Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[aoibhinn]

I wonder if we will be hearing from this guy, although this confuses thing's even more.

AT EIGHT minutes past three on the morning of Valentine’s Day Christo Menelaou woke with a start. He’d heard what sounded like three thunderclaps.

At his home in the Silver Woods Estate east of Pretoria he lay in bed waiting for the rain to start.

Almost an hour later he went to the bathroom.

When he opened the window and looked outside he couldn’t believe his eyes. His window looks out onto an empty plot and Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius’ house.

The two men are close friends.

“His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside the house.

http://drum.co.za/celebs/hes-heartbroken/

This is interesting. I've seen his name mentioned before. Cheers, James.

 

[Greater Than]

also, if the alarm was on... when did op pick up the remote and his keys to switch it off and unlock the front door?

and, why after the shooting, did he even need to switch it off? he has shouted for help from the balcony; for help by phone from stander; but didn't allow the alarm to shout for help???

which suggests to me that the alarm was never on. they never went to sleep. etc, etc, etc.

Agreed.

I've lived in homes with security systems my entire life. With our security systems, all doors must be closed in order to set the alarm. If the system is armed, opening any door leading to the outside, including a sliding glass door, will immediately set off the alarm. The windows have screens that are wired, so the house can still be armed with the windows left open. But if a screen is cut or removed, the alarm will go off.

I'm not sure about all the windows, but I know OP's bathroom window does not have a screen. I can't imagine how the system could possibly be armed with the bathroom window open (which was open the whole night IMO), and most certainly not with the sliding glass door open. MOO

 

[kittychi]

Wow, here is a new one: (apologies if this has been posted already, I am just jumping back in)

"PISTORIUS 'IN GRIP OF SATAN' WHEN HE FIRED SHOTS AT REEVA
Oscar Pistorius was being controlled by Satan when he fired the shots that killed Reeva Steenkamp, a religious group has claimed.
In a clemency plea to the trial judge Thokozile Matilda Masipa, the Christian organisation Action SA said the Paralympian did not intend to kill his girlfriend.
In a letter, the group told the judge: 'Although Oscar might have wanted answers and seek revenge of some sort of quarrel with Reeva, if that was the case, really he did not intend to kill her.
'In the moment of satanic rage he fired the deadly shots into the blank door.
'Immediately after realising that she had been hit did realisation of his deed shocked him back into reality (sic).'
The letter begged the judge not to impose a prison sentence because it would be 'of no or little value to the accused, the community, the world or the next criminal'.
The group instead urged the judge to sentence him to community service if he is found guilty, according to the International Business Times."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...night-athlete-killed-Reeva.html#ixzz314nTYBeJ

 

[crasshopper]

This trial hasn't been very "CSI" has it?

Excellent points!

Thank you Emz!

 

[sleuth-d-]

This has just a little more info on the Kim Myers incident. To be honest, I wished they'd couched it in slighter milder words than 'very sinister'. It's a shocker of him to say what he said for sure, to say anything to her really, but to say that in particular takes a lot of hide. But IMO 'sinister' is heavy enough for his more ardent and sometimes vicious supporters out there to go to town on, and indeed the 'hang him high' people can get in on it too. 'Deeply disturbing' maybe?

http://www.businessinsider.com/pistorius-accused-of-making-sinister-remark-to-witness-2014-5#!KCyS5

from the link above:

Pistorius is on trial at Pistorius High Court for the alleged premeditated murder of Miss Steenkamp. The prosecution say he shot at the model four times through a locked lavatory door at his Pretoria home after a row. He insists he did so thinking she was an intruder.

is op sponsoring the whole trial?

 

[Val1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleuth-d- View Post
i think it is fair to say the stipps view was partially obstructed by trees. dr stipp described how the trees covered part of the bathroom window.

looking at the two attachments, i doubt they could see the bedroom balcony [because of the trees].

interesting how directly adversarial the two properties are... op and stipp.

They had 2 balconies - one partially obstructed and the other not.

Just making a note that some of the photos the DT used to show the trees obstructing the view were, iirc, taken at least a month after the murder. I'm not sure when the growing season is in SA but I seem to recall that in the photos from the 14/15th of Feb the trees/bushes were quite a bit shorter than the ones the DT used.

 

[Val1]

So do we ;-)

I actually just learned from a post yesterday that in SA the old system is referred to as 'imperial' vs the metric system. Perhaps the comment was tongue in cheek but, who knew?

I'm Canadian... so yes I knew that. I still think in feet and inches but celsius for temps...

 

[Fuskier]

Oh I agree. As I said in an earlier post, I think he was awake and witnessed the whole thing.

The family will not want him to testify if what he witnessed trashes OP's version of events and he may have said that he will not take the stand and lie for them (and the family may also worry that he would break under cross examination).

The PT may have thought that because he is still employed by the Pistorius family, the chances of him telling the truth are zero so it is pointless to call him.

So in his view, the easiest thing to do is to claim complete ignorance however unbelievable it is.

Frank may have known 'the lay of the land' only too well IMO. Hypothetically, he knew OP's fixation with guns. Having heard 'gun shots' he was fearful for his own safety; he instinctively knew it was OP going off. The situation unsafe for him. He got out of his quarters as fast as he could. Hypothetically, loyalty to his employer may require that he 'see/hear/know nothing' to outsiders.

However, this is a murder trial. Reeva was shot to death. Frank's loyalty needs to be challenged IMO.

 

[Madeleine74]

Oh sidenote to Cherwell:

I'm still LOLing about your "guilty feet have got no rhythm" George Michael quote. I've had the song playing in my head for over a day and I've been walking around laughing. I find myself wanting to tell people the whole thing but then ... they wouldn't really understand.

Anyway, that was WELL PLAYED!

That was the gift that keeps on giving. It's going into my mental archives among the funniest posts evah!

 

[Fuskier]

yes, instead of being a doctor, carice was a legal adviser, who also had good knowledge of where the towels and spare overnightbags were in the house, and could help with 'returning reeva's bag to her mother'. she could also phone all op's friends with the mysterious missing phone at 4am [but not call the mother].

that business with carice and aimee, and reeva's bag doesn't look good imo.

Good point IMO. Seems OP had a sympathetic approach right from those first people on the scene. Hopefully their protective behaviour towards OP will be commented upon in Nel's summation.

 

[Viper]

Hmm, I just for the first time went back to read the text messages between Reeva and Oscar. In those long ones, I really see Oscar's self-centredness and controlling nature. Reeva is being quite straightforward in explaining how his behaviours affected her, but he is blaming everything on her. "She talked to another man when she could see he was upset." Nothing is his fault, it's her. Even in the "more loving" messages read out by the defense, there is a sense of Reeva trying to soothe, console, nurture and take care of him. You get the feeling that she's a bit walking on eggshells not to upset him.

Tink

BIB. I agree with you, sort of. IMO Reeva in her lengthy text messages was not only pouring her heart out about her feelings of being treated in a rude and/or unkind way, Reeva was letting OP have it! She was telling him off! Although in a very soft and feminine way. She was very angry and wanted him to change, wanted him to treat her with love and respect. But have no doubt about this, Reeva was resolutely speaking out and she expected him to yield to her demands.

The night that she was murdered IIRC Reeva's arguing loudly with OP was clearly heard; and perhaps it was heard most often over OPs yelling. I tend to think that whatever started the argument that night Reeva was having none of it and was standing her ground in that argument. That goes against how her friends describe her, but that is my opinion.

That her bag was later found neatly packed leads me to believe that she had given up on it and just wanted to leave. It was over for the two of them, their relationship, and OP just could not let her drive away, for whatever stupid reason. And when it got physical Reeva retreated. That OP held her captive for 15 minutes in a closet and continued to argue or whatever is psychotic. Shooting at her to kill her through the door is just plain evil.

:twocents:

 

[Zinn]

I'm seriously starting to wonder if his sole intention of phoning Stander was because he wanted someone to take Reeva to hospital so he could "sort a few thing's out" whilst he was home alone. IMO.

I agree with an earlier post by Cymbaline that OP may have hoped Stander could run interference for him with security.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Fuskier]

FWIW, she actually did tell him she had fallen in love with him in the text message she sent after the embarrassingly jealous scene he made at her friend's engagement party:

"... I'm the girl who fell in love with u and wanted to tell you this weekend."

Conversely, he testified that he "never had the opportunity" to tell her that he loved her.

http://www.businessinsider.com/oscar-pistorius-sent-this-text-to-reeva-steenkamp-2014-3

Oh wow! I had not seen this entire text before.

Relationship Red light right there on 26 January. She was shot to death by OP on 14 February. It is sad to think that Reeva did not discuss these relationship dynamics with another caring adult. Red lights re OP's interactions/responses towards Reeva right there IMO.

Looking forward to hearing the psychological witnesses.

 

[JudgeJudi]

But according to what OP is saying about his version, she would have been there in the bed, right in the vicinity where the alarm remote would be. So the question would be WHY didn't he tell her to hit the panic button? If she had lived at his home for a week alone, she must have known how it worked.

Yet he told the court he didn't think she knew how. :waitasec:

I think the lady assessor is seeing that as an untruth told by OP.

The fact that the assessor has raised this twice and has never commented on anything else raises a big red flag for me. Reeva stayed alone in the house for days at a time while OP was away. OP said he always set it at night and always locked the bedroom door. So one of them has deliberately turned it off. Reeva may have done so when she went downstairs for her snack. I think it more likely that OP turned it off for a sinister reason.

I find it curious that he said he locked the bedroom door. Why? If the alarm was activated there was no need for this. Surely if he slept with the balcony doors wide open it would have been more prudent to keep the bedroom door open. If an intruder entered via the balcony, he could have either pressed the panic button or just gone outside the bedroom door tripping the alarm. Isn't that just what you'd want? The alarm goes off and security are on their way.

OP went into detail about the bedroom door, about the locking mechanism and the wood contracting due to the heat. What? Everyone knows that timber expands during hot humid weather. I think there's more to the damage to the bedroom than we know.

Because OP always liked to be in control, I'm sure he would have had his prostheses on, particularly if they were having an argument. His appearance would certainly make him look more dominant. He'd also have the ability to run after Reeva if she was trying to get away from him.

 

[Feynman]

Just making a note that some of the photos the DT used to show the trees obstructing the view were, iirc, taken at least a month after the murder. I'm not sure when the growing season is in SA but I seem to recall that in the photos from the 14/15th of Feb the trees/bushes were quite a bit shorter than the ones the DT used.

Pretoria's Feb. 15 is corresponds to our Aug. 15 in the north. They are about 150 miles outside the tropic of Capricorn, so fairly tropical is my guess.

 

[Greater Than]

Interesting. I read that story and think instead....yep, add one more instance in which he FEARED AN INTRUDER in the middle of the night, rational or not.

Katy, I live in a US city ranked in the top 10 for murders and violent crime. There have been 3 or 4 daylight home invasions in my immediate neighborhood within the past 6 months. But...neither my husband or myself owns a gun . My hubby is ex hard core military. He knows how to shoot , but doesn't want to have a gun in the house. Neither of us is paranoid about crime. Unlike him, I refuse to lock every door in the house, day or night, because I refuse to live in fear.
Given where we live and the immediate crime threat my decision to not lock doors is irrational.

And there is my point. People are inconsistent and are irrational often enough. That OP had balcony doors open and hadn't fixed the alarm doesn't mean he wasn't paranoid. His long track record of fearing the worse with no basis is plenty indicative of how OP behaved in the middle of the night when he heard a noise he couldn't account for. Perhaps he was all the MORE paranoid exactly because he knew the alarm system wasn't 100% .

As for OP within a few minutes being capable of thinking up the intruder story within minutes because of that encounter. Nah. Whatever else he is, OP is not a sociopath. Take a look at Jodi Arias or Melissa DeVault or Casey Anthony or Scott Peterson if you want to see how sociopaths react after the fact about their victims. OP was in such distress one of his neighbors had to walk away from the scene. His distress was real and extreme, whatever you believe about what was causing it. If you've ever expsrienced such extreme emotion you know that it is impossible to be thinking at the same time, much less calculating.

JMO

BBM - I am not following your point. You said you are not paranoid about crime, so you do not lock your door. So from that I take it if you were paranoid about crime, you would.

OP claims he is paranoid about crime, but you think just because he sleeps with doors wide open and doesn't turn on his alarm it doesn't mean he's not paranoid?

 

[Val1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymbaline View Post
BBM

The February 14th 01:48AM – GPRS – 309 seconds
Could be a WhatsApp message to Frank.


Hey Frank, we're hungry.


JMO

Interesting that this occurs just before Estelle van der Merwe is woken at 01:56 by a loud woman's voice which lasted about an hour.

There's always the possibility that OP leans both ways and RS walked in on it and OP "needed" to stop her, if not by coercion, then force.

 

[JudgeJudi]

BBM

Unless she couldn't because OP was blocking her way. I tend to agree with Val that this argument started downstairs. I think that Reeva ran upstairs for two reasons....1 to get away from OP and 2 to get her things so she could leave. I think that is why the bedroom door is as damaged as it is. Reeva locked OP out of the bedroom and he broke through the door. MOO

I too believe the argument started downstairs and then subsided. They may then have gone upstairs for some time, looking at cars etc on the phone. At approx. 1.00 they both went downstairs, Reeva had her snack and the argument started up again. She retreated to the bedroom with him in pursuit, OP grabbing the bat on the way (he kept trophies downstairs). She locked the bedroom door and he bashed it in. At some point the duvet landed on the floor. The inside out jeans, could well be that she was putting them on and he ripped them them off her. The blood splatter continued from the duvet to those jeans. He then threw the jeans with the white belt outside.

 

[Val1]

Just what this story was missing 'the cell phone in the toilet bowl' excuse

Yes, though that would kind of explain how so much of the blood and stuff got on the bat and possibly that one panel, I can't see OP sticking his hand in there to get it .... however, I don't recall any evidence of the cell phone having water damage let alone brain tissue or bone fragments on/in it.:twocents:

 

[Val1]

Why didn't OP phone this friend first? Curiouser and curiouser.

Because that was the friend that lent him the ladders....