minor4th
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stipp also mentions only three bangs [in the second set of noises].
And the first
stipp also mentions only three bangs [in the second set of noises].
Do you know if Aimee took the watch while Reeva's dead body was still lying downstairs? If so, I think that would be a big deal, since Uncle Arnold (or another family member) stressed that they feel Reeva's loss as much as her own family does. I can't see that taking a watch before Reeva has even been removed from the scene indicates any affection for her at all. Same thing with removing things from the safe. The priority seems to have been in taking things or removing things, all while the person they loved as much as Reeva's own family loved, was lying dead downstairs.One of the watches was stolen by police already according to van Rensburg. Aimee asked if she could take one, the police said OK. Maybe it was a present from her to OP, sentimental value; maybe she was afraid that one would go "missing" too. Who knows? The police stealing a watch is a big deal. Aimee asking for one and being granted permission is not.
Viper, here's the "pale heart" that you've suggested I'm the only one to note. And, I'll throw in a pale liver as well, both from "blood loss".
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Reevas-final-breaths-20140310
It also supplies us with the "missing blood" - if there was bleeding from the liver this would be huge.
And so, to recap :
Evidence for blood loss : A pale heart and pale liver.
Evidence that there was some cardiac activity after Reeva's final breaths ;
1) Prof Saaymans testimony that she would not have necessarily died immediately after the last breaths.
2) The blood splatter expert identifying arterial spurts on the landing.
3) Basic human physiology. In spite of your assertion that a heart beating for minutes after breathing stops is "impossible" I think crasshopper explained succinctly that the body's reservoir of oxygen allows this to happen. So much so that the layman CPR guidelines have been amended to only use chest compressions in a community cardiac arrest. It's also the reason that people with asthma, near drownings, drug overdoses, some head injuries (etc etc) survive a period of respiratory arrest. Furthermore, when resuscitating a birth asphyxiated infant the entire algorithm is based on the heart rate, NOT the breathing which is frequently absent.
You're saying :
1) I don't believe that the heart beat for some minutes after she stopped breathing because not breathing = dying.
2) The characteristic, reproducible blood splatter identified by the blood splatter expert on the landing is not arterial blood and caused by some odd flinging around of the body. I can't remember exactly what your reasoning was, you lost me when you likened it to a "compression stocking".
3) The blood splatter expert got it wrong because he didn't read the autopsy repost, even though he attended the autopsy. And I don't like his findings so I'm going to say he's wrong.
Finally, you seem fixated on there being no blood loss because she died of head trauma and resistant to any suggestion that the head shot killed her, incapacitated her and stopped her breathing but that the significant blood loss certainly didn't help.
And the first
So where is all that blood--because it's not in the toilet room or bathroom.
And, where is all the arterial spatter everywhere from toilet room to front hall?
And, where is the high velocity gunshot spatter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFZA03eu9NM
At about 53:00
Dr. Stipp says at that he wasn't sure so he didn't include it in his statement but he did mention it to Capt. van Aardt at the time. While the woman was screaming, he could also hear a man’s voice at the same time that sounded softer and lower. He believes he heard two different voices at the same time.
And later (not on the link above) under cross examination Roux suggests that both voices could have been OP. Stipp then asks: “Am I to believe that he was screaming in two voices or two tones”?
Thank you for that. So Van Rensburg was the first on the scene. And he was the first to view the crime scene on the 1st floor. Was Botha with him at that time or not?
Just wondered
Have there ever been any clear photo's of the blood on the duvet in relation to the blood that has been mentioned on the carpet near it
Also I am a little confused about the jeans in relation to the Duvet . Was that fully resolved with regard to whether the jeans were in fact partly on top of the duvet( I thought yes ) . Was this the point where OP alleged they both must have been moved by the police or forensic's ?
TIA
I read your link. Nothing new. Certainly not death by exsanguination as you would like it to be.
I will stick with Professor Saymaan on this. He determined that Reeva died within 2-3 breaths of being shot in her head, and he determined the cause of her death was "gunshot wounds." Reeva did not bleed to death. :facepalm:
ETA: Why would you post "if there was bleeding from her liver...?" There is absolute nothing about that in your link! You are again speculating to suit what you want her death to be, and confusing people. You are trying to create injuries and internal bleeding that Dr. Saymaan would have found and noted if they had existed, but they did not, they are just your personal speculations. I really must read carefully anything that you post.
The bottom line is that we have two distinct groupings of witnessed sounds credited as gunshots. Not three or more, but two. We have from physical evidence both shots and strikes to the door that must be accounted for. We have testimony that at least one bat strike occurred post shooting, and the logical conclusion rightly drawn by the state witness from that is that all of them occurred post shooting, despite concessions about what is theoretically possible due to lack of evidence either way.
Battling pathologists happen in every trial. The evidence is by nature reconstructed and somewhat subjective and that is why both sides can virtually always find people to lend some support to their versions. If Reeva can't have been screaming after the first set of sounds as reason and the evidence suggests to some here then pathologist testimony is of interest but unlikely to be more definitive than that.
On cross exam he also says the voices were not at exactly the same time.
On cross exam he also says the voices were not at exactly the same time.
so more like arguing back and forth, not screaming together like a woman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L668jFUvGY
14:13:40
Van Rensburg stayed downstairs talking with Carice Stander until Botha arrived. Then they both followed the trail of blood up the stairs for the first time. So they viewed the first floor for the first time together.
I was looking at the pictures above under the pictures section.
I can't find the almost 200 photos entered into evidence. I would like to look at those.
Here's a new [to me] picture of the toilet. Scroll down, first picture.
I'm just amazed at how little blood is there and no arterial spurts all over the walls.
http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing
Oh, and no magazine rack.
Where does he say that?
Also, I don't think WhatsApp messages are automatically deleted from the phone after 7 days as was previously stated. What would be the point of that?....hidden in small print..
WhatsApps server until it can be delivered. If the message is undelivered for thirty (30) days, the undelivered message is deleted from our servers. Once a message has been delivered, it no longer resides on our servers.