Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[Rumpole]

Think the Valentine's card message and Reeva's words says it all.

Yes. What Nel might call "circumstantial evidence" One block of the tiny little State case wall is ..... toast

 

[james83]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

Where is his card to her?, or wasn't there one?.

 

[minor4th]

Many of us have had the misfortune to fall for someone who was, to varying degrees, no good for us. :shakehead: uch:

I don't think the card proves anything about his attitude towards her. I may be wrong, but it sounds like the first time she has directly said that she loved him, and I had the impression (can't explain why) that she had been waiting to hear it from him first.
He doesn't appear to have got her a card at all, otherwise I'm sure we would have been shown one, or told about it.

It supports OP"s statement that it was a loving relationship and he knew she felt the same way

 

[james83]

Think the Valentine's card message and Reeva's words says it all.

You would make a terrible judge, lol.

 

[Gryffindor]

Yes. What Nel might call "circumstantial evidence" One block of the tiny little State case wall is ..... toast

Rendered all of his fruitless efforts stating Reeva wanting to leave, arguing, not happy etc pointless.

Roux said SO MUCH with SO little. 1 sentence. Very effective.

 

[Cherwell]

Yes. What Nel might call "circumstantial evidence" One block of the tiny little State case wall is ..... toast

Oh really? Which block is that?

If the State suggested she didn't love him, I must have missed it.

 

[Gryffindor]

You would make a terrible judge, lol.

Not for innocent people accused

 

[jassy writer]

A nice way of concealing the fact that he didn't actually feel the same way! Less than a month earlier he publicly denied it was a serious relationship and said "Girls lie when they say they don't mind how busy you are."

 

[james83]

It supports OP"s statement that it was a loving relationship and he knew she felt the same way

Could also suggest she was much more into him than vice versa, where is his card for her?.

 

[Onlyamum]

A few things are confusing me

Didn't the Stipps have 2 balconies? And have they been making the tests from the ground as opposed to up on the actual balcony?

Even although the toilet light didn't work, doesn't mean the bathroom light wasn't on?

Nel was inferring the curtains had not been closed so the lighting would have been different than was tested by the current witness?

Not saying anything but wondering if anyone could shed light on wherever I'm wrong or what I've missed please?

 

[sleuth-d-]

Something that struck me from earlier on in the current witness's testimony, he remarked how hitting the door with cricket bat gave him a very sore arm, could this be how Pistorius really injured his shoulder?, and didn't actually sleep on the left as claimed.

totally.

especially if there was no sleeping.

again, parts of the truth mixed in with a 'version'... which is so complicated - built up over a year, and added to even during the last week - that even oscar cannot keep with it at times.

whichever way it is mixed. it all leads to the toilet door with the four holes in. the one thing he has struggled to explain away in all that time. the one thing he cannot explain away. the one thing that leads him to prison.

interesting that it is there every day for him to look at.

 

[jassy writer]

Amazing how these protectors of poor, fragile Oscar are prepared to overlook every single lie he has told and every single inconsistency, and to focus on one Valentines gift which in and of itself (and the emotions attached to it, and the absence of a reciprocal gift) could well have caused or contributed to a fight.

<modsnip>

 

[Rumpole]

Rendered all of his fruitless efforts stating Reeva wanting to leave, arguing, not happy etc pointless.

Roux said SO MUCH with SO little. 1 sentence. Very effective.

Yes.

All that badgering and bullying and nastiness... and for what?

The State version of events is disproved from the outset my their own witness and expert testimony

 

[Gryffindor]

Could also suggest she was much more into him than vice versa, where is his card for her?.

Didn't realise cards were compulsory LOL

 

[hetty]

It was a very young relationship, they had no commitments together as of yet, no children, not dependant on each other financially, no reason to stay if you didn't want to, and Reeva had been in a bad relationship before, so would have had some wisdom there. As to him not saying he loved her via a card or present, someone always has to say it first in a relationship, it doesn't mean it's not reciprocated..it's a scary thing to say..and on the issue of it being thoughtless that he didn't get a present etc, Oscar would not be the first man to underestimate the importance of these things to a lady.

 

[BritsKate]

Doesn't the message in the Valentines card at least cast doubt on the idea that this was an abusive, non loving relationship? Reeva was a beautiful, sucessful, financially independent woman, she could have been involved with almost anyone she wanted, I'm certain..to cast her as somehow trapped in an abusive situation, I don't buy it...she did not have to write on the card that she loved him, she chose to, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that card will have a big influence on the Judge, very telling that Nel did not have it read out, since it strongly contradicts the relationship he has tired to portray.

Why would Nel present evidence that could be construed to aid Oscar when his job is to instead challenge his account in seeking a conviction? My key word is construed.

I don't want to belabor the point but I believe there's evidence aplenty to suggest and speculate an emotionally abusive relationship. Victims tell their abusers they love them too and even vice versa - and victims most often love their abusers and desperately want the relationship to work.

We know Reeva cared for Oscar and this card is proof of that. Where's his love letters? His card for her? Why did he mock and embarrass her? Why did it take Reeva's mum calling him to make him slow down when Reeva was terrified? Why did he get her birthday wrong? Where was his gift for her? Why do many friends tell the press he was controlling and had a short fuse? Why did he assault another woman? Why does he have a history of screaming at women? Why was Reeva scared of him?

And abuse can and does truly happen to anyone. Beautiful, successful, professional, educated, financially-secure people too. The impression it only happens to certain types of people is something advocacies fight daily.

Now...I don't really know if their relationship was abusive, though I suspect it...but I damned sure know there's not a lot to suggest a loving relationship. Oscar himself contradicts that.

MOO


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[steveml]

I remember Roux pointing a lot of problems he had with the photos.

IIRC there were 2 different cameras and a lot people here thought the time setting on the cameras must not be set the same. Plus the sequencing of the photos not in order between of the different parts of the house.

That's correct. Early in the trial Roux also mentioned that the submitted photo's weren't clearly labelled. They had included them all in an album and on some it was not specified if they were showing evidence 'as found', or 'after movement'. In effect, it meant that the PT could selectively use which ones they best suited their argument.

There was talk about checking timestamps of photo's but I'm not sure what came of this.

 

[kaos]

Rendered all of his fruitless efforts stating Reeva wanting to leave, arguing, not happy etc pointless.

Roux said SO MUCH with SO little. 1 sentence. Very effective.

I don't see that how that negates any possibllity there was an argument. She had the card with her so would already have been written out. It doesn't mean to say that they still never had a massive fight that night.

 

[Interested Bystander]

This pain patch has been bothering me a bit .. I know of a number of people who have back probs, etc, and they have been prescribed morphine patches. I don't know, obv, what kind of patch OP had but it's something I've been wondering about .. and something which could've affected his mood/temper .. and something which either may not have shown up in tests (being in patch form as opposed to intravenous) or they discounted because it was a prescribed as opposed to recreational drug. It may not be a morphine patch, but just that they do seem to be quite commonly prescribed nowadays and widely used, so it was something which crossed my mind.

I read somewhere that it was red physio tape. This is where a physiotherapist tapes an area for various reasons.

http://www.physioroom.com/product/P...y_I_Y_Strip_Tape_Red_5cm_x_5m/3366/39267.html

 

[Cherwell]

Rendered all of his fruitless efforts stating Reeva wanting to leave, arguing, not happy etc pointless.

Roux said SO MUCH with SO little. 1 sentence. Very effective.

For me, it only focuses attention on his apparent failure to get her anything for Valentines Day.