Trial Discussion Thread #30

[TipDog]

Maybe. Like I said, that charge makes no sense to me.

But that's what the lawyers seem to think.

Or maybe not.

I'm thinking that CH is a given, but only time will tell.

 

[molly333]

Why would you leave the bed (room), to go to the bathroom where supposed intruder is heard???

She was in the bathroom when her boyfriend started screaming about intruders from the other room. She had no idea what was going on.

Locking herself in the toilet is the prudent thing to do.

Hence the door slam.

Hence the locked door.

Hence standing at the door, listening.

Oh, do you mean Oscar? Oscar is being the protector of the castle, and he can't run into the hallway with his stumps, or retreat downstairs.

 

[G.bng]

His actions after the 'fact' were more damning that anything that came before.

I'm waiting for the Standers on the cross. I believe Gerrie is as well.

Gerrie alluded to Oscar 'covering up' and trying to protect his guilty act and conscience when Oscar was on the stand. He said, "You didn't want Mr Baba there". Considering Clarice Stander was blocking Baba at the front door and running the door like a bouncer, she and her daddy have quite a few questions to answer.

Personally, I reckon Oscar wanted Reeva's body out of the house. Bags/rope etc. He wanted the Stander to take her somewhere (hospital etc) allowing him time at his home to 'clean up upstairs'; before the 'crowds' arrived.

That was his intention.

And for that alone he belongs here --------> :jail:

Didn't someone say Stander was in the gallery last week, in which case not sure there will even be a chief, unless witnesses can be in court prior to giving testimony in SA? And Nel stated he was satisfied OP's account after the shooting was as he said so why would the defence need to call him.

That said on CNN they say Stander is the next witness but maybe it was Sky that said it was their ballistics guy and Roux said next witness would need a day or more so not sure Stander would have enough for a whole day.

 

[TorisMom003]

Concerning the boat accident and what injuries OP suffered, I have bookmarked the following video to start where that accident is talked about. In this part OP shows off his xrays and cat scans. I have tried to find the entire interview that this was taken from and have not been able to find it anywhere. If someone else knows where to find it, please share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hj8TF4MrO8Q#t=2198

The full interview I am looking for is the BBC Inside Sports interview.

 

[soozieqtips]

She was in the bathroom when her boyfriend started screaming about intruders from the other room. She had no idea what was going on.

Locking herself in the toilet is the prudent thing to do.

Hence the door slam.

Hence the locked door.

Hence standing at the door, listening.

BBM - She'd slam the door and give her location away to the intruders, would she? I don't think so! Was it you who posted that she'd have kept very quiet, or was that someone else?

 

[Hope4More]

BBM (in red) - and then after screaming for help - Baba called... and OP suddenly didn't need any help because everything was fine!!

Gee. Maybe he was in shock after accidentally killing his girlfriend. And/or maybe for a few minutes he wondered if there was any way to conceal what he done, by accident, as he had to have known that his life was never going to be the same.

Once, long ago, I called the police to report domestic violence. I was single, living alone in an apartment and in the apt next to me I heard horrible screams, a man raging, things being broken, and what sounded like someone being literally thrown against the wall.

When the police came the abuser answered the door and said everything was fine, that he had just had " a little argument" with his girlfriend. The police didn't ask to see her, nor to enter the apartment. They accepted his word and left.

That was just joe blow. Somehow I imagine police would accept OP' s word and walk away had he chosen to take that route. He didn't.

One doesn't have to like or respect the man to try to see alternative reasons for each factoid in this case. Just requires taking a step back and not assuming every single thing that happened was because he is a Guilty Bad Man.

 

[TorisMom003]

She was in the bathroom when her boyfriend started screaming about intruders from the other room. She had no idea what was going on.

Locking herself in the toilet is the prudent thing to do.

Hence the door slam.

Hence the locked door.

Hence standing at the door, listening.

Oh, do you mean Oscar? Oscar is being the protector of the castle, and he can't run into the hallway with his stumps, or retreat downstairs.

BBM

Not sure why this part is being repeated over and over as if it is fact, because it isn't. OP never said that he was screaming about intruders. OP said that he yelled "Get out of my house!" and "Get the F out of my house!". At no time on the stand did he ever tell Reeva that an intruder was in the house.

 

[molly333]

BBM - She'd slam the door and give her location away to the intruders, would she? I don't think so! Was it you who posted that she'd have kept very quiet, or was that someone else?

If I could think about it, I wouldn't slam the door.

But, in a panic, nobody's perfect.

It's just a little detail that fits his story well.

[Of course, she also might slam the door if he were chasing her.]

 

[TorisMom003]

OP lists his injuries from the boat accident in the BBC Inside Sports interview as:

Broken cheekbone,
Broke the floor bone of his eye,
Broke part of his nose,
Broke bridge of his nose,
Jaw wired shut

While showing the interviewer his MRIs and Cat scans and explaining his injuries, OP is smiling like it was no big deal and even jokes that once his jaw was no longer wired shut (about a week before it was unwired) that he has been eating steak non stop.

 

[soozieqtips]

Gee. Maybe he was in shock after accidentally killing his girlfriend. And/or maybe for a few minutes he wondered if there was any way to conceal what he done, by accident, as he had to have known that his life was never going to be the same.

Once, long ago, I called the police to report domestic violence. I was single, living alone in an apartment and in the apt next to me I heard horrible screams, a man raging, things being broken, and what sounded like someone being literally thrown against the wall.

When the police came the abuser answered the door and said everything was fine, that he had just had " a little argument" with his girlfriend. The police didn't ask to see her, nor to enter the apartment. They accepted his word and left.

That was just joe blow. Somehow I imagine police would accept OP' s word and walk away had he chosen to take that route. He didn't.

One doesn't have to like or respect the man to try to see alternative reasons for each factoid in this case. Just requires taking a step back and not assuming every single thing that happened was because he is a Guilty Bad Man.

BBM - So OP screams for help from the balcony... and then tells security everything's fine? If he screams for help, then he's expecting someone to help, isn't he? So how does that fit in with 'needing a few minutes to conceal what he'd done'? He'd already called for help... in his version.

 

[molly333]

BBM

Not sure why this part is being repeated over and over as if it is fact, because it isn't. OP never said that he was screaming about intruders. OP said that he yelled "Get out of my house!" and "Get the F out of my house!". At no time on the stand did he ever tell Reeva that an intruder was in the house.

I know. He screamed at her to call the police and he was clearly screaming at an unknown person to get out of his house [read: intruder].

That's what she would have heard.

 

[soozieqtips]

OP lists his injuries from the boat accident in the BBC Inside Sports interview as:

Broken cheekbone,
Broke the floor bone of his eye,
Broke part of his nose,
Broke bridge of his nose,
Jaw wired shut

While showing the interviewer his MRIs and Cat scans and explaining his injuries, OP is smiling like it was no big deal and even jokes that once his jaw was no longer wired shut (about a week before it was unwired) that he has been eating steak non stop.

Bet Roux wishes his jaw was wired shut on the stand!

 

[molly333]

OP lists his injuries from the boat accident in the BBC Inside Sports interview as:

Broken cheekbone,
Broke the floor bone of his eye,
Broke part of his nose,
Broke bridge of his nose,
Jaw wired shut

While showing the interviewer his MRIs and Cat scans and explaining his injuries, OP is smiling like it was no big deal and even jokes that once his jaw was no longer wired shut (about a week before it was unwired) that he has been eating steak non stop.

He basically smashed in one side of his face. What a mess.

That would have required a lot of pain killers. But, there's nothing about addiction, right?

 

[TorisMom003]

I know. He screamed at her to call the police and he was clearly screaming at an unknown person to get out of his house [read: intruder].

That's what she would have heard.

But he never said that there was an intruder to Reeva, according to him. Which means, if (BIG if) he is telling the truth that Reeva would have no idea why in the world he was yelling to her (since she was the only other person in the house) to get the F out of his house. And since he never said to Reeva, according to him, that there was an intruder in the house it makes it more likely that she would question him as to what was going on.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

He basically smashed in one side of his face. What a mess.

That would have required a lot of pain killers. But, there's nothing about addiction, right?

Not that I know of but then I can't find the full BBC interview. It's as if it has been scrubbed from the net.

 

[Hope4More]

Gee again. Reeva goes to the loo and while there hears the frantic sound of OP running down the hallway on his stumps- which was odd, since he typically would have them on-- and he's screaming get the f out of my house.

If I heard my able bodied hubby yelling those words I would not need to hear the word Intruder to get that an intruder must be in the house. If I were in the loo I would lock it too and stay as quiet as I could.

 

[TorisMom003]

Didn't someone say Stander was in the gallery last week, in which case not sure there will even be a chief, unless witnesses can be in court prior to giving testimony in SA? And Nel stated he was satisfied OP's account after the shooting was as he said so why would the defence need to call him.

That said on CNN they say Stander is the next witness but maybe it was Sky that said it was their ballistics guy and Roux said next witness would need a day or more so not sure Stander would have enough for a whole day.

Did they say if it was Mr. Stander or Ms. Stander?

 

[TorisMom003]

Gee again. Reeva goes to the loo and while there hears the frantic sound of OP running down the hallway on his stumps- which was odd, since he typically would have them on-- and he's screaming get the f out of my house.

If I heard my able bodied hubby yelling those words I would not need to hear the word Intruder to get that an intruder must be in the house. If I were in the loo I would lock it too and stay as quiet as I could.

Well let's take what the neighbors have said and add it to the mix as well. Screaming that began before the first shots and stopped after the last shot from the second set of shots. A woman screaming to boot. But sure, we can ignore them and instead go with what the man that is on trial for murder said was one of his versions while on the stand. Never mind the fact that that man has lied under oath.

MOO

ETA: OP also changed the "running towards the danger" to "going slowly" like in stealth mode.

 

[TorisMom003]

LOL. I'm not messing with you. Did you see him on the stand?

I think the Judge thought he was going to have a nervous breakdown in open court.

No one that was not in the courtroom saw OP on the stand. OP asked to not be shown on video, wanted his voice heard only.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I have been really bemused that some still seem minded to take OP's version of events as a baseline for what actually happened.

His bail affidavit, statement at the start of the trial and witness box testimony were each incredible in their own way, with more and more 'detail' being added to try and counter the evidence. His evasiveness, selective memory and outright lying in the witness box all serve to make his story even more suspect in my view.

A number of FMs have said that the simplest explanation is usually the truth and I really am minded to agree.

If you have five separate witnesses who heard a woman's terrified screams followed by what they thought were four gunshots, then silence and around about the same time you have a dead woman who was shot at four times, then the simplest explanation is that those witnesses heard the murder of the dead woman.

The above explanation requires no suspension of disbelief or common sense, no fabrication of fanciful reasons to explain why the murder suspect didn't do a number of perfectly obvious things which would have rendered the actions he took in his 'version' unnecessary.

No need to start wondering whether the introduction of a cricket bat is a serious explanation for the sounds. Basic physics says that gun shots are louder and carry further than any cricket bat hitting a wooden door. It therefore seems highly unlikely that only one person heard the gunfire (Dr Stipp) but they all heard the cricket bat. I believe they all heard Reeva screaming for her life and being shot dead at around 3:17.

I posted a link to this site before - I think it is probably worth re-posting....

http://www.dbxacoustics.com/acoustic-questions-pistorius-case/

No need to wonder why, knowing that Reeva was awake, OP did not ask her whether she had heard a sound, or at least wait for a response to his alleged instruction to call the police.

No need to wonder why someone who was too scared to turn the light on started screaming like a woman whilst approaching the threat that terrified him so much.

No need to marvel over the fact that while citing the slippery tiles on the hall outside the bedroom as a reason not to leave that way, OP chose to take a loaded an cocked gun to the tiled bathroom.

No need to think up explanations for why the bedroom and bathroom looked like a bomb had hit them.

No need to try and find an explanation for how OP could possibly hear any movement in the toilet cubicle while he was screaming

No need to wonder why an ambulance wasn't called immediately and why the security guard was assured that everything was fine.

No need to find an innocent explanation for why the DT felt it necessary to remove vital evidence from the crime scene (telephone)

Really - one explanation requires no mental gymnastics or fanciful fabrications- the other requires a degree of dismissal of discrepancies and explaining away which is beyond reason.

Just my personal opinion as always.

Thank you for the excellent link. Certainly more sophisticated than the "re-enactment" we heard in court.

I agree with your "no need" list. However, I think that many WS posters (I included) are using irony when questioning OP's ridiculous reports of the events.