Trial Discussion Thread #30

[jay-jay]

BBM. Excerpt from Post by Soozieqtips No:1034
"exactly. Can you imagine how intimidating it would for witnesses if someone as powerful as OP tried to persuade them to change their minds about testifying?..."
The power of being SA Olympic Gold Medalist (Para-olympics), a South African icon.

.. that and the possibility of the threat of having your legs broken .. :whistle:

 

[Val1]

I think it's a reasonable inference, because OP didn't speak to him. Either he misdialled and was intending to call someone else, or the button was pressed accidentally.



The girl was named in the tabloids, and photos of her were printed. If it wasn't true, I would expect HER to deny it. Wouldn't you?

(People have talked here about OP's people not denying it, but I don't attach any importance to that either way.)

http://nypost.com/2014/02/28/pistorius-dating-co-ed-while-awaiting-murder-trial/?_ga=1.75351124.734417752.1398163833

Pistorius, 27, met Malan in December in Mozambique, where the teen was vacationing with her parents and younger brother, according to the Sun.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-03-28-oscar-pistorius-have-passport-will-travel/

Despite Roux’s denial that Pistorius was looking for a holiday, earlier this month it was reported that the Pistorius family was keen for the Paralympian to spend some time on his uncle Arnold’s farm in Mozambique to avoid the media spotlight.

 

[jay-jay]

Please consider this perspective (and pretending that OP's version is true) - the courageous act that evening would have been finding out exactly where the woman he wanted to protect was located and getting her out of the room to safety, whatever that took. His options were: physically finding her and making sure she heard his instructions, telling her to get to the bedroom door as he got the gun (so she'd be aware he had one), shielding her while unlocking the bedroom door and then having her run from the danger to call the police. Then, and only then, had he wanted to go face any intruder, he'd have made sure she could get to safety should the intruder over power him.

Anything less than the above is illogical, reckless, cowardly, stupid and, in my opinion, unbelievable. And...it resulted in the death of the very woman he claims he was trying to protect.

Yes, and imo, the only courageous act/s that night came from Dr Stipp and Baba who arrived at that house not knowing what the hell they were walking into or what danger was going to present to them.

 

[shane13]

Yes, same here.

I personally came to this case from the perspective of actually wanting OP's story to be true, simply for Reeva's sake and for her family and friend's sake .. because out of the two horrific scenarios, his version would be the 'best' of the two for them to have to come to terms with, and also Reeva would've been completely oblivious up until the point he shot her .. so that was the version I really did want to believe, not for OP's sake, but for Reeva and her family and friend's sake. But none of them believe it now, since the minute he got up on that stand and started lying through his teeth about every single incident right from the firing of the gun in Tashas, to the ammunition in his safe, to the killing of Reeva that night .. and I don't believe his story either, even though I dearly wanted it to be true .. and so did Reeva's family .. June Steenkamp even went so far as to say she was prepared to forgive him and one point, before the trial, but she has now retracted that statement having seen the way he has lied, and under oath too.

BBM
Me too.
A very likeable man in his public personna, at times humble, self-effacing.
But from what we know now maybe some of that was due to earlier acting lessons? [Worth milllions.]

As with nearly all matters with Oscar, we don't know for sure.

 

[kittychi]

The stolen watch.
I believe it was someone from 'Team' Oscar. It was actually an ingenious thought. Take the focus away from Oscar and the ACTUAL crime scene. Put the focus on the 'thieving, incompetent, tampering' policemen.

This 'smart' defense (to use at a later stage to make the police look bad, thereby putting their WHOLE investigation along with their observations into doubt) tactic would not have come from Oscar.
This was a smarter brain than his at work. A brain that knows how to 'deflect' and shift focus from what is ACTUALLY relevant.

I won't say who I think it is. But it's someone who was well aware of the implications of such a 'move', and how these implications could assist the accused at a later stage. It is also someone who was on the scene legitimately - and perhaps left alone for a little too long, because of 'who' he was and the expected 'ethics' of him and his 'sort'.

Cape Town: I always wondered if Hilton Botha was riding both sides of the fence, beginning with entering the crime scene without protective footwear. You don't have to confirm or not, I just wanted to add my :twocents: .

 

[TrueDetective]

When an act happens, there is nothing 'balanced' about it.

I can see why you snipped what I wrote about JFK assassination, it answers your seemingly naive ending. {No insult intended]

You need to find onine the quote from CIA Director Colby admitting that the entirety of the MSM in the US was under the control of the CIA.


And I've alrady made clear about reporters not tweeting on some things like Nel and Roux discussing the 16 days of disappearance of the 5th phone.

All that I have written on this including much in the last few hours proves how this case is controlled from on high and on certain matters like the 5th phone, thus the collusion-like cracks in a certain door--can be looked into. ©Shane13

I'm not naive Shane. The question should have been asked and so I asked it.

If we suspected or accepted that there was a conspiracy or coverup at the heart of this case, do we then have to believe that it also lies at the heart of the trial and that all parties are complicit?

If we accept that there is a fact or topic being withheld from the court record that is one question to be discussed. If we then have to accept that the entirety of the court and the trial circus - media, both mainstream and alternative, all staff, families, friends, spectators present have been instructed not to leak this information and subsequently have all successfully not leaked this information in this age of instant social media with the world watching, people keen to make a buck, loads of people surrounding the case searching for the truth etc.. that is another.

I don't believe that is possible. That's the reason I asked the question. I think its an important thing to fully consider and calling me naive is insulting. I just didn't want to comment on the JFK stuff because this case is more enough for me to handle. We know MSM are mostly shills but I don't see how it's as applicable in this trial and that's what I wanted to understand - the reasons and motive for such a coverup that has scared or fooled everybody (except a few of us in here). Hope this makes more sense now.

You know I think some of these things stink. You have put a ton of effort into researching this case and I fully support you, I'm always supporting you, others too. We agree with you.

<modsnip>
:loveyou:

Anyway, fancy a cuppa?

 

[Cherwell]

I have to say I do find the decision not to broadcast Prof Saayman's testimony inexplicable. It seemed that this was entirely at Saayman's own request, but I don't understand his reasons since the autopsy findings have been discussed by other witnesses, and photographs shown in court. I can't see that suppressing his testimony did anything to preserve the dignity of the deceased, or whatever it was he said. It all seems a bit pointless now.

All that has resulted is that we have no means of ascertaining his exact words, but have to rely on paraphrased reports. It's a pity that the judge agreed to Saayman's request, and I would be interested to know what her thoughts are now regarding the decision.

 

[shane13]

Cape Town: I always wondered if Hilton Botha was riding both sides of the fence, beginning with entering the crime scene without protective footwear. You don't have to confirm or not, I just wanted to add my :twocents: .

well the last post I think from Cape was her response to my posting of the full logic of taking the 5th phone.

She said she'd have a 'long think' and get back to me/us.

We await.

re your quote from Cape, I too some time ago wrote that the police 'bumbling' like Motha with OP's gun, are highly likely delberate and meant to aid OP should a judge 'decide' to toss the whole matter--which happens in SA a bit for this very reason.

Botha is very low level and made the scapegoat all around. I have advised to focus on the fact that he revealed that higher up cops allowed Carl and or Oldwage [or someone else] to remove the .38 ammo and the flash memory.
I say let us focus, if possible on the higher-ups.

 

[Really?]

I am in the 'always' thought OP the killer was guilty" from the get go.

I only saw quips of him on the news, but, from what I heard he seemed like a whiny dude who is a sore loser........fast forward to the Valentine's Day news broadcast about him shooting his girlfriend. boom. there it is.....guilty.

what are the odds that this murder and mistaken intruder story happened on Valentines Day???? Really?

 

[wb180]

Yes, and imo, the only courages act/s that night came from Dr Stipp and Baba who arrived at that house not knowing what the hell they were walking into or what danger was going to present to them.

Thats a good point. The fact they thought it was a domestic dispute rather than an intruder is telling. If they thought it was a intruder I wonder if Dr Stipp would rush there!

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Good afternoon all. I hope everyone had a good 'bank' holiday yesterday.

I haven't had time to read all the back posts, so I'm not sure if this has even been posted, but it's a very interesting little article.
The stand out for, is what Prof Simpson mentions with regard to the coffee/tea cups not being present in ANY crime scene photos (remembering Oscar told the court, that Reeva had brought tea for both him and her upstairs, before they 'retreated' to bed)

I forgot about this statement by Oscar, and I also certainly didn't see any tea cups or mugs in any photos?

The insight re: the reasons some people 'NEED' Oscar to be innocent is also accurate IMHO.

http://www.health24.com/Columnists/...nt-or-do-you-need-him-to-be-innocent-20140422

An interesting read for sure. Oh, and this morning the SA media is full of denials from the Pistorious family re: Oscar receiving 'drama' coaching. :scared:

 

[jay-jay]

Since Bail Hearing, it has been obvious to me that at least on certan aspects, the 2 sides are working together.

This one runs deep.

Hi shane .. please put me out of my misery on your 'this one runs deep' theory because, whilst I'm never taken in by stuff at face value, I'm not really getting this one. I love nothing better than a good conspiracy (and am still convinced that Diana was bumped off, and still believe that 9/11 was a set up by Bush and nothing will ever change my mind on those two because of the reasons why I believe they happened, not because of how they went about doing it or any of the actual detail of the events themselves) but, I don't understand why, in this case, there would be anything underhand going on .. is OP really that powerful in SA that there would be all this going on behind the scenes in order to protect him and his freedom? Why would they be bothering to do all this just for him .. I'm not really getting that bit :-/

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

well the last post I think from Cape was her response to my posting of the full logic of taking the 5th phone.

She said she'd have a 'long think' and get back to me/us.

We await.

re your quote from Cape, I too some time ago wrote that the police 'bumbling' like Motha with OP's gun, are highly likely delberate and meant to aid OP should a judge 'decide' to toss the whole matter--which happens in SA a bit for this very reason.

Botha is very low level and made the scapegoat all around. I have advised to focus on the fact that he revealed that higher up cops allowed Carl and or Oldwage [or someone else] to remove the .38 ammo and the flash memory.
I say let us focus, if possible on the higher-ups.

Sorry. Cape has only logged on now. I couldn't yesterday. I have prepared a long reply for you, will post it as soon as I have the time to type it. Promise.

I actually find quite a few of your points NOT beyond the realms of the possible. Some of it makes perfect sense, other bits I'm struggling to wrap my head around, possibly because I believe in the reputations and integrity of some of the role players.

Will send you a long post tomorrow - I have more time then. Today has been a timeline of disaster for me.

Sorry, I don't know how to PM yet. (I am a technological dunce all truth be told, as I tend to deal with people more than 'machines) so if anyone could help me out? Thanks.

 

[steveml]

I am in the 'always' thought OP the killer was guilty" from the get go.

I only saw quips of him on the news, but, from what I heard he seemed like a whiny dude who is a sore loser........fast forward to the Valentine's Day news broadcast about him shooting his girlfriend. boom. there it is.....guilty.

what are the odds that this murder and mistaken intruder story happened on Valentines Day???? Really?

I guess we don't need to bother with trials then. Just lock up every whiny dude who's a sore loser.

I can't believe John McEnroe's still walking the streets to this day.

 

[shane13]

Sorry. Cape has only logged on now. I couldn't yesterday. I have prepared a long reply for you, will post it as soon as I have the time to type it. Promise.

I actually find quite a few of your points NOT beyond the realms of the possible.

Thanks. Don't stress yourself, I like to say, "after all it's only a matter of life and death."

I/we await Cape.

 

[Mango33]

http://nypost.com/2014/02/28/pistorius-dating-co-ed-while-awaiting-murder-trial/?_ga=1.75351124.734417752.1398163833


http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-03-28-oscar-pistorius-have-passport-will-travel/

Every report I have seen on "OP's new girlfriend" is still referring back to that single initial report in The Sun tabloid. Doesn't give me much confidence in the truth of this. JMO

(And she has not appeared at the trial court, contrary to some rumors. I have seen no credible link for that.)

 

[steveml]

Sorry. Cape has only logged on now. I couldn't yesterday. I have prepared a long reply for you, will post it as soon as I have the time to type it. Promise.

I actually find quite a few of your points NOT beyond the realms of the possible.

You never got back to me regarding my recent question.

Being born and bred in SA, what is your common dialect?

 

[jay-jay]

Hi shane .. please put me out of my misery on your 'this one runs deep' theory because, whilst I'm never taken in by stuff at face value, I'm not really getting this one. I love nothing better than a good conspiracy (and am still convinced that Diana was bumped off, and still believe that 9/11 was a set up by Bush and nothing will ever change my mind on those two because of the reasons why I believe they happened, not because of how they went about doing it or any of the actual detail of the events themselves) but, I don't understand why, in this case, there would be anything underhand going on .. is OP really that powerful in SA that there would be all this going on behind the scenes in order to protect him and his freedom? Why would they be bothering to do all this just for him .. I'm not really getting that bit :-/

.. just catching up, I have since spotted your post here which goes into further explanation Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Trial Discussion Thread #30 .. but I still don't get why OP would even be considered important enough for any kind of cover up?

 

[zwiebel]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted. Oscar's family have denied allegations he took acting lessons before taking the stand.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ting-lessons-before-taking-stand-9273625.html

 

[zwiebel]

The accusation was made here on this SA writer's blog.

http://janiallan.com/2014/04/14/letter-oscar/