Trial Discussion Thread #33 - 14.05.05 Day 26

[ColonelMustard]

During the testimony, IIRC, there was some contention over which one was said. The security guard testified that OP said " Everything is fine."

In cross, Roux said are you certain he did not say "I am fine?"


And I believe that OP might have conceded that he MIGHT have said I am fine, but swears he does not remember what he said during that call.


Either way, that is a damning statement to make, if your gf is dying on the toilet floor.

"In cross, Roux said are you certain he did not say "I am fine?"

OBJECTION, M'Lady! Leading the witness.

"

 

[Karmady]

Because the DT is claiming that Botha is misremembering, and that OP actually said " EVERYTHING is fine."

wait, what? The DEFENSE is saying Oscar said EVERYTHING is fine?!?!?!

 

[DebinGA]

ok, but in my defense, I think that's a little different than what you posted originally -- that he stalled for time to think v. to make absolutely sure she died before help arrived.

I consider not immediately calling an ambulance himself or asking security immediately to call one was stalling for enough time to be sure Reeva was dead when people inevitably arrived. There was no time spent feeling around in the dark for Reeva. Or running back and forth calling her name imo. No, that time was spent by OP in full cover-up mode, muddying the scene, thinking of his next moves as her blood pooled until security pulled up outside and the Standers arrived. He then picked her up and played the grieving, "broken" man. JOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

So Dr Stipp heard both set's of sound's then a man shout for help 3 times
Logic tell's us Carice Stander was awoken after the 2nd set of sounds, she also then heard a man shout for help 3 times.
Oscar's bail affidavit said he shouted for help before breaking the toilet door down.
This show's that no one heard the breaking of the toilet door, it back's up the theory that the door was damaged earlier(first set of sounds), and simply pried open etc after gunshot's.

Just a further comment re the door. OP never head the toilet door being locked. After the shooting he shoulder-charged the door and then went and got the cricket bat. We know the door was locked but he did too and that's why he never attempted to turn the handle.

 

[Karmady]

"In cross, Roux said are you certain he did not say "I am fine?"

OBJECTION, M'Lady! Leading the witness.

"

Is that your objection? If not, things must be very different under SA law. You're allowed to lead on cross in the US.

From the link:

While each state has its own rules of evidence, many states model their rules on the Federal Rules of Evidence, which themselves relate closely to the common-law mode of examination. Rule 611(c) of the Federal Rules of Evidence provides that:
Leading questions should not be used on the direct examination of a witness except as may be necessary to develop the witness' testimony. Ordinarily leading questions should be permitted on cross-examination. When a party calls a hostile witness, an adverse party, or a witness identified with an adverse party, interrogation may be by leading questions.

Leading question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[katydid23]

Everything is fine is a damaging statement, for sure. I'm fine isn't necessarily, imo. I'm thinking of when you call for help frantically and the person on the other end of the line wants to know who all is injured. Like "are YOU injured, too?" "No, I'M fine"

But that's not what was being asked. Security was outside his door, asking if he needed assistance. He sent them away, by saying 'things, everything, OR he himself was FINE. :doh:

The point is, his gf was on the floor dying, and he was SUPPOSEDLY wanting to take her to the hospital. And he had security and a car right outside his door, asking if he needed any help. Why not say YES, I NEED HELP!

But instead, he says, "I am Fine. " :thud:

 

[PPKik]

Dr Stipp called emergency care while Stander was on the phone at (3:28am with Netcare). That explains the two contradictory statements @17:35 (I think!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS2ca9adoe0

 

[katydid23]

It is more a matter of whether you believe Baba's words or Baba's words. It was he who first characterized OP as having said 'he was okay'. OP never claimed anything about the phone call other than the fact that he didn't remember it. I don't think he is maliciously lying but mixing up the order of the calls when you've really got a pretty short story to tell was a hell of a thing. I'm just not sure about his reliability on the point. Regardless, all either statement really adds up to is "I don't need you here". Which was true.

BBM

Why wouldn't he need help from security? His gf was bleeding out on the bathroom floor, ffs. Didn't he require IMMEDIATE help in getting her to a car and to a hospital? Why send that immediate help away? They could have loaded
her into the vehicle and rushed her to medical aid. Instead he piddled around for much longer, waiting for someone he 'barely knew' to drive over and watch him carry the dead body down the stairs.

 

[Karmady]

But that's not what was being asked. Security was outside his door, asking if he needed assistance. He sent them away, by saying 'things, everything, OR he himself was FINE. :doh:

The point is, his gf was on the floor dying, and he was SUPPOSEDLY wanting to take her to the hospital. And he had security and a car right outside his door, asking if he needed any help. Why not say YES, I NEED HELP!

But instead, he says, "I am Fine. " :thud:

Don't face palm at me lady lol

I haven't been able to watch the trial. I read references to a phone call to security and thought this was supposedly said during the phone call. Y'all would just be arguing with each other anyway if you didn't have to answer my stupid questions

eta: and now the post right below me is saying it was a call to. So now I'm thinking you mean "right outside his door" figuratively. (I'll insert a face palm for you myself right here)

 

[DebinGA]

Baba said after the first "I am fine" call that OP called him back and just cried and hung up. I bet that's what he did with Netcare, just cried and hung up, providing no useful info but strategically leaving proof that he'd called.

 

[Greater Than]

During the testimony, IIRC, there was some contention over which one was said. The security guard testified that OP said " Everything is fine."

In cross, Roux said are you certain he did not say "I am fine?"


And I believe that OP might have conceded that he MIGHT have said I am fine, but swears he does not remember what he said during that call.


Either way, that is a damning statement to make, if your gf is dying on the toilet floor.

Agreed. Either statement sends him up a creek without a paddle.

"Everything is fine." -- Problematic because there's a dead woman in his house, so everything is far from fine.

"I'm fine." -- Problematic because he just shot his girlfriend to death. Who is "fine" after killing their girlfriend?

Both are equally disturbing.

 

[Val1]

Stander quoted OP saying, "I shot Reeva. I thought she was an intruder." So that at least clarifies his intention at the time imo. It was no accident as he tried to quasi-claim.

To carry this further, imo, OP considered RS as the intruder... as evidenced by his "get the *advertiser censored** out of my house, get the F*!!! out of my house!". Iow's, he not only knew it was her in the toilet room, but he then shot her on purpose because she had become the intruder and in his mind justified his actions. Of course in hindsight, he realized what a *advertiser censored** up he'd committed, ergo his "terror" and praying for God to turn back time for him.

 

[katydid23]

wait, what? The DEFENSE is saying Oscar said EVERYTHING is fine?!?!?!

WHOOPS...no, I just fixed that...Whose on first? ..lol

 

[PPKik]

But that's not what was being asked. Security was outside his door, asking if he needed assistance. He sent them away, by saying 'things, everything, OR he himself was FINE. :doh:

The point is, his gf was on the floor dying, and he was SUPPOSEDLY wanting to take her to the hospital. And he had security and a car right outside his door, asking if he needed any help. Why not say YES, I NEED HELP!

But instead, he says, "I am Fine. " :thud:

I thought this exchange was over the phone.

Are you certain security was outside and with a car at that point, whatever was said?

 

[Fuskier]

Within one hour of Reeva's violent death, Stander is giving Dr. Stipp's information to Oscar's defense attorney... not the police.

Any question about whose side he is on?

What a revelation! Exposed!

 

[katydid23]

Don't face palm at me lady lol

I haven't been able to watch the trial. I read references to a phone call to security and thought this was supposedly said during the phone call. Y'all would just be arguing with each other anyway if you didn't have to answer my stupid questions

eta: and now the post right below me is saying it was a call to. So now I'm thinking you mean "right outside his door" figuratively. (I'll insert a face palm for you myself right here)

You are right, we need to answer these questions of yours. It's like when my husband comes in when I am watching a tv show and starts asking me who the characters are. LOL

Ok, it was a call TO. HOWEVER, the call failed or OP hung up without speaking. The call was a few seconds duration. Baba, who was right outside OP's home, called to see what was going on. And was told things were fine, no help needed.

 

[Greater Than]

Reeva was dead before "help came."

If you believe Carise and her story that Reeva was bleeding and alive until the paramedics pronounced her dead at 3:50, then I have oceanfront property in Colorado that you may be interested in purchasing.

OP shot her enough times, more than once, to make sure that her blood curdling screams stopped. That goes to premeditation BTW.

No viper, that just goes to intent, which makes this murder.

The premeditation is everything he did BEFORE the act itself. (Arming himself, approaching the perceived danger, passing an escape route on the way to the room of perceived danger, etc....all those things he did while reflecting on what he was about to do.)

 

[TorisMom003]

Does anyone remember exactly when Roux was questioning OP about the events after he took Reeva downstairs? I really don't want to have to listen to "this is my life, OP style" to find the part where he talks about the Standers.

 

[katydid23]

Don't face palm at me lady lol

I haven't been able to watch the trial. I read references to a phone call to security and thought this was supposedly said during the phone call. Y'all would just be arguing with each other anyway if you didn't have to answer my stupid questions

eta: and now the post right below me is saying it was a call to. So now I'm thinking you mean "right outside his door" figuratively. (I'll insert a face palm for you myself right here)

"Not everything was in order as Mr. Pistorius was telling me," Baba recalled saying to a fellow guard as they were outside the runner's villa in the pre-dawn hours of Valentine's Day last year.


OK, links:

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Late...guard-testify-at-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial

 

[Viper]

Until tomorrow then. I'm sure there are going to be more people that did not hear the full sequence of events. Or perhaps another expert? Mr. Nel and I would live that!!!