Trial Discussion Thread #32

[nastasya]

I don't know that. That could have been bat on door at 3:17.

Sounds the same to Dr. & Mrs. Stipp.

MOO

Let's end this myth.

There is not one bit of evidence that's been presented that the bat hitting the door is what anybody heard.

That's the DT's story to explain what the Stipp's heard. Let's try to be accurate here.

 

[nastasya]

2:23 on tape, Witness Michelle Burgher

There were four gunshots. And, then I heard her petrified screaming some time during the gunshots. And, just after the gunshots was the last that I heard the same woman's voice, the same woman's voice that woke me that evening.

Oscar Neighbour Heard 'Blood-Curdling Screams' - YouTube


I am 99 percent certain Mrs. Burgher did not hear Reeva scream during the gunshots, and 100 percent certain she didn't hear Reeva scream after the gunshots.

Therefore, she was hearing Oscar's screams, and the bat strikes. She slept through the gunshots.

MOO

Why are you posting edited videos with voice overs?

That's not Burger's voice. Maybe go back and listen to the original testimony and get back to us.

 

[patCee]

3)The advantage to him could also be to explain the rope/s for tournique found downstairs. If she was already dead upstairs what is the point of making tournique etc?

4)To seem in a dramatic rescue mode saying she died in my arms.

5) To explain why he contaminated the crime scene ; she was alive and he would take her to the hospital.

Good call. Your mind is working faster than mine.:smile:

 

[nastasya]

First, it was imperative that police investigate the entire house and grounds.

Second, I have not heard any testimony that they did. Maybe someone else heard this testimony, but they have not yet directed me to it.

Third, police have testified in court to everything they did in that house, and, like I said, I didn't hear any testimony that they searched the entire house.

Fourth, if they didn't search the entire house, why didn't they?

This would not just be sloppy police work, it would be over the top.

MOO

Fifth, speculating and drawing conclusions based on what you haven't heard or don't know has no relevance to what really happened.

 

[nastasya]

We don't know that bullets are exactly lining up with wounds. if they are estimating [and State and Prosecution disagree so far on how and where she was standing and falling], Oscar could estimate, too.

MOO

Her brain and broken hairs were splattered on the back of the toilet seat.

It's not that complicated <modsnip>

 

[crasshopper]

Well you are snipping.
You have to either use the whole post or at least state that you have snipped.

I forgot to use "..." but when I do that
I thought the "..." indicted I was snipping.
I just do it to save space.

How do you otherwise indicate you're snipping?

 

[soozieqtips]

I thought the "..." indicted I was snipping.
I just do it to save space.

How do you otherwise indicate you're snipping?

Putting ~snipped~ is the easiest way. That's how I do it anyway.

 

[shane13]

I thought the "..." indicted I was snipping.
I just do it to save space.

How do you otherwise indicate you're snipping?

As mod said, just kindly say so in that antiquated language. English.
"Snipped by me"
Or respectfully snipped.

Me personally, I almost never snip, because crucial things may be in the snipped part.

 

[BritsKate]

If he is making everything else up, why would he not make that up too? Unless he is not making everything else up of course.

You don't have to take my word for it, of course, but in my experience (and that includes having been married to someone dx'd with personality disorders and following true crime for almost 3 decades) liars often use the truth as a basis to build lies around. You'll often see people refer to 'seeds of truth' - these are things that did really happen that a liar includes because the liar thinks it makes their account appear more plausible. For the most part, it does. It also gives the liar a 'reference point' to try to remember to incorporate certain falsehoods. For this reason, it is difficult for liars to remain consistent when relating their story out of sequence. It's the very reason Nel didn't walk OP through the events from A to B, he kept jumping around to keep OP off kilter and force him to recall from a point that hadn't been rehearsed. Liars also very often lie about the most inane, benign events (like what they had for breakfast, how much their house was, what kind of car they drive) because by human nature we believe people wouldn't bother lying about things that don't matter...then they can lie about big things with impunity because they have a track record of 'honesty' (only they don't, you just haven't caught out their small lies). You're less likely to question a bigger lie as a result.

This is all MOO and not necessarily specific to this case, it comes up again and again due to the nature of this forum.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[BritsKate]

I thought the "..." indicted I was snipping.

I just do it to save space.



How do you otherwise indicate you're snipping?

SBM or RSBM for short work just fine too. (Snipped by me, respectfully snipped by me). I've been here more than 4 years and often have to edit my posts because I so often forget myself!

To that end, according to some, a reason for snipping is supposed to be supplied but I never have (most often the reason is to save space) so maybe a mod could clarify on that. As I said, its something I've never specified.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[soozieqtips]

SBM or RSBM for short work just fine too. (Snipped by me, respectfully snipped by me). I've been here more than 4 years and often have to edit my posts because I so often forget myself!

To that end, according to some, a reason for snipping is supposed to be supplied but I never have (most often the reason is to save space) so maybe a mod could clarify on that. As I said, its something I've never specified.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Sometimes I snip a long post if I just want to reference a small part of it, but I've never given a reason as I didn't think we had to. I'm sure the mods would tell us if we had to.

 

[weeeva]

How far can a chicken run after you've chopped its head off ?

Quite a long way actually, as we all know, because the nerve impulses to the legs, unlike OP's handgun, are fully automatic. They tend to go one happening until a counter-order comes from the brain (not possible without head) or until the body becomes physically unable to continue because muscles are not being reoxygenated, etc.

In the same way, screaming in humans cannot usually be initiated after interruption of the brain-nerve-muscle pathway but might conceivably be continued for a short time.

Then again you have an apparent example of post-mortem scream initiation in the case of the unearthly blood-freezing scream of Captain Nolan when he was shot and instantaneously killed right at the start of the Charge of the Light Brigade (1854). Its quality was such that men who had heard never forgot it for the rest of their lives - it was entirely involuntary and a matter of nerves continuing to function.

Witness credibility cannot be undermined by our own limited powers of imagination.

Fair enough. I don't know the probabilities.
I think all our imaginations are running riot on here.

 

[crasshopper]

Thank you all for the "snipping" information!

Now can someone tell me what <modsnip> means? Thank you.

 

[nastasya]

Yes but that is a different scenario from what I am imaging. If he had been chasing Reeva with the gun I can understand the continuous screams, but not the screams intermingled with the shots because if she knew he had a gun I doubt she would be standing so close to the door, it would make more sense that she be cowering in a corner to avoid any shots. To me it makes more sense that Reeva was standing close to the door because she was listening to what was going on after hearing OP react as if there was someone in the house.
Sorry if I missing something here, it is all very confusing.

Here are screen shots from the shining and some other movie to help you visualize what happened.

First, notice how high the axe strikes the door. The bat strikes to the OP door were much lower, just above the door handle. OP was on his stumps when he hit the door.

Next notice where a terrified woman might be while the door is being bashed down.

Now think about what happened when OP stopped bashing the bathroom and went to get the gun. Reeva had no idea what was going on. She might have stood near the door to peak out, maybe to listen, maybe to open it and try to run, maybe to hold the handle in case she thought OP was going to get another key.

Finally, notice how improbable OP's story is about bending over the opening in the door to pick up the key on the floor.

Wow... just realized something.... Reeva never locked the door.

She was able to hold it closed with OP pulling on it because he was on his stumps and had no leverage.

He had to say it was locked to explain why the door was bashed in. Otherwise there's no explanation for the broken door.

Maybe that's what happened when he went back upstairs. He panicked and knew he had to explain the broken doors, and all he could think of was putting the keys in the door. He probably just screwed up and put them on the wrong side of the door. The first thing he had to do was explain why the door was broken. He couldn't say it was because he was beating on it.

 

[nastasya]

If the bedroom door was broken down, why has it never been brought in as evidence?

The broken bedroom door was most definitely brought into evidence.

OP testified he broke through it on his way back upstairs even though the one side was already open.

Still believe him?

 

[patCee]

Here are screen shots from the shining and some other movie to help you visualize what happened.

First, notice how high the axe strikes the door. The bat strikes to the OP door were much lower, just above the door handle. OP was on his stumps when he hit the door.

Next notice where a terrified woman might be while the door is being bashed down.

Now think about what happened when OP stopped bashing the bathroom and went to get the gun. Reeva had no idea what was going on. She might have stood near the door to peak out, maybe to listen, maybe to open it and try to run, maybe to hold the handle in case she thought OP was going to get another key.

Finally, notice how improbable OP's story is about bending over the opening in the door to pick up the key on the floor.

Wow... just realized something.... Reeva never locked the door.

She was able to hold it closed with OP pulling on it because he was on his stumps and had no leverage.

He had to say it was locked to explain why the door was bashed in. Otherwise there's no explanation for the broken door.

Maybe that's what happened when he went back upstairs. He panicked and knew he had to explain the broken doors, and all he could think of was putting the keys in the door. He probably just screwed up and put them on the wrong side of the door. The first thing he had to do was explain why the door was broken. He couldn't say it was because he was beating on it.

Just WOW!!! re your revelation about the door not being locked. Now that's a first, but highly relevant. That'll keep us going for the next week.

Pictures of the shining really bring it home how terrifying it must have been for RS that night. Also show graphically how OP was a madman.

 

[lithgow1]

I don't know how to do this 'snipping' thing so will just say Nastasya that I'd never thought before that maybe the door never was locked. Good thinking. Again, IIRC, there is only Pistorius's word that it was locked.

What do you mean though by putting the keys 'on the wrong side'? They were on the inside weren't they, which would seem the logical place for him to put them I'd of thought.

 

[jilly]

OP is making it all up (or the vast majority of it with tiny bits of truth sprinkled in) and it makes no sense that he didn't think of those things when making up his version. He had a while now to decide what to say was his version. The problem is, his version makes no sense. If OP was telling the truth, that he heard a noise, and Reeva was awake then she too would have heard the noise. However, since neither were asleep, they were arguing and there was no noise from an intruder OP is having to try and make a version up that sounds convincing. Unfortunately for OP he can't keep his version straight, changing it three times now, and it is not convincing.

MOO

I honestly don't know how the Judge can accept any of Oscar's testimony, Bail Affidavit and Plea affidavit when there are so many inconsistencies.

 

[fox1lady]

"Boyfriend" jeans are women's jeans designed to look like your wearing your boyfriend's jeans. Who knew, huh?! My response was a little tongue in cheek though. I do agree that Nel wouldn't let it slide were they Oscar's. Could be a card he's holding close to the vest for now or not.

Certainly the jeans outside were Reeva's.

Reeva's mother thought the jeans found in the bedroom looked large for Reeva...well maybe this is the unknown thong underwear in the dryer.

Highly, highly unlikely but if the jeans aren't Reeva's and both DT and PT stipulated that they're women's jeans maybe the jeans were the cause of the fight and not coffee with her ex?

Random musings...

Ooooh I think you might be on to something here! These jeans it seems are very significant (if only they could talk).

Could whoever left them there have done so deliberately?

At what point would Reeva have found them though?

Were they in the dryer?

And what do we know of the jeans outside...

it's all in the denims I tell you - the clues are there!!!

 

[nastasya]

As someone with nil reliable medical knowledge I can understand the logic of what you are saying. So if OP wants to say she was alive when carried downstairs, I'm trying to understand the advantage to him. Unless it's

1) That he wanted to show he was trying to reach medical care for her.

2) The blood on the stairs, sofa and in the bedroom, particularly the headboard, would need to have another more sinister explanation.

He was in the middle of planning on covering up the crime and getting rid of her body when Stipp caught him. He hadn't called an ambulance or police.

He had to come up with the story he was taking her to the hospital. Notice how he didn't remember what he said when he called Netcare. He probably called, then changed his mind, maybe trying to cover both bases. Same with the call to Baba. He called just to have it on record in case he needed it, but didn't ask for help.