Trial Discussion Thread #30

[Cape Town Crim.]

I don't think that was Roux's doing. I think OP, in a failed attempt to outwit Nel's damaging cross, unwittingly undermined his own defense of putative self defense.

I think after Nel demolished OP's version, OP may have realized how unbelievable his version sounds. He then went off script, possibly unaware that he was negating his initial defense position.

A few of SA's top defense chaps have come out and suggested that OP is one of those 'impossible clients'.
Those clients who appear in ones worst dreams.

Oscar does not take to any authority well, even when the authority in question is looking after his best interests. It's simply who and what Pistorious is IMHO.

His attitude towards the police is another :facepalm:. In fact, I did giggle when he just HAD to mention in court that he had instituted a claim against the SAPS for 'wrongful arrest' back in 2008 when the one and only Hylton Botha arrested him for the 'assault' on Taylor Cassidy Memory.
Hylton and Oscar go way back.......

 

[Viper]

I don't think that was Roux's doing. I think OP, in a failed attempt to outwit Nel's damaging cross, unwittingly undermined his own defense of putative self defense.

I think after Nel demolished OP's version, OP may have realized how unbelievable his version sounds. He then went off script, possibly unaware that he was negating his initial defense position.

You say OP unwittingly went off script. I cannot say you are wrong. But I can agree that there was a script. And for OP to be able to sit up there through the hail of questions that Nel was firing at him for days and NOT fall back to using what his script was, well that is unbelievable.

 

[Trooper]

Dixon was already 'signed up' shortly after the shooting. He, Wolmarans, vd Westhuisen and Dr Perumal. Perumal won't testify. Dixon bombed out Gangnam style. Wolmarans and vd Westhuizen to go. (Both ballisticians)

Sadly for Wolmarans and vd Westhuizen; Dixon :facepalm: has already cast huge doubt on the scientific value of any and all tests they will present to the court. I'm sure Wollie will be on the phone to Barry (who is probably holidaying in Kleimond) throughout the 2 weeks.

Unless Barry cancelled his Easter Hols........ :fence:

heh.... maybe they are all 'suffering' in Sun City hoping for a brainwave... Roux has been a bit of a disappointment to me, I had expectations of better and brighter stuff, regardless of his client's obvious unappealing presentation.. this shouldn't be the problem its turning out to be, and the strike rate is 100% fail.. the pathologist, Oscar , and Dixon.. Wollie and Westy will have to pull out all the stops, with bells and whistles... someone has to take the helm.

but even so.. I foresee Our Boy Oscar spending the rest of his days fetching and carrying for Clive Derby-Lewis, maybe even being Clive's backup in any further biffo's Clive gets himself done for.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

A few of SA's top defense chaps have come out and suggested that OP is one of those 'impossible clients'.
Those clients who appear in ones worst dreams.

Oscar does not take to any authority well, even when the authority in question is looking after his best interests. It's simply who and what Pistorious is IMHO.

His attitude towards the police is another :facepalm:. In fact, I did giggle when he just HAD to mention in court that he had instituted a claim against the SAPS for 'wrongful arrest' back in 2008 when the one and only Hylton Botha arrested him for the 'assault' on Taylor Cassidy Memory.
Hylton and Oscar go way back.......

Yes so it is such a shame that Botha picked up the gun and started the ball rolling on crime scene tampering. It was a silly mistake for an experienced police officer to make. Although then again the Disappearing watches would have ensured that anyway .

 

[Trooper]

A few of SA's top defense chaps have come out and suggested that OP is one of those 'impossible clients'.
Those clients who appear in ones worst dreams.

Oscar does not take to any authority well, even when the authority in question is looking after his best interests. It's simply who and what Pistorious is IMHO.

His attitude towards the police is another :facepalm:. In fact, I did giggle when he just HAD to mention in court that he had instituted a claim against the SAPS for 'wrongful arrest' back in 2008 when the one and only Hylton Botha arrested him for the 'assault' on Taylor Cassidy Memory.
Hylton and Oscar go way back.......

its been like watching a peculiar compulsion play out re Hilton Botha and Oscar.. even Roux has got entangled in it, to his probable surprise... how Oscar longs for Hilton to be his protagonist again!!... that sweet victory of the bail hearing.. Oscar wants to relive those heady days!

 

[TrueDetective]

A few of SA's top defense chaps have come out and suggested that OP is one of those 'impossible clients'.
Those clients who appear in ones worst dreams.

Oscar does not take to any authority well, even when the authority in question is looking after his best interests. It's simply who and what Pistorious is IMHO.

His attitude towards the police is another :facepalm:. In fact, I did giggle when he just HAD to mention in court that he had instituted a claim against the SAPS for 'wrongful arrest' back in 2008 when the one and only Hylton Botha arrested him for the 'assault' on Taylor Cassidy Memory.
Hylton and Oscar go way back.......

Makes you wonder why Botha botha'd to head the investigation in the first place. Hindsight and all that.
If only SAPS had full control over the scene. The hypocrisy is that the DT are going to push the whole contamination/disturbed scene etc when it is in fact that THEY were allowed to contaminate it!! Quite a bizarre set of circumstances and one mired in falsities and mistruths.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

heh.... maybe they are all 'suffering' in Sun City hoping for a brainwave... Roux has been a bit of a disappointment to me, I had expectations of better and brighter stuff, regardless of his client's obvious unappealing presentation.. this shouldn't be the problem its turning out to be, and the strike rate is 100% fail.. the pathologist, Oscar , and Dixon.. Wollie and Westy will have to pull out all the stops, with bells and whistles... someone has to take the helm.

but even so.. I foresee Our Boy Oscar spending the rest of his days fetching and carrying for Clive Derby-Lewis, maybe even being Clive's backup in any further biffo's Clive gets himself done for.

That would be rather poetic considering Gerrie Nel prosecuted Clive back in the day.
Are you a South African, living Down Under? Laager.....Sun City etc? :websleuther:

 

[Trooper]

That would be rather poetic considering Gerrie Nel prosecuted Clive back in the day.
Are you a South African, living Down Under? Laager.....Sun City etc? :websleuther:

Ive followed Nel since the Clive trial .. all those years ago.. nice to think of Clive being 74 and still in solitary. And still getting the odd bang around the chops from the other prisoners, too..

not South African but a lover and a visitor many many times of and to SA , ( always avoiding Pretoria if possible ) over a long time..

 

[sorrell skye]

Yes. Roux had a year to pound in to OPs head exactly what he was supposed to say in his testimony. Throughout his testimony OP steadfastly answered the questions in the very same way. OP is not the brightest bulb in the box, but he is "fighting for his life" and you can bet everything that he is following his attorneys instructions and advice.

Yes - OP steadfastly answered Nel's questions with rote answers for the majority of his testimony - until Nel had dissected each and every aspect of OP's version to the point that I think even OP himself had begun to doubt that anyone would believe his claim that he had genuinely perceived he was in imminent danger when he shot Reeva.

His putative self defense claim is based on his state of mind at the time of the shooting. Nel hammered the point again and again that OP went toward the perceived danger, rather than away from it. Nel also reminded the Court again and again that OP (who claims to have believed his & Reeva's lives were in danger) at no time confirmed Reeva's whereabouts or ensured that Reeva was safe before firing through the toilet door.

I think Nel made valid points regarding the above, and I think OP realized how implausible his version is, so he took it upon himself to insist that he didn't mean to shoot - claiming he fired accidentally.

Did anyone get a look at Roux when OP made that claim? I'd be willing to bet that Roux was wishing he could have jumped up and told his client to STFU.

 

[Trooper]

That would be rather poetic considering Gerrie Nel prosecuted Clive back in the day.
Are you a South African, living Down Under? Laager.....Sun City etc? :websleuther:

I found it so ironic that Oscar was telling Judge Masipa of his hard life and tough times pre his murdering moment... it seemed to me that a cloud of irony swept over the Gauteng High Court on those days....

The Pistorius family all lined up there , watching and sobbing, praying and swaying, listening to Oscar seemed to be completely oblivious to it !

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Ive followed Nel since the Clive trial .. all those years ago.. nice to think of Clive being 74 and still in solitary. And still getting the odd bang around the chops from the other prisoners, too..

not South African but a lover and a visitor many many times of and to SA , ( always avoiding Pretoria if possible ) over a long time..

:floorlaugh: And you should continue to avoid Pretoria at all costs.

When we were younger and heading up north for a holiday from CT, my father would drive an additional 75km's on route to 'Sin City' just to avoid Pretoria and sorrounds :facepalm:

Personally, I find Pretoria to be a prison all on it's own. House arrest in Pretoria is a fitting punishment for any criminal (and I can't handle The Bulls - rugby team - either :truce

I trust Cape Town is one of your top South African spots - hope so!

Yes, Gerrie has hammered a few heavy hitters in his time. Most didn't expect him to successfully prosecute Clive.......or Jackie......and now Oscar. The man doesn't go to court unless he feels he can win.

 

[molly333]

This "head injury" thing is something I find funny, because IIRC he had a severe facial injury, not a head (brain) injury.

The face being attached to the head, it was a very bad head injury, including coma and facial reconstruction.

Most probably included frontal lobe injuries, which would be very relevant to this trial.

 

[Really?]

Yes I am a born, bred Capetonian. (Must be honest, we Capetonians tend to distance ourselves from the rest of the nation in many respects - we seem to think we're on an island of our own). I am in the Cape Winelands, Stellenbosch. Home of the grape :guitar:

Security....... Oscar's security fears were a crock, and although crime is a very real threat (a VERY real threat), folk such as Oscar are far removed from the fears of those living on (for example) The Cape Flats - gang violence/murder etc, OR the bodily harm that takes place within townships in Gauteng etc. Vehicle hijacking is the fear of most in Gauteng - according to my colleagues and friends who live up there; not home invasions as such.

I always find it rather funny when those with the means to protect themselves are often the first to scream, "fear fear fear", yet 'they' were happy to sit back in an upmarket restaurant and hear a shot go off - yet not one of those 'fearful' wealthy South Africans reported it. I realize the police here do not have the finest reputation, but not one person reported it?

I don't stand in judgement of them, but 'fear' and then total 'apathy' towards it when it DOES just leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for a South African such as I. (I'm different I guess).

One thing I do know though, is that the truly crime conscious certainly don't live without burglar bars etc as per OP.

Fear of crime - subjective at best. Even though it is very real, and victims fears of it ARE real, Oscar does not fall into that category IMHO.

Yes. OP had no real fear. He liked to play with his gun. He played with it in his house 'going comando' to that scarey washing machine. I guess he forgot the laundry was on.

OP is a liar. He lies. He speaks Oscar-speak . :jail:
I'd hate to see any other outcome than a prison term,

 

[fox1lady]

One of the guys on the legal panel tried to say it was because he was placed in an induced coma rather than the injury itself but in any event I personally think OP may well have had all his traits long before that bump on the head /face

Wasn't that whole accident his own fault anyway because of irresponsible speeding

 

[weeeva]

Do I detect a hint of bias regarding the Dewani trial which has not even started yet?

 

[Trooper]

:floorlaugh: And you should continue to avoid Pretoria at all costs.

When we were younger and heading up north for a holiday from CT, my father would drive an additional 75km's on route to 'Sin City' just to avoid Pretoria and sorrounds :facepalm:

Personally, I find Pretoria to be a prison all on it's own. House arrest in Pretoria is a fitting punishment for any criminal (and I can't handle The Bulls - rugby team - either :truce

I trust Cape Town is one of your top South African spots - hope so!

Yes, Gerrie has hammered a few heavy hitters in his time. Most didn't expect him to successfully prosecute Clive.......or Jackie......and now Oscar. The man doesn't go to court unless he feels he can win.

yes... I am an habitual attendee at Newlands and Constancia.

Gerri looks so laid back always in the first part of his trial appearance... lots of folks here were concerned... but .. one only has to wait for Nel to get to his definitive part.. his x-examination of defence witnesses.. he is ruthless.

Oscar is small peanuts to Nel.. he's taken on bigger and worse..

 

[nastasya]

The face being attached to the head, it was a very bad head injury, including coma and facial reconstruction.

Most probably included frontal lobe injuries, which would be very relevant to this trial.

Why??

 

[lisasalinger]

Hey Trooper, glad to see you're out on parole! Welcome back! :seeya:

 

[BritsKate]

The face being attached to the head, it was a very bad head injury, including coma and facial reconstruction.



Most probably included frontal lobe injuries, which would be very relevant to this trial.

Again though...by most legal expert's opinions, Oscar's best chance at an acquittal would have been involuntary IF they had supporting evidence. Roux is hardly new to lawyering.

So, they either don't have the evidence to support an involuntary claim or have sat on it until now hoping to somehow implement it into putative, which doesn't and shouldn't need it.

They'd said at the time his brain was functioning normally so I think it likely he made a full recovery and lacks the necessary evidence to support an involuntary defence. They would have, should have, and could have gone that route otherwise.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[Trooper]

The face being attached to the head, it was a very bad head injury, including coma and facial reconstruction.

Most probably included frontal lobe injuries, which would be very relevant to this trial.

it may be .... I emphasis may.. relevant to his sentencing, if Roux brings it up as a mitigating factor. ..its a very very very long shot and may only be applicable to what prison he is incarcerated in. ... its no part of the trial itself.. Oscar should have pleaded guilty due to mental diminishment. but he didn't.. that bird has flown.