Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[ColonelMustard]

Funnily enough, much of the Stander's testimony was met with quite a bit of scorn here in SA.

The various tweets doing the rounds (and many were shown on the Oscar Channel 199 on our DSTV) were less than complimentary.

Most people found their testimony 'basically honest' yet supremely blown up with lots of hot air from the Oscar PR machine's pump.

Because their evidence did nothing to damage the PT's case, and very little to bolster the DT's - most felt it was a PR driven moment in the trial.

Much embellishing, with a huge dollop of tailoring and sympathy for Oscar's cause; nothing more than character witnesses for the DT - yet more than a few points scored for the PT I reckon?

Most in SA felt they were over the top sugary and therefore not as credible as they might have been had they stuck to the facts..............and ignored the 'poor Oscar' angle.

Of course there are the 'believers' who sobbed with the Standers...........(then again these are folk who believe Oscar managed to open and kick doors whilst brandishing a firearm in the dark etc etc etc etc)

Around here, he would've walked and then be given a parade.

 

[TorisMom003]

So since we now know that Carice was a part of taking Reeva's purse from OP's house, is the thought still that she wouldn't take OP's phone from the house because she is a lawyer?

 

[DebinGA]

I don't understand why he wanted an older gentleman from several blocks away to come over first, when he had other faster options at hand.

RSBM

I think you hit the nail on the head a page back:

He seemed to do everything but get Reeva immediate care. He even insults the first doctor on the scene, calling him useless. Meanwhile OP is sticking his fingers in her mouth to 'help her breathe?

OP didn't want Reeva to recover and did his best to make sure she didn't imo.

 

[Cymbaline]

RIGHT. and she and her dad answer and say NO, THE AMBULANCE IS ON THE WAY. [ which was not true.]

But WHY did OP wait for them to come? Frank was asleep, in a room, off the kitchen. He could have carried her immediately to OP's car and off they'd go.

OR he could have had Baba help him take her. But he sent them away by saying it is all fine.

I don't understand why he wanted an older gentleman from several blocks away to come over first, when he had other faster options at hand.

OP did not want to help take Reeva to the hospital. If it really was a speedy trip to the hospital that he wanted he would have put Reeva in his BMW and drove the girl that he loved to the emergency room. He didn't do anything to save her.

Dr Stipp testified that he saw Oscar through that bathroom window. Dr Stipp called security because he heard gunshots. Security immediately arrives in their security car. Dr Stipp then spoke to security from his balcony. Dr Stipp points out to security that the gunshots came from OP's house.

If Dr Stipp can see OP, OP can see Dr Stipp. OP can also see Dr Stipp talking to security. Security is in a clearly marked Silver Woods Country Estate security car equipped with flashing lights that I will assume are flashing.

It is my opinion that OP looked out his bathroom window, saw security at Dr Stipps and then and only then decides to make his first phone call to the one person that can stop security. The estate manager.


JMO

 

[ColonelMustard]

I guess I will give him the benefit of the doubt. If the majority of us thinks he is going to be spending a time in jail, I am sure he is seeing the same thing - a slow motion train wreck with him in it but rejoicing at any small advantage he may have.

Such a pity - his strong character created so much success for him that he was in cloud 9 but it is also the same thing that made him fall back to earth (and into jail).

Judging by Masipa past judgments, by the time he gets out, he will be a very old man and no one is going to remember who he is - just another disabled person who killed his gf.

Sounds like a movie in the making

Now, there's a good question. Can criminals in SA benefit financially from the crimes they've committed? In the US, no.

 

[Budgie]

So since we now know that Carice was a part of taking Reeva's purse from OP's house, is the thought still that she wouldn't take OP's phone from the house because she is a lawyer?

Surely her being of legal ilk she would know not to disturb evidence/crime scene.
Further to the phones...do we actually know or has it been established what RS's last call sms/text was on her cellphone?

 

[ColonelMustard]

Surely if he goes to jail for a long time when he gets released he will become President!

Edited, as I'm on my phone!

Good one!

 

[TorisMom003]

Surely her being of legal ilk she would know not to disturb evidence/crime scene.
Further to the phones...do we actually know or has it been established what RS's last call sms/text was on her cellphone?

Even with her being of legal ilk she knew that Aimee took Reeva's purse from OP's house. That should have never been allowed and Carice should have told Aimee to take the purse back into the house and put it where she got it.

Reeva's phone, I believe the last text was around 10/10:30 to Gina Myers about it being late and staying at OP's for the night.

MOO

 

[vansleuths]

Mrs. N (a Tswana speaker) and Mr. N both confirmed that they have been following the trial.

Mrs. N says she's a housewife and she likes watching the trial on TV.

She heard a bang. Help, help, help. Then a man crying. No bangs after that.

So what does this mean:

Did she hear gun shots then help help help

or

Did she hear cricket bat then help help help

 

[ColonelMustard]

OH OH

I am a middle child of three... I hope my destiny is not terrible....


[ however I am the only girl, so that changes the middle child syndrome]

I'm also a middle child. I'm completely nuts and I'm proud OF it!

 

[DebinGA]

OP didn't push the alarm panic button because he didn't accidentally shoot Reeva. He executed her in a fit of rage.
JMO :seeya:

I wonder if a desperate Roux recently told his ballistic expert/s that he needed testimony that the bullet holes in the door were random, not targeted execution-style, and the expert refused to do that? There was scuttlebutt that the trial ended early today because one of Roux's witnesses had backed out. Hmm...

 

[ColonelMustard]

I'm also certain that Barry and his minion Oldwage would have explained to Oscar that things aren't exactly going as planned.....

Oscar won't like this, and you are correct, I expect a few more outbursts - 'exposure of true self' moments ahead.

This is why his sister prays hypnotically in court, she is almost willing him/begging him/pleading with him to remain calm and not 'blow up'. She and Carl have spent their lives 'calming' poor Oscar I would imagine - and their work is far from done......

Oldwage. Name sounds like a dreary character in a Dickens novel.

 

[TorisMom003]

I wonder if a desperate Roux recently told his ballistic expert/s that he needed testimony that the bullet holes in the door were random, not targeted execution-style, and the expert refused to do that? There was scuttlebutt that the trial ended early today because one of Roux's witnesses had backed out. Hmm...

I'm thinking that a lot of the expert witnesses backed out before today. That was why Dixon became an "expert" jack of all trades.

MOO

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Mrs. N the housewife would not describe what she heard as either a gunshot or a cricket bat strike. She would only describe it as a bang. When prompted, she did describe it as loud.

 

[crasshopper]

Something new to watch. Just started myself so I make no claims about nuthin'

oscar trial legal panel 13 - YouTube

That was an excellent analysis of the potential legal ramifications Stander's testimony. Will wait and see if Nel or the Judge address.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Re Netcare, OP keeps saying the same thing about that call so I don't see a recording or an operator coming forward to directly refute what he and Roux keep telling the court.

The call lasted 66 seconds and that is a long conversation for OP on that night. I believe this much is possible: If OP were to call Netcare and he already had it in his mind that he was going to drive Reeva to the hospital, he could argue with the operator for 66 seconds very easily and get them so flabbergasted that they would, just to stop his yelling and screaming at them, finally release him at some point so that he could do whatever he was demanding that he was going to do with or without their consent.

Remember the reports of an Olympic roommate that had to move out of the room he was sharing with OP because OP was always yelling at people over the phone?

Just a theory. But plausible.

Interesting. I'd forgotten about the roommate's statement. Hmmmmm....

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Regarding Frank the Houseboy, if a witness claims to have been asleep and heard nothing and he steadfastly sticks to that story, there is nothing the police or the defense can do about it

However, in relistening to Carise Stander's testimony she says that when she and Dad arrived at Oscar's house that night there were "people in the street". Asked who, she replied "security and Frank".

Now wait. Frank who lives in the house and slept through everything was out in the street - presumably dressed - at this extremely early point? Oscar had not even come down the steps yet!

To me, this casts an entirely new, very hinky light on Frank! Perhaps he was going to assist Oscar by "taking Reeva to the hospital". Perhaps Oscar needed Uncle Johann to get out through the guarded gates to the estate unseen by the on duty guards.

The guard Mr. Baba and the arrival of Dr. Stitt may have interrupted a body disposal plan?

 

[crasshopper]

RSBM

I think you hit the nail on the head a page back:

OP didn't want Reeva to recover and did his best to make sure she didn't imo.

Highlighting a portion of Tori's post:

"I think that OP called Netcare, didn't tell the extent of her injuries, said he would drive her to hospital/was told to bring her to hospital, and knew that an ambulance was not coming because of HIS call."

 

[Cymbaline]

So what does this mean:

Did she hear gun shots then help help help

or

Did she hear cricket bat then help help help

Humor me and pretend you have a gun in your hand with your finger on the trigger. Pull the trigger 4 times in quick succession. No pausing. Your finger is in constant motion. It's fast. It's really fast.

Quick succession is OP's version. So fast that Reeva didn't have enough time to scream.


Now, pretend you are holding a cricket bat and try to manouver it in quick succession with enough force to break down a locked door that opens outward.

It's a fun little experiment.


JMO.

 

[crasshopper]

Regarding Frank the Houseboy, if a witness claims to have been asleep and heard nothing and he steadfastly sticks to that story, there is nothing the police or the defense can do about it

However, in relistening to Carise Stander's testimony she says that when she and Dad arrived at Oscar's house that night there were "people in the street". Asked who, she re[lied "security and Frank".

Now wait. Frank who lives in the house and slept through everything was out in the street - presumably dressed - at this extremely early point? Oscar had not even come down the steps yet!

snipped by me.

In Frank's defense, he's been living in Oscar world :Bennymonkey: