Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[Cherwell]

If OP needed help picking up RS, why didnt he fetch Frank, who was already on the property?

That is such a good question.

 

[james83]

That is such a good question.

Does anyone else get a strong feeling that Frank enquired as to what was going on and was told "Everything is fine".

 

[katydid23]

Frank is referred to by OP as his "houseboy" and apparently sometimes his "servant". It seems he is a jack of all trades.

I wonder why he didnt ring his servant, who was already on the property, and ask him to help move reeva to the car. That would have taken much less time then ringing a neighbor, who he 'barely knew', who had to drive over.

 

[lithgow1]

Sky news reporting of today's witness evidence is clearly cut and twisted in favour of OP, it is bloody well annoying. Just as well 'My Lady' hears it all first hand.

You ought to listen to Robyn Curnow and especially legal analyst Kelly Phelps on CNN. The latter in particular is a shocker - really bad in terms of not being balanced at all. She claims that Dixon was an excellent witness and Curnow described Nel's questioning of Pistorius as a 'character assassination'. Shockingly bad really.

 

[katydid23]

Here's the reference (scroll to find) to the kicking the of the dog, he was home:

'..a man he saw lurking in his garden kicked his dog'

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/04/07/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-murder-trial-day-17

Frankly, I'm amazed OP didn't at least fire a shot into the air when he saw that. If I was daft enough to buy myself a gun and saw some strange man on my property kicking my dog, I think I would definitely fire a warning shot....although I'd be so outraged I'd probably just yell and throw whatever I had to hand - which would be my ipad.

That makes it even stranger that his dogs would not NOW be barking at strangers. IF one of them was kicked by a stranger lurking in the bushes, wouldn't they learn to bark at any future lurkers? But apparently they are not the type to bark. Odd.

 

[james83]

So Carice Stander was awoken by her dogs barking, she personally didn't hear either set's of sound's nor any scream's, this suggest's she was awoken by her dog's barking at the 2nd set of sound's, so would her dog's have slept through gunshots but been woken up by a cricket bat hitting a door like they must have if Oscar's version is true?.

 

[Cher352]

I read an article yesterday where Roux said he estimated finishing the defense case around the middle of May. The only reason that makes sense to me for his running out of witnesses today is that there are very few witnesses in any way helpful to OP, and he's trying to stretch out the process as long as possible to conceal the fact that, re OP's defense, there's no "there" there.

I think Roux didn't have any other witnesses lined up for today as he probably thought the cross on both the Standers would much longer.

I was actually surprised myself but I think the prosecution just wanted them off the stand ASAP. They were way too sympathetic and supporting of OP's version. I think Nel already knew before he even started that he was not going to rattle them. That is why the Standers were never called as prosecution witnesses.

 

[JusticeFever]

I think most people would like to know the answer to this question .He could have asked him when he went downstairs to unlock the door.

Exactly!! Good point!

 

[Cherwell]

So Carice Stander was awoken by her dogs barking, she personally didn't hear either set's of sound's nor any scream's, this suggest's she was awoken by her dog's barking at the 2nd set of sound's, so would her dog's have slept through gunshots but been woken up by a cricket bat hitting a door like they must have if Oscar's version is true?.

My dogs would sleep through World War III, but just let a cat slink along the bottom of the garden ..... :facepalm:

 

[Really?]

<Respectfully snipped and bolded by me>

Pardon if this has been asked and answered, I'm late catching up this morning.

Is it common in SA, when it's 'rather hot', to not run one's air conditioner? Or, is it common to run the a/c and then let all the cool air fly out your sliding door? Or are these estates so shoddily built that no one's a/c works and everyone's sliders were open that night?

Interesting that she had 'issues' regarding the need to fiddle with her sliding doors at just the same time OP happened to run (on his stumps?) to his to yell help help help! Very ... fortuitous. Ahem.

also about all these open windows and balcony door........what about the bugs???...sheeesh...that would freak me out. bugs getting in..yikes

 

[Cher352]

Does anyone know whereabouts this Frank the caretaker's house is in OP's grounds? The grounds of OP's house isn't particularly big and I can't see any outbuildings in the overhead shots, unless I've missed something somewhere .. I also can't see any kind of fountain in the grounds, either ..

Concerning Frank, I found it odd that the SA did not raise questions about Frank when OP was on the stand or call Frank to the stand Perhaps the SA already knows the story, whatever it is, on Frank for that night and decided it does not help their case.

 

[jay-jay]

Going back to Stander's testimony earlier this morning .. how come he was saying that he called for an ambulance when Dr Stipp had already testified saying that when he arrived and saw Stander at the house, he asked him whether an ambulance had been called and Stander said 'no'? Dr Stipp then testified that he had to call for an ambulance himself (and initially called the wrong number because he called the hospital directly, instead of calling the emergency number). Dr Stipp's testimony with regard to calling for an ambulance sounds quite solid to me (and I'm sure can be verified by the hospital .. I very much doubt that in his position as a medical professional, he is going to get that wrong) .. so why is Stander now saying that he called the emergency services when Stipp said that he originally said 'no' he hadn't, at the actual scene of the incident?

 

[Emz73]

"A Malawian housekeeper was staying at Oscar Pistorius's house on the night Reeva Steenkamp was killed but &#8220;heard nothing&#8221; and will not be called by either the State or the defence team to give evidence in the athlete's murder trial, it has emerged.


Frank Chiziweni is understood to have slept in the domestic quarters next to Pistorius's kitchen on the ground floor of his home on a security estate outside Pretoria".

" Mr Chiziweni, the closest person by far to the events of St Valentine's Day last year after Pistorius and Steenkamp themselves, is understood to have told police he slept through the entire incident"

"A policeman who arrived at the scene an hour after the shooting confirmed Mr Chiziweni had been sleeping in a room off the kitchen and was awake when they arrived".


Taken from Daily Telegraph tonight.

 

[katydid23]

"A Malawian housekeeper was staying at Oscar Pistorius's house on the night Reeva Steenkamp was killed but “heard nothing” and will not be called by either the State or the defence team to give evidence in the athlete's murder trial, it has emerged.


Frank Chiziweni is understood to have slept in the domestic quarters next to Pistorius's kitchen on the ground floor of his home on a security estate outside Pretoria".


Taken from Daily Telegraph tonight.

This just blows my mind. Frank, his personal assistant was right downstairs, while OP called someone he 'barely knew', and asked that person to drive over, and help him life Reeva into the car?

I wonder why Nel has not asked about this. It is unreal to me. :moo:

 

[patCee]

Going back to Stander's testimony earlier this morning .. how come he was saying that he called for an ambulance when Dr Stipp had already testified saying that when he arrived and saw Stander at the house, he asked him whether an ambulance had been called and Stander said 'no'? Dr Stipp then testified that he had to call for an ambulance himself (and initially called the wrong number because he called the hospital directly, instead of calling the emergency number). Dr Stipp's testimony with regard to calling for an ambulance sounds quite solid to me (and I'm sure can be verified by the hospital .. I very much doubt that in his position as a medical professional, he is going to get that wrong) .. so why is Stander now saying that he called the emergency services when Stipp said that he originally said 'no' he hadn't, at the actual scene of the incident?

Dr Stipp testified that when Stander told him the ambulance hadn't been called, he called the hospital himself. He was told to call another number for the ambulance. He told Stander the number and asked him to phone. This morning Stander made it sound as though it was his own initiative rather than Stipps. Stander phoned and then Stipp (as per his own testimony) spoke to them describing RS injuries.

This morning we heard more information when Carise testified that she too spoke to the ambulance service.

 

[DebinGA]

This just blows my mind. Frank, his personal assistant was right downstairs, while OP called someone he 'barely knew', and asked that person to drive over, and help him life Reeva into the car?

I wonder why Nel has not asked about this. It is unreal to me. :moo:

Me too. Just another thing different in SA from USA. Nel must have a list of boxes that must be checked to win conviction/s, and he's systematically checking off the wheat and ignoring the chaff. Or maybe all these gems we think Nel overlooked will suddenly appear to great effect in his closing.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Going back to Stander's testimony earlier this morning .. how come he was saying that he called for an ambulance when Dr Stipp had already testified saying that when he arrived and saw Stander at the house, he asked him whether an ambulance had been called and Stander said 'no'? Dr Stipp then testified that he had to call for an ambulance himself (and initially called the wrong number because he called the hospital directly, instead of calling the emergency number). Dr Stipp's testimony with regard to calling for an ambulance sounds quite solid to me (and I'm sure can be verified by the hospital .. I very much doubt that in his position as a medical professional, he is going to get that wrong) .. so why is Stander now saying that he called the emergency services when Stipp said that he originally said 'no' he hadn't, at the actual scene of the incident?

I agree.
I also think it is strange that he played down his relationship with OP.
He must be fairly close for OP to phone him for help rather than seek help from someone in his employment that was actually on site .

 

[patCee]

Stander also said Dr Stipp told him that he had heard 4 shots, silence, screams then another 4 shots.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 5 May 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

at 16.41

I'm sure Stipp testified he heard 3 shots, screams and then 3 more shots.

 

[james83]

So Dr Stipp heard both set's of sound's then a man shout for help 3 times
Logic tell's us Carice Stander was awoken after the 2nd set of sounds, she also then heard a man shout for help 3 times.
Oscar's bail affidavit said he shouted for help before breaking the toilet door down.
This show's that no one heard the breaking of the toilet door, it back's up the theory that the door was damaged earlier(first set of sounds), and simply pried open etc after gunshot's.

 

[DebinGA]

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