Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[sleuth-d-]

Yes, he probably does but unless he has got himself into trouble in the intervening time, he sure will get it. The problem is the severe overcrowding of SA jails.

bbm

would today's 'how do you sleep' event cover getting into further trouble?

 

[katydid23]

To answer that I'd have to know more about the relationship between Aimee and Reeva. I don't, so therefore I abstain from speculating either way. What I do know is that there hasn't been an issue brought before the court regarding this. That can be said without speculation. In any case, what were the SAPS doing regarding security?

I do however think it's unacceptable behaviour to steal from a crime scene. That again can be said without speculation.

I might be completely crazy, but IIRC, Aimee said once in an interview, that she had never, yet, met Reeva. Am I correct?

 

[lithgow1]

Methinks she has lost the plot.

So you're also familiar with her 'work'? I'd love to see her discussing the case with one of the many South African legal experts who see the trial's progress and current state somewhat differently.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

BBM

Coincidence or not, I think it takes a lot of guts to do what they did in court today.

It would be interesting to know how many women would be prepared to do that in a live court session, if they didn't really believe it to be true.

As it was so forcefully expressed on many occasions with regard to the PT witnesses...they have nothing to gain and why would they lie?

This, I have thought about a lot today. Can you imagine what the defense and some of the members here would have said had the prosecution female witnesses screamed as they heard that night. People would be having coronaries due to the prejudicial nature but of course here the witnesses are praised for their bravery lol! It's such a blatant double standard.

 

[Giles]

Missing the sound of one shot is not such a big thing in the scale of things ,witnesses in cases like this regularly misremember the exact number of shots but their testimony on the whole is still the most credible and I doubt very much the judge will discount it for that reason.
In any event whilst thinking about it maybe there were two sets of shots .I would like to know exactly how many bullets were left in the magazine .For all I know he could have shot out of the window to scare Reeva and had the casings removed with the phone that vanished or maybe he attempted to flush them down a toilet ,who knows really .
I will be listening very carefully to the closing arguments before making my mind up on this .

This will not be the state's argument. Nel has stated that only 4 shots were fired that night.

 

[Feynman]

partial quote:

Could be the way sound travels. Bedrooms and their balconies of both houses face the back of the houses and I thought the bathroom of OP's faced the front of the house, doesn't it?

No, OP's bathroom faces towards the back, his bedroom balcony faces 90 degrees to the right of that.

 

[sleuth-d-]

This, I have thought about a lot today. Can you imagine what the defense and some of the members here would have said had the prosecution female witnesses screamed as they heard that night. People would be having coronaries due to the prejudicial nature but of course here the witnesses are praised for their bravery lol! It's such a blatant double standard.

absolutely, and a woman witness, who has just given evidence to having heard a MAN crying, then 'demonstrates' the sound using HER voice. why? totally pointless.

and it happened twice.

 

[TorisMom003]

I listened to the part of Carice's testimony where she spoke of she and Aimee taking Reeva's purse from the house. During cross Nel asks her about leaving the police "guard" when upstairs. Carice says that yes, she went into the spare room to get a bag to put OP's clothes and such in. Now during the State's CIC, Van Rensburg testified that the spare room door was locked. So how did Carice get the key to that door? And how did she know that there would be a bag in that room to put OP's stuff in.

She also said that Aimee just walked back into the house, into the kitchen, grabbed Reeva's bag off the counter and walked back out. My guess is that the police on scene thought it was simply Aimee's bag and didn't say anything to her about it to stop her.

MOO

 

[Gbtaketwo]

This will not be the state's argument. Nel has stated that only 4 shots were fired that night.

Well as I said I will reserve judgement until I have heard the closing arguments and any further prosecution evidence that may come to light if Nel does indeed ask for it to be re opened (as is rumoured at the moment )
.There is a lot of piecing together to be done particularly as the states case has always had to be speculative due to the fact that the only other eye witness apart from OP is sadly deceased .

 

[liesbeth]

Apologies if this has been discussed. I'm still catching up.

Mr. Baba testified that Dr. Stipp and a neighbor called and both reported gunshots. Was Mr. Nhlengethwa the neighbor who reported the gunshots? If not there must be another neighbor who called security.

 

[Val1]

BBM

Not so. It seems clear from the Stipp's testimonies that they heard 6 shots. Therefore we know for certain that despite the balcony windows being open and at least one of them being awake the whole time, they didn't hear correctly that morning.

Yet Mr.Stander was quite adamant that Dr.Stipp had told him that he'd heard 4+4....

 

[Gbtaketwo]

absolutely, and a woman witness, who has just given evidence to having heard a MAN crying, then 'demonstrates' the sound using HER voice. why? totally pointless.

and it happened twice.

For both these female witnesses to do this today you would have to think they were guided by the defence team . If not it is a heck of a coincidence IMO

 

[Interested Bystander]

bbm

would today's 'how do you sleep' event cover getting into further trouble?

I doubt it even though it was unpleasant but something violent certainly would. I am guessing. If guilty he will be banned from carrying or using a gun but I wonder whether he can live without one.

 

[minor4th]

This is really strange. The screams apparently were "blood curdling" which I don't doubt at all. So what now? Do the pros and defense witnesses cancel each other out? Will Nel now need to bring in an expert to testify as to how sound travels?

Did you hear the two woman scream in court today? I would guess that sound could be interpreted as "blood curdling" - Mr and Mrs N both said it was high pitched also. It's reasonable to believe that screaming is what all the witnesses heard - they just applied different interpretations.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yet Mr.Stander was quite adamant that Dr.Stipp had told him that he'd heard 4+4....

Maybe Stander mistook few for four.

 

[TorisMom003]

Did you hear the two woman scream in court today? I would guess that sound could be interpreted as "blood curdling" - Mr and Mrs N both said it was high pitched also. It's reasonable to believe that screaming is what all the witnesses heard - they just applied different interpretations.

BBM

High pitched yes, but still sounded like a man and was not mistaken as a woman.

 

[liesbeth]

I was going by the times on the phone records from Security's landline and cell phone.

But you may be right about Dr Stipp - maybe I'm confusing him with Johnson. It was Johnson and Burger who heard the second bangshots after they got off the phone with security (and went back to bed - didn't call back after they heard those). Johnson's phone call was at 3:16 and lasted 58 seconds. I think that's how the 3:17 time was nailed down.

So mrs N heard one bangshot and then help help help and then called security at 3:16 and change (IIRC)

We do not have their phone records from Vodacom/MTN/etc. So the time on their cell phone could have been wrong. Like the Stipp's alarm clock (3-4 min fast) and Motha's camera.

3:16:15 Didn't get through. Then 3:16:36 (44 sec).

Baba said Stipp and a neighbor reported gunshots. I think it was Roux who then suggested that the neighbor was Nghlethwa.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Apologies if this has been discussed. I'm still catching up.

Mr. Baba testified that Dr. Stipp and a neighbor called and both reported gunshots. Was Mr. Nhlengethwa the neighbor who reported the gunshots? If not there must be another neighbor who called security.

yep i believe that was the... 03:16:13 [didn't get through] and 03:16:36 call from Mr. N

call was either 34 or 44 seconds [i couldn't make out the figure]

interesting that there doesn't appear to have been a call from stander to security or ambulance or police at that time

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Giggle. I do believe you are.

Diamond ring (nicest you can afford)
Party to celebrate
Announcement to friends/family
Answering endless questions about 'when's the big day then?'
Answering endless questions about houses/family plans etc
The beginning of THE plans for THE wedding (that will gradually increase to THE WEDDING as the day nears and there is all that stuff)

And....there's probably more but I got bored with the whole lot, threw up my hands and got married on the hop, managed to be late to my own wedding (but hubby was with me), then had to be gently evicted from the venue as we were both a little drunk, and everyone else had gone home......we had a lovely time though.

Not only that he hadn't even bought the poor girl a Valentine's Day gift...not a great start to the budding romance/engagement.

 

[Interested Bystander]

So you're also familiar with her 'work'? I'd love to see her discussing the case with one of the many South African legal experts who see the trial's progress and current state somewhat differently.

I am aware of her views and cannot fail to be astonished by them. Pitting her against the many erudite SA legal experts would be like throwing her to the lions IMO. :floorlaugh: