Trial Discussion Thread #3 - 14.03.08-09, Weekend

[minor4th]

A thousand things up for consideration, but I think little matters until the state can resolve the two sets of sounds Dr. Stipp heard. In my mind that is clear reasonable doubt, unless adequately explained.

Me too. That is the biggest factor weighing against the state right now.

 

[Carol70]

Hi,

I've been following this case from the start, and recently stumbled upon these comments under the articles, which I think are very interesting and could perhaps provide with a motive?

I was wondering what you guys make of them? These comments certainly paint a very different picture of Reeva and Oscar's relationship!

http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/reeva-and-oscars-parents-still-tussling-over-settlement.htm

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/hougaard-denies-sms-to-reeva-1.1583956#.UxsLGn-9KSP

Thanks for the links, I've just read all the comments and quite frankly , wish I didn't. I have a lot to say about Reevas parents but they are not relevant to the case so wont but SA can be very small and Reevas uncle attends the church up the road from me. My daughters best friend and her family attends the church too. I will only say that I have viewed all the magazine covers etc on our shelves with the steenkamps faces on with distaste. After reading those comments, I feel more sad for Reeva than ever.

 

[JuneBug67]

Exactly!

:seeya: Shady!

I think it assumes too much. What if Reeva was sitting in a protective curl of sorts? In that position she might have slumped against a wall but not crumpled to the floor, and with head in hands and bent towards her legs potentially, all her entry wounds would have been within inches from each other.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have just had a lightbulb moment. If OP had such a painful shoulder that it required strapping and he felt he had to change sides of the bed, how come he was able to smash down a door with a cricket bat?

 

[Estelle]

I think it assumes too much. What if Reeva was sitting in a protective curl of sorts? In that position she might have slumped against a wall but not crumpled to the floor, and with head in hands and bent towards her legs potentially, all her entry wounds would have been within inches from each other.

I do not know where I read it but the article said that it is now believed that Reeva was standing pushing back the door.

 

[Carol70]

Oscar rang the guardhouse at that time not Netcare. Also OP did not speak to the guard during that call. The guard only heard him crying.

Haha, I'm beginning to think a lot of people have me on ignore but here goes..again

Roux stood up, in front of a judge, in a court of law, and said OP had called Netcare at 3.20am and then blasted Botha for not doing his job and confirming it himself. I HIGHLY doubt Roux would have said that if he had not called Netcare to confirm, checked phone records and/or OP had not made the call. I imagine that would be akin to perjury or such. And I would imagine, that if OP called the netcare 999 emergency and not his nearest netcare facility, there could and should be a recording of that call. Let's hope!!

 

[minor4th]

Thanks for the links, I've just read all the comments and quite frankly , wish I didn't. I have a lot to say about Reevas parents but they are not relevant to the case so wont but SA can be very small and Reevas uncle attends the church up the road from me. My daughters best friend and her family attends the church too. I will only say that I have viewed all the magazine covers etc on our shelves with the steenkamps faces on with distaste. After reading those comments, I feel more sad for Reeva than ever.

Wow, those comments are extremely harsh, and that is sad. Having said that, I had non idea about any of these people or the backstory - is it true that Oscar had broken up with Reeva? What is known about her?

 

[Patagonia]

No, I did not read comments.
But we know Reeva's friends and family say they were not so close or in love.

Someone posted a link to an MSM piece that says Reeva's friend Sam Greyvanstein who had earleir said they were in love and might have gotten married [or such] has now changed her mind about this.

The comments are the reason I posted the links, because they paint completely the opposite picture of the nature of their relationship (both media's and Oscar's).
[modsnip]

Comments are from here: http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/hougaard-denies-sms-to-reeva-1.1583956#.UxtA2fldVz7
[modsnip]
I apologize for such a long post, but I thought you would be interested in this. It certainly seems to show he had lied in his affidavit... about them being ''deeply in love''...

 

[JuneBug67]

I do not know where I read it but the article said that it is now believed that Reeva was standing pushing back the door.

I'm not sure if I'm hallucinating, but I thought during court conversation with the judge and others in was mentioned that the prosecution's theory was going to be that she was "not sitting on the toilet, she was sitting on the magazine rack." Though that didn't necessarily refer to the moments when the shots were fired I suppose. It may just be intended to be an argument that she never went to the toilet room with intentions of using the toilet. I had theorized last year that she was standing against the door when shot, first in the thigh, then in the head and hand as she collapsed downwards. So that is certainly plausible to me.

 

[Patagonia]

These are from under a different article (if someone wants to read more of them: http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/reeva-and-oscars-parents-still-tussling-over-settlement.htm )
[modsnip]
The way they speak of Reeva is by all means disgusting, and I certainly dislike (to put it mildly) speaking in such a way about a dead person who cannot defend themselves, but I think these comments might be important for the case, as they possibly provide Prosecution with a motive.

And there are MANY comments like these around the internet... apparently from the people who knew both of them very well..

I wonder if any of this will come out during the trial...

p.s. I apologize for any speling & grammar mistakes, I am not a native speaker, so bare with me, please

 

[shane13]

I have just had a lightbulb moment. If OP had such a painful shoulder that it required strapping and he felt he had to change sides of the bed, how come he was able to smash down a door with a cricket bat?

And carry Reeva down the stairs, don't forget.

 

[JuneBug67]

I have just had a lightbulb moment. If OP had such a painful shoulder that it required strapping and he felt he had to change sides of the bed, how come he was able to smash down a door with a cricket bat?

It's definitely a great question that should be put to him. But I think it's easy to imagine adrenaline and terror overriding awareness of and concern about pain, too.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I think it assumes too much. What if Reeva was sitting in a protective curl of sorts? In that position she might have slumped against a wall but not crumpled to the floor, and with head in hands and bent towards her legs potentially, all her entry wounds would have been within inches from each other.

Forensics indicates that she was standing, facing the door. I think both parties accept that as factual.

She probably felt safe behind the door and would not have believed that OP would do such a thing as shoot her, therefore no need to try to hide within the cubicle. Poor Reeva.

 

[Patagonia]

Thanks for the links, I've just read all the comments and quite frankly , wish I didn't. I have a lot to say about Reevas parents but they are not relevant to the case so wont but SA can be very small and Reevas uncle attends the church up the road from me. My daughters best friend and her family attends the church too. I will only say that I have viewed all the magazine covers etc on our shelves with the steenkamps faces on with distaste. After reading those comments, I feel more sad for Reeva than ever.

Yes, I agree.

But after reading all that, I am even more reluctant to believe Oscar's version of events....

It seems to me that the most likely scenario would be that they fought, he was provoked by something she said, and in extreme rage, deliberately shot her...

p.s. I apologize once again for copy&paste of the comments, I thought nobody would read them otherwise... I hope that it's not against the rules here

 

[atthelake]

A thousand things up for consideration, but I think little matters until the state can resolve the two sets of sounds Dr. Stipp heard. In my mind that is clear reasonable doubt, unless adequately explained.

Respectfully, I don't understand why it is clear reasonable doubt for the need to resolve. Those of us who follow trials know well that eye/ear witnesses may be inaccurate, and have to put together what is common to all witnesses to infer with logic.

The doctor was woken up first and heard two sets of noises as perhaps he was closer and heard (it appears) the first set of noises then the second which all the other earwitnesses heard. It does not matter to me that there is an issue with the count as I previously stated. And it doesn't matter which came first, the stick or the gun. Either way, she is heard to be screaming before/during all of it. It is CLEAR to me at this time - yet open to future evidence - that Oscar knew therefore she was behind that door.

To me, it's that simple. Any and all discrepancies to which was first - the stick or the gun, is moot to me. Same with the number of sounds. MOOT.

Again, Either way, she is heard to be screaming before/during all of it. Which leads me to the conclusion that Oscar knew therefore she was behind that door.

And as ShadyLady mentioned, if the shot to the head came first, she would have at least dropped and the other shots to her elbow/hip... well, we'll wait for forensics to show what the angles would had to have been if that was the case... and I cannot at this time even imagine how the defense will put forth that confusion to the judge to explain it away.

We'll see.. but this is my current thinking... open to future evidence and testimony of course.

 

[minor4th]

These are from under a different article (if someone wants to read more of them: http://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/reeva-and-oscars-parents-still-tussling-over-settlement.htm )



The way they speak of Reeva is by all means disgusting, and I certainly dislike (to put it mildly) speaking in such a way about a dead person who cannot defend themselves, but I think these comments might be important for the case, as they possibly provide Prosecution with a motive.

And there are MANY comments like these around the internet... apparently from the people who knew both of them very well..

I wonder if any of this will come out during the trial...

p.s. I apologize for any speling & grammar mistakes, I am not a native speaker, so bare with me, please

I have to agree with you in theory

 

[Interested Bystander]

Haha, I'm beginning to think a lot of people have me on ignore but here goes..again

Roux stood up, in front of a judge, in a court of law, and said OP had called Netcare at 3.20am and then blasted Botha for not doing his job and confirming it himself. I HIGHLY doubt Roux would have said that if he had not called Netcare to confirm, checked phone records and/or OP had not made the call. I imagine that would be akin to perjury or such. And I would imagine, that if OP called the netcare 999 emergency and not his nearest netcare facility, there could and should be a recording of that call. Let's hope!!

Things have moved on a great deal since the Bail Hearing. At that time they had not got evidence of the timings. Roux was quoting what OP had told him. Yesterday and the day before, in court, under oath, the times of the calls and whether any were made were discussed. Even Roux quoted the timings.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Apart from OP's alleged paranoid fear that night , why are we to believe that Reeva felt the same in the loo when OP was shouting for her to call the police and his voice appraoching toward her and that she kept silent while being killed violently? .. It was mentioned in the affi that bedroom door was locked and if Reeva got up and went to the loo passing thru the bathroom from where an intruder would ever come in? From the sky ? All of these nonsense things are too much . We don't know the reason but it's clear as day that OP murdered Reeva in cold blood IMO ...

So trying to fit all those heard woman's screams was in fact OP's own voice , awaikened neighbors, shoulder injuries and switching sides , OP changing affidavits or whatever and 2 fans and pitch darks and fully closed curtains and slides and Reeava's clothes on and hidden 5th phone and forgotten password , Reeva's alleged silence and , yelling 'Help help help' but in fact not calling anyone , everhthing is fine (!) , so many coverups I can't count .. I have never heard so much weird and absurd version of events altogether in a case ..More laughable is the efforts to paint this version to an innocent OP and accident format .. Comeon guys noone is stupid .. Whether you accept it or not golden boy is in fact a tin garbage boy and disgraced himself to the whole world online and a human being in no way can shoot 4 times thru a closed door to another human being otherwise that is murder .Home invasions being common in SA , being vulnerable or paranoid is not an excuse imo.

 

[Patagonia]

Wow, those comments are extremely harsh, and that is sad. Having said that, I had non idea about any of these people or the backstory - is it true that Oscar had broken up with Reeva? What is known about her?

I would also like to know more from the people from SA who knew them personally...

Any input would be much appreciated

Before this, I have never even heard of Oscar, much less Reeva, so I have no prior opinion about them (I'm from Croatia and not much into sports), but there are so many people on Twitter who say the same things (like in those comments), and the level of hatred toward Reeva is truly bloodcurdling...

It seems like the majority of them don't even care whether it was deliberate or not, they just want him acquitted, and they are quite open about it too...

To me, that is beyond comprehension... because even if she was all the things they say about here, she certainly didn't deserve to die like that

 

[Carol70]

Wow, those comments are extremely harsh, and that is sad. Having said that, I had non idea about any of these people or the backstory - is it true that Oscar had broken up with Reeva? What is known about her?

I have no idea if they were broken up or any nature of their relationship..I did mention this last year in old threads but I had never heard of her before the shooting, and never seen her in any magazines( and I do follow all SA news channels including the entertainment sections.)She was not on the brink of stardom as suggested and the telly show she was in, was in fact being shown on sabc TV which no one watches anyway. No one I know was going to watch the tropica show, never heard it being promoted anywhere, I don't need to go on.