Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[jay-jay]

From your perspective, in what way?

I'm pretty sure I won't get an answer on that (I've not yet had one answer to any previous questions, either), but I'm pretty sure I know what is being suggested here and I personally find it quite unpleasant.

 

[james83]

Didn't realise cards were compulsory LOL

I think Reeva would have disagreed to be fair

Reeva Steenkamp ‏@reevasteenkamp 13 Feb 2013
What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow??? #getexcited #ValentinesDay

 

[kittychi]

It supports OP"s statement that it was a loving relationship and he knew she felt the same way

I disagree. If they had a row, it was much after that card and gift were wrapped and presented to him.

This in no way supports that she would NOT have taken that gift with her on her way out the door, IMO.

 

[jay-jay]

It supports OP"s statement that it was a loving relationship and he knew she felt the same way

It doesn't support it at all .. not one bit.

 

[Freya1977]

So he kicked the door. I don't know how that helps his case. He would have done that if they were fighting too.

 

[jay-jay]

I read somewhere that it was red physio tape. This is where a physiotherapist tapes an area for various reasons.

http://www.physioroom.com/product/P...y_I_Y_Strip_Tape_Red_5cm_x_5m/3366/39267.html

Thanks .. yes, I knew about the tape ... but I also thought I kept hearing about a 'pain patch' too .. in addition to the taping ..

 

[beach]

Think the Valentine's card message and Reeva's words says it all.

I totally disagree and think far, far too much is being made of that card that Reeva wrote TO Oscar.

I was in a very abusive marriage for a number of years. I wrote similar messages expressing my love in cards over the years. Many, many times. He still almost killed me twice. The second time a gun was involved.


Being in a relationship with a narcissist, self-indulgent, control freak is very complicated. Don't assume she didn't love him. You can't make sense of it until you remove yourself from the toxic environment.

 

[whiterum]

Where is his card to her?, or wasn't there one?.

Just proves Nel's point that he is self -centred and it is all me,me,me and if he had no card for her IMO it is because he was holding in some grudge or other and didn't think she deserved one.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks .. yes, I knew about the tape ... but I also thought I kept hearing about a 'pain patch' too .. in addition to the taping ..

Apologies. I haven't heard of a pain patch. Have you a link?

 

[G.bng]

in 'covering' he has created another problem

he went to sleep at 10pm ish. awoke at 3am ish.
approximately 5 hours asleep

his only words to reeva are ??
the only words from her [according to him] are 'can't you sleep'.

then he heard the bathroom window open...

how did he not know that his sister had not popped around?
or a friend?
or a friend of hers?

he has someone beside him, that he knows is awake, that he could question to verify events leading up to the time he awoke. but he doesn't ask her.

I was very surprised Nel didn't ask OP what he replied to Reeva when she asked if he couldn't sleep... or did he ask him and I missed it ?

 

[Carmelita]

in 'covering' he has created another problem

he went to sleep at 10pm ish. awoke at 3am ish.
approximately 5 hours asleep

his only words to reeva are ??
the only words from her [according to him] are 'can't you sleep'.

then he heard the bathroom window open...

how did he not know that his sister had not popped around?
or a friend?
or a friend of hers?

he has someone beside him, that he knows is awake, that he could question to verify events leading up to the time he awoke. but he doesn't ask her.

His sister or any friend that had popped around would have to have climbed in to the bedroom through the open balcony doors or the bathroom window as the bedroom door was locked and had a cricket bat wedged in it. Given Oscars history of behavior I doubt any one that knew him would be so foolish as to do that.

 

[Freya1977]

I totally disagree and think far, far too much is being made of that card that Reeva wrote TO Oscar.

I was in a very abusive marriage for a number of years. I wrote similar messages expressing my love in cards over the years. Many, many times. He still almost killed me twice. The second time a gun was involved.


Being in a relationship with a narcissist, self-indulgent, control freak is very complicated. Don't assume she didn't love him. You can't make sense of it until you remove yourself from the toxic environment.

I agree. I did the same with my abusive ex. It doesn't prove anything.

 

[soozieqtips]

The complainant believed the statement might have infringed Pistorius’ rights to be presumed innocent until proven guilty; freedom of expression; and human dignity, generally impacting on his right to a fair trial as contained in the bill of rights... The SAHRC considered the complaint within the context of basic fair trial rights protected in the constitution.

However on a close assessment of the facts of the matter, international jurisprudence, the bar council rules, its own jurisdiction, and authority of the court, the complaint was rejected.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/15/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-15-april

 

[Freya1977]

I was very surprised Nel didn't ask OP what he replied to Reeva when she asked if he couldn't sleep... or did he ask him and I missed it ?

Yes he did, and he simply answered "no I cant"

 

[Sarahlou]

Amazing how these protectors of poor, fragile Oscar are prepared to overlook every single lie he has told and every single inconsistency, and to focus on one Valentines gift which in and of itself (and the emotions attached to it, and the absence of a reciprocal gift) could well have caused or contributed to a fight.

<modsnip>

isn't it? I do wonder if he wasn't a famous, good looking, disabled athlete whether he'd have the same support? I doubt it somehow.

 

[jay-jay]

Rendered all of his fruitless efforts stating Reeva wanting to leave, arguing, not happy etc pointless.

Roux said SO MUCH with SO little. 1 sentence. Very effective.

It doesn't render them fruitless at all, it adds to it .. it's clear from that card that earlier in the day, Reeva was hoping for something which never happened (i.e. for her love to be reciprocated) and it caused some upset which then went from bad to worse over the course of the evening and into the night.

Maybe I am layering my own experience of Valentine's Day with my own violent ex partner .. but that day (Valentine's Day itself, as opposed to the day before in Reeva's case) turned out virtually the same for me (all apart from being shot .. and if my ex had a gun, I wouldn't have put it past him to have used it that night). This was the very first night during the relationship that I ended up having to call the police out in order to have him removed from my house (and then, of course, he was all remorseful, etc, etc, blah blah, and wormed his way back into my life again .. like they always do).

It's so clear to me what happened here ..

 

[benn25]

Hi folks. Can someone give me a summary of whats been said/going on since OP got off the stand please.

 

[Carmelita]

The bat sounds sound like my neighbour chopping wood....

for the gun, surely one of them have a glock they can borrow, just fire it in the courtroom in the cubicle.. let's see if it really is deafening.

That would be reckless and dangerous. Perhaps the judge has shot a glock and knows how ear shattering it would be in such closed quarters without ear protection.

 

[BritsKate]

It was a very young relationship, they had no commitments together as of yet, no children, not dependant on each other financially, no reason to stay if you didn't want to, and Reeva had been in a bad relationship before, so would have had some wisdom there. As to him not saying he loved her via a card or present, someone always has to say it first in a relationship, it doesn't mean it's not reciprocated..it's a scary thing to say..and on the issue of it being thoughtless that he didn't get a present etc, Oscar would not be the first man to underestimate the importance of these things to a lady.

By your definition then, teen dating violence, same-sex violence, and dating violence aren't genuine because those relationships also often don't share commitments, children,
a mortgage, and are often not financially dependent on one another. Its a fallacy though - violence occurs all the time in dating relationships - teen dating violence especially has been on the rise. And by violence, I mean all forms of abuse.

Why people stay when they don't 'have' to is incredibly convoluted. I can say with some confidence that emotional abuse can be notoriously difficult to see as actual abuse. People can spend weeks, months, even years walking on eggshells, trying to be perfect, wondering why their partner is always making abusive jokes, humiliating them, or is always angry with them (just a few examples) - while there are also occasional bright spots of manipulation that convince the victim their abuser is remorseful, loves them, or is really going to change. Because they do want their relationship to work, the bright spots keep them hoping, and staying.

MOO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[G.bng]

The complainant believed the statement might have infringed Pistorius’ rights to be presumed innocent until proven guilty; freedom of expression; and human dignity, generally impacting on his right to a fair trial as contained in the bill of rights... The SAHRC considered the complaint within the context of basic fair trial rights protected in the constitution.

However on a close assessment of the facts of the matter, international jurisprudence, the bar council rules, its own jurisdiction, and authority of the court, the complaint was rejected.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/15/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-15-april

So very glad to read that. Was an absolutely ridiculous and stupid complaint... barristers here and presumably those of SA (called attorneys but contrary to US have exactly the same functions as a barrister here) are in their working capacity in court immune from any of that sort of thing as well as is the judge.