussion Thread #25 - 14.04.14, Day 22

[BritsKate]

Wow! Thanks for such a great welcome!:cheers:

Has anyone got any theories for the blood splatter on bedroom wall behind left bedside? (on the side where I think Reeva's sandals were)

That it got there before Reeva was shot to death. I think there was an altercation that may have turned physical but that no longer accounts for a continuous line of blood droplets on the carpet...on the other hand, if he'd taken Reeva into the bedroom after shooting her, I'd expect much more blood - she obviously couldn't have bled out in the bathroom, bled a little being carried around the bedroom, and then left arterial spray below the stairs.

So my best guess is still something happening before he shot her (duvet, wall, headboard) and some transfer by him after (watch case, carpet, possibly exposed side of duvet). I really don't see how, or even why, he would have walked her all over the bedroom prior to taking her downstairs. He'd already unlocked the bedroom door so there really was no reason to be carrying her through the room.

JMO

 

[aoibhinn]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I do feel the most sympathetic for the Steenkamps, but OP's family didn't cause or do this and they are suffering too. In fact, I wonder if deep down inside they, too, sense the sinister and doubt his version. I would think that would be a horrific thing to think, let alone know, about your loved one.

Very much agree. After all, you can't pick your family. While not making light of the tragedy the Steenkamp family must endure, I can't imagine how I would feel if it were my brother on that stand. It's a completely different type of horror.

 

[kittychi]

Let's not forget, from OP's own mouth, he does not remember walking down the hallway with her.

He remembers in great detail exactly how he got her out of the toilet, how hard it was to pick her up, what he said to Johan Stander on the phone, then finally being able to pick her up.... BUT he magically does not remember walking from the bathroom to the middle landing of the stairs... not the top of the stairs... specifically the middle landing

Why?

That is the exact area that has arterial spurt on the walls, etc.

What the heck happened in that exact stretch of his room and hall that he doesn't want to talk about.

BBM: ...and if you look at that layout, the hallways almost form a maize that he had to carry her through to get to the steps.

Another thing in his affidavit...that she "died in my arms." That has never been confirmed either and IMO is part of the fairytale love story that he tried to parade as the truth.

 

[Viper]

That's the exact opposite conclusion to the information I posted.
Eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable. This area is currently being researched and new techniques are being introduced to inhibit misidentification of suspects, removal of leading questions, etc.
Autobiographical memory of personal trauma/highly emotional events is very different.

<modsnip>

But plenty of us understood the information that you posted and we agree with your characterization of the research! Thank you so much for sharing this, it was new to me and very interesting to learn about.

 

[Really?]

good night all...see you in my a.m.

it is now 9:12....EST...:gathering:

fftobed:

 

[Cherwell]

Yes, of course all the shots took place in the bathroom. I'm not suggesting otherwise. It has been established via the trajectory of the bullets through the door combined with the earwitnesses that the first bullet hit her in the hip, she staggered back falling on the magazine rack and then there was a pause before the three other shots during which PISTORIUS CHANGED HIS AIM.

I am in the camp that believes he could see her through the damage done to the door by the first shot and that's why the remaining three shots were so accurate. Others believe that he heard the sound of wood moving and shot at the sound of the magazine rack under her body. (That is contradicted by OP's testimony that he couldn't hear anything after the first shot).

It's possible that there was damage done to the door earlier, with the bat. I doubt he would be able to see her through a bullet hole, but if part of the panel above had been broken out ... that's more feasible.

 

[kittychi]

Yeah, that's why eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable evidence on the planet---because the traumatized mind cannot remember details.

Huh? Earwitness testimony too? Why bother then!

:what:

.

 

[BritsKate]

BBM: ...and if you look at that layout, the hallways almost form a maize that he had to carry her through.

Another thing in his affidavit...that she "died in my arms." That has never been confirmed either and IMO is part of the fairytale love story that he tried to parade as the truth.

Along with the text messages memorializing him ridiculing her, mocking her, her being scared of him; conveniently going to get her gift on Valentine's Day, and getting her birthday wrong from the witness stand.

That last one infuriates me to no end. But this is the love of his life? Hmph.

 

[tomkat]

Anyone think many women, or men for that matter, take their jeans or trousers off so they end up inside out ? Not saying you can't but it's much more difficult imo that way and then if you are going to use them again you have to turn them back the right way.

not difficult, easy if you are sweaty, your pants are extremely tight or maybe easy if someone helped you get out of them quickly
LOL

 

[aoibhinn]

<modsnip>

But plenty of us understood the information that you posted and we agree with your characterization of the research! Thank you so much for sharing this, it was new to me and very interesting to learn about.

My pleasure, as I too depend on the valuable insights and links from my fellow posters.

:cheers:​

 

[Panda]

Huh? Earwitness testimony too? Why bother then!

:what:

.

I agree that witnesses' statements can't be wholly relied upon. I do think however, they give an overall indication of events.

 

[molly333]

Where oh where is MurphysLaw?

Murphy just solved this case.

 

[emmavoberry]

Nel: why would you scream, why would you scream out
OP: I was scared. I wanted to ask Reeva why is she phoning the police

Unless I heard incorrectly, that is a BOMBSHELL ...possibly the prime motive for snuffing her out -- he was afraid she was going to call the police!

I think in his confused state on the stand at that moment, op got the contexts of his post kill screams mixed up with pre-kill screams.

He has never before to the best of my know. explained so specifically why he screamed (as he claims, though he says he couldn't hear himself doing it.) And in previous written and spoken testimony,he has indicated that from the time he heard the "intruder/s" until the time he broke down the bathroom door, he had no visual on Reeva (hence, his mistake), just assumed she was in bed, but not answering his low tones/whispers/what evers.

He has claimed that he called out for her to call the police. Why then would he want to ask her why she was calling them?

If Winston Churchill can use this expression, I guess I can.
OMG!!!

 

[luvmygarden]

I think Nel is using a technique that he has cleverly honed over the years. OP is giving him so much material to use. In any human interaction, even with challenges and conflicts, the back and forth is a kind of movement. This movement is vital for building rapport, and equally for effecting some change of view. Therapists know that this movement is important in order to create change. If OP just answered in a monosyllabic way, yes or no, Nel would find it difficult to move him on, and expose the contradictions in his testimony. Without movement the exchange would become static, rigid, whilst Nel is provoking him to keep moving.

OP is a hard nut to crack. Added to stubborn, his need to over power his world around him, good and bad he talks so much. He is a hard one to get from A to B because of his one sided views. Bet Reeva saw a character flaw right off the bat. Unlike the younger girls who were easily controlled he found a person who had scruples and would not be brought down to his level of thinking. On the other hand that was her demise, so sad.

OP could not tolerate someone he couldn't lead around with his fame and fortune celebrity. Even OP's male friends were suckers for OP's persona.
Makes me mad he tells her the ropes, don't chew gum, wear the correct clothes etc and yet look what he has done with his success. Far from not chewing a lousey piece of gum. His family surely must be devastated.

If he walks I don't see that he would make any changes to his life in the future.
His freedom will boost him to new heights of skewed principles.

 

[Viper]

The judge did step in, more than once. Roux did too, I can't remember if it was once or twice.

BIB Roux did step in today. He talked for quite a while. I was amazed because he was asking the judge to make Mr. Nel stop questioning Mr. Pistorius on a particular matter, the slamming of the door and basically that whole sequence of events! I laughed so hard! Sure it is alright for Mr. Roux to at least make the attempt to get Judge Masipa to tell Mr. Nel to stop questioning Pistorius about those thing, but it was just so pathetic!!!

 

[Panda]

Nel: why would you scream, why would you scream out
OP: I was scared. I wanted to ask Reeva why is she phoning the police

Unless I heard incorrectly, that is a BOMBSHELL ...possibly the prime motive for snuffing her out -- he was afraid she was going to call the police!

I think in his confused state on the stand at that moment, op got the contexts of his post kill screams mixed up with pre-kill screams.

He has never before to the best of my know. explained so specifically why he screamed (as he claims, though he says he couldn't hear himself doing it.) And in previous written and spoken testimony,he has indicated that from the time he heard the "intruder/s" until the time he broke down the bathroom door, he had no visual on Reeva (hence, his mistake), just assumed she was in bed, but not answering his low tones/whispers/what evers.

He has claimed that he called out for her to call the police. Why then would he want to ask her why she was calling them?

If Winston Churchill can use this expression, I guess I can.
OMG!!!

Can you recall in what day of the proceedings? I would like to go back and have a listen. Very interesting and as you say, quite a slip to make!

 

[Murphys_Law]

He has never before to the best of my know. explained so specifically why he screamed (as he claims, though he says he couldn't hear himself doing it.) And in previous written and spoken testimony,he has indicated that from the time he heard the "intruder/s" until the time he broke down the bathroom door, he had no visual on Reeva (hence, his mistake), just assumed she was in bed, but not answering his low tones/whispers/what evers.

He has claimed that he called out for her to call the police. Why then would he want to ask her why she was calling them?

If Winston Churchill can use this expression, I guess I can.
OMG!!!
[/COLOR]

Apr 14 Session 3
Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 14 April 2014, Session 3 - YouTube

@15:45 Nel starts talking about the moments immediately after the shots.

@16:50
Nel: why would you scream, why would you scream out
OP: I was scared. I wanted to ask Reeva why is she phoning the police

Unless I heard incorrectly, that is a BOMBSHELL ...possibly the prime motive for snuffing her out -- he was afraid she was going to call the police!

I think in OP's very confused state on the stand at that moment, he got the contexts of his post-kill screams mixed up with his pre-kill screams.

It may only be a phoneme, a word or a phrase at a time, but slowly and skillfully the truth IS being extracted by Nel.

 

[kittychi]

Can you recall in what day of the proceedings? I would like to go back and have a listen. Very interesting and as you say, quite a slip to make!

Hi Panda...

I think it was today; hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[celticthyme]

BBM: ...and if you look at that layout, the hallways almost form a maize that he had to carry her through to get to the steps.

Another thing in his affidavit...that she "died in my arms." That has never been confirmed either and IMO is part of the fairytale love story that he tried to parade as the truth.

He is even lying when he says "she died in my arms" NO ... she died when he blew a bullet through her brain with a gun and she fell unto the cold bathroom floor. .. He left her lying there for several minutes and NEVER CALLED 911. He called the cover up squad to trample the crime scene and comfort him. Poor Oscar. The level of his denial and disillusion is galling.

 

[kittychi]

It is 10:05 p.m. in Michigan. G'night all...see you early in the morning



:sleep: fftobed: