Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[aoibhinn]

It was me that used the word bolster - i said she had made up an embellishment to reinforce OP's story, but at that point (according to her) she could not possibly know that a woman was involved because she claims to have heard nothing but a man shouting help three times. So what woman was she referring to?

As you say though, another explanation is that she knew very well there was a woman involved and she heard far more than she is admitting to. That leaves a really bad taste in the mouth.

Cheers Lyra, :seeya: it was you. I was opening the posts in new windows for quoting at the end of the thread, but I lost yours. She did support OP's halp! halp! halp! :facepalm: but it seems she did hear a woman. I wonder why Nel didn't pull her up on that?

 

[shane13]

Makes you wonder why in all this supposed darkness that they didn't put all the lights on. There was a young woman critically wounded, so it would be essential to see clearly what the hell they were all doing.

Yes, W, Carice is well versed in the Oscar-Speak about the Oscar-Dark.
Just as dark or light as you need it to be at the moment for your allibi.

 

[whiterum]

:loveyou:

Good evening, fellow sleuthers and thank you for the transcriptions. Barging in once again .... I wasn't able to watch today (never-ending exams ) but I've read through the whole thread. Perhaps I need to watch but it appears to me that there was something very telling in CS's testimony today.





Another poster mentioned that this appeared to bolster OP's version of events.

However, it seems to me that CS, in delivering her recall of events, actually heard a woman screaming before the man called for help. While she was still in bed. Why else would she wonder about a woman at that point in time?

Or am I not interpreting that incorrectly?

Exactly after hearing the man shout help three times she added something to the effect of 'there must be terrible trouble because then where is the lady'. Weird to associate a man shouting help with a scream/ shout from a lady. Was she trying to convey in a roundabout way that she heard no lady screaming something that at the time she heard the man shout would be an uncalled for remark.

 

[44ALLAN]

Okay I want you guys here to pretend you are Roux.

How would you answer the following question

OP. Roux Im really really concerned and I need a straight answer. Will you still get me an acquittal like you said ?

ROUX. [ Insert answer here]

Yes.............those dogs are *advertiser censored* and I'll get you a full refund.

 

[jilly]

So. We basically know what the Judge needs to find in order to rule on murder.

Any idea why the assessor keeps asking about the remote alarm and whether or not Reeva had access? This is the second time (Oscar and Mrs S) that the question has been asked.

 

[PPKik]

Well said! 200m!

True, but most people believe every word of Michelle Burger, although I found her testimony not particularly credible and quite biased, and later, confusing and hostile during cross.

Weren't she and her husband, also confusing or confused, 177 meters away? That's still far.

 

[Lyra500]

Cheers Lyra, :seeya: it was you. I was opening the posts in new windows for quoting at the end of the thread, but I lost yours. She did support OP's halp! halp! halp! :facepalm: but it seems she did hear a woman. I wonder why Nel didn't pull her up on that?

Hi there.

I think that may be an unfortunate result of the way trials are run in SA - the testimony would be the first time Nel had heard any of the defence case. Hence him asking for a recess because he was trying to think on his feet and getting bombarded with suggestions from his team. It must make it really easy to miss things.

That definitely warranted further questioning though. She said she only heard a man, but then let slip something which suggests she knew a woman was involved, indicating that she must have heard a woman too. If so, why did she leave that out of her statement at the time?

Does anyone know if it is possible for the prosecution to recall witnesses to clarify points?

PS. I hope your exams go well. :seeya:

 

[shane13]

In Oscar-World things must be Oscar-Dark <--new accredited classes thanks to shane13......lol

Thanks, Really?

And just for you another important aspect.

People have been making a thing out of Oscar's dogs, and that all other dogs in the vicinity may have been barking, except Oscar's dogs.

But Oscar has trained his dogs in a special way.
To be duplicitous and not bark when shooting occurs, but to bark inappropriately at other times as an allibi.

Oscar-Bark. (Don't ya know. [j/k]) ANd a vartiation of the Oscar-Speak for our 4-legged friends.

 

[JuneBug67]

So. We basically know what the Judge needs to find in order to rule on murder.

Any idea why the assessor keeps asking about the remote alarm and whether or not Reeva had access? This is the second time (Oscar and Mrs S) that the question has been asked.

My instinct the first time was that she was trying to figure out if there might be some way Reeva could have left the room to eat at some point. That could be reinforced by the fact that she was asking about beeps today. Perhaps wondering if Oscar would have awoken if the alarm make noise? But total speculation on my part, and it's a known trap to try and figure out what jury or jurist questions mean. So take that with a huge grain of salt.

 

[sicknote]

If OP needed help picking up RS, why didnt he fetch Frank, who was already on the property?

Maybe he was afraid of the dark.

 

[aoibhinn]

True, but most people believe every word of Michelle Burger, although I found her testimony not particularly credible and quite biased, and later, confusing and hostile during cross.

Weren't she and her husband, also confusing or confused, 177 meters away? That's still far.

BBM for relevance.

200m is only 0.12miles. It's not very far at all.

 

[steveml]

Thanks, Really?

And just for you another important aspect.

People have been making a thing out of Oscar's dogs, and that all other dogs in the vicinity may have been barking, except Oscar's dogs.

But Oscar has trained his dogs in a special way.
To be duplicitous and not bark when shooting occurs, but to bark inappropriately at other times as an allibi.

Oscar-Bark. (Don't ya know. [j/k]) ANd a vartiation of the Oscar-Speak for our 4-legged friends.

All I can see is continual references to this oscar-...

It's just annoying now. The point's been hammered to death.

 

[aoibhinn]

Hi there.

I think that may be an unfortunate result of the way trials are run in SA - the testimony would be the first time Nel had heard any of the defence case. Hence him asking for a recess because he was trying to think on his feet and getting bombarded with suggestions from his team. It must make it really easy to miss things.

That definitely warranted further questioning though. She said she only heard a man, but then let slip something which suggests she knew a woman was involved, indicating that she must have heard a woman too. If so, why did she leave that out of her statement at the time?

Does anyone know if it is possible for the prosecution to recall witnesses to clarify points?

PS. I hope your exams go well. :seeya:

From reviewing the transcripts here today, it certainly seems like he was bombarded. I hope he picked up on that and can pursue it.

Thank you for the good wishes and to Giles, too. First year psychology nearly done and dusted!

 

[44ALLAN]

BBM:
CM knows that hence the quotations marks.....it just goes to show what a joke OP's "version" is.

I knew that :facepalm:

 

[shane13]

From reviewing the transcripts here today, it certainly seems like he was bombarded. I hope he picked up on that and can pursue it.

Thank you for the good wishes and to Giles, too. First year psychology nearly done and dusted!

Your major?

 

[44ALLAN]

Well said! 200m!

She heard every dog on the estate barking so why not?

 

[DebinGA]

Johan Stander was estate manager, so he and OP likely shared the common goal to keep the media away at all costs and get Reeva to the hospital as quickly and quietly as possible. Dr. Stipp's arrival spoiled their plan. And only then was an ambulance called at Dr. Stipp's insistence.
I don't view Stander as an honorable man. ...:cow:

 

[patCee]

Surely it bolsters a murder conviction rather than CH?

Isn't CH causing death by a reckless or negligent act?

Shooting someone four times because you think they are an intruder is surely a deliberate act and therefore murder.

I'm sure you're right, and it's been discussed with all possibilities on here. My main point was it tightens up the OP cross where he seemed to be changing his plea to something else, e.g. involuntary.

This defence (that you mistakenly thought you were entitled to act in private-defence) is known as “putative private-defence”. Until his testimony, this was Pistorius’s defence. I say “until his testimony”, because during his testimony, he seems to be claiming that he fired at the toilet door by accident. This is vastly different – a claim of “accident” amounts in law to a claim of involuntariness.

http://criminallawza.net/2014/04/13/pistoriuss-new-defence/

There are various defence positions OP could plead. What the court decides is another matter and I don't think it is as clear as you may hope. The position is discussed more fully in the link.

 

[shane13]

RE Frank:

Is it certain that he was sleepng downstairs that night, as I see upthread?
Some papers may have said that a year ago.

But he also is said to have had that separate small dwelling on OP's property.
I believe he is also an older gent.

 

[aoibhinn]

Your major?

It's my first year of university, honours degree. I'm in Ireland. I'm not quite sure what a major is, though I've heard the term in relation to the US education system.