Trial Discussion Thread #34 - 14.05.06 Day 27

[minor4th]

Bill of Particulars and Further Bill of Particulars. Sorry, I went a little acronym happy there lol

Hahaha ..

Here is the Charge Sheet

Here's the Indictment

Here is the State's Heads of Argument

Here is the defense "Heads of Argument"

Here is the Bill of Further Particulars

 

[atthelake]

OK I give up. I can not listen to OP any longer to try and find out about:

The security in his house and the "open zone" (sorry Viper, can't handle it any longer),
Which day he talked about Sam T saying that it takes 4 minutes to put on his prosthetic legs (sorry Paysee, I tried to tough it out but I can't take his voice anymore),
The part where Nel asked him about if his screaming voice was tested and he said yes (sorry DebinGA, see the reason I gave to Paysee).

Perhaps someone else doesn't mind a little torture and will be willing to do listen to his cross again. I stopped listening around 25:15 on 11 April.

Sorry again folks.

:seeya: tori !

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[ColonelMustard]

I've just done a quick 'at a glance' table showing witnesses testimony regarding the scream/talking/crying/help sounds. Feel free to use this for reference or modify as required.

I've erred on the side of caution and included a tick against Estelle Van der Merwe for both Reeva and OP's crying sounds, as she thought it was Reeva but her husband told her it was OP.

.Wow.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here we have OP saying he was a vulnerable, disabled guy, trapped in his bedroom. But there was actually a male employee right downstairs. Surprises the heck out of me that he didn't call Frank's cell and warn him about the intruders, and ask for some back up.

And why would OP call an old man who lived blocks away, for help lifting Reeva? He had Frank, his man servant, already on the premises. That blows my mind that Nel hasn't questioned the DT about that.

It really is odd and there is more to it than we have heard yet. imo

Wouldn't Frank be the perfect witness for Roux to dispel the rumors that OP and RS were arguing loudly that night? Why wasn't he put up there to debunk that?

This is really bugging me too. He obviously knew something was going on in the house. How could he not have heard anything. Even the SAPS were surprised when he said he knew nothing. He was dressed and on the driveway shortly afterwards. Why, if he heard nothing? Obviously his position wouldn't be well paid and he's now out of a job. Could it be that OP's family paid hush money. They all would have known Frank. If so, he'd hardly testify for the PT.

 

[toevlugsoord]

Apologies if this has been answered, but how do the closing remarks work exactly? I remember reading that they have up to 6 weeks to prepare them.

But when they actually give them, is it 10 minutes long?
Is it hours long?
Is it just Nel talking, then Roux talking, then it's over? (and then the Judge takes the time to decide)

 

[ColonelMustard]

bbm - Just trying to clarify, didn't one of the earlier witnesses claim they had also heard a man's voice at that time repeating the woman's call for help and when pressed to speculate under cross she had suggested it may have been in mocking?

.yup.

 

[ColonelMustard]

As I've said time and time again on here, I think some people would be absolutely astonished by how quickly some abusive/manipulative/pathological liar types can come up with their lies .. I know I always used to be when I knew mine. Add to that, as you say, the intruder one is an extremely obvious one to go for .. it wouldn't exactly need a huge amount of effort for someone of that ilk to dream up.

..+5..

 

[toevlugsoord]

This has just a little more info on the Kim Myers incident. To be honest, I wished they'd couched it in slighter milder words than 'very sinister'. It's a shocker of him to say what he said for sure, to say anything to her really, but to say that in particular takes a lot of hide. But IMO 'sinister' is heavy enough for his more ardent and sometimes vicious supporters out there to go to town on, and indeed the 'hang him high' people can get in on it too. 'Deeply disturbing' maybe?

http://www.businessinsider.com/pistorius-accused-of-making-sinister-remark-to-witness-2014-5#!KCyS5

Thank you -- the best article yet about the incident.
I read elsewhere that it was Van Staden that was the police officer who saw him talking to her but didn't hear what was said (I think?) and one of the journalists who witnessed it works for Bloomberg. I've studied the video of where Kim and her mom were sitting but can't find the names of those journalists near them.
It's actually completely crazy that this happened. It's possible she is lying about what he said, but it's clear he did lean towards her and say something. Why not just admit it when asked about it later.
It really makes you doubt anything he's ever said.
No end to the drama surrounding this case!!!

 

[ColonelMustard]

I don't believe he is paranoid though .. he has just been trying to instill that into everyone that he is, in order for his 'fear of intruders' thing to stick.

Agree.

 

[Fuskier]

I certainly would not want to be in his shoes. No doubt he doesn't want his name splashed all over the media and I'm sure he feels some sense of loyalty to his boss, but I'm sorry, a defenseless woman was horrifically executed. If he had a shred of integrity and decency, he would testify to what he saw and/or heard that night to ensure justice is served. MOO

Carl Pistorius and Oldwage were at the crime scene in those vital first hours. Is it possible they had spoken with Frank? Their interests would be to protect OP given that he had shot Reeva to death that night. They would anticipate the upcoming Police investigation and eventual a murder trial IMO (both being experienced in this area).

 

[ColonelMustard]

This picture looks like her back wound.

It does. What is this? What fabric/item of clothing are we seeing here?

 

[sleuth-d-]

Carl Pistorius and Oldwage were at the crime scene in those vital first hours. Is it possible they had spoken with Frank? Their interests would be to protect OP given that he had shot Reeva to death that night. They would anticipate the upcoming Police investigation and eventual a murder trial IMO (both being experienced in this area).

quite possibly. still trying to work this 'frank' guy's location...

looking at van rensburg: 14 march session 2 / 18:41
he says at 14:00 the police locked up the house, gave the gardener food for the dogs, and that this gardener lived in the back right of the garden. and that they took his housekeys away too.

is this 'frank'? or did op have two helpers on site?
imo, sad that the police do not give names to the people working/living at the house.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Don't forget the "going commando" on a running washing machine as well. However OP didn't shoot the washing machine at that time.

UrbanDictionary.com

Going Commando
Not wearing any underpants
Im goin commando today!
by Groovatron February 28, 2002


Ha!

 

[Cymbaline]

It does. What is this? What fabric/item of clothing are we seeing here?

Bullet proof vest.

 

[Greater Than]

This is really bugging me too. He obviously knew something was going on in the house. How could he not have heard anything. Even the SAPS were surprised when he said he knew nothing. He was dressed and on the driveway shortly afterwards. Why, if he heard nothing? Obviously his position wouldn't be well paid and he's now out of a job. Could it be that OP's family paid hush money. They all would have known Frank. If so, he'd hardly testify for the PT.

If they paid him off, that's witness tampering.

I wonder if the Stander daughter, who upon her arrival at the crime scene started calling all the shots, pulled Frank aside and said "you saw nothing, you heard nothing, you know nothing. Got it?"

 

[ColonelMustard]

Do you know you can just input "1.23m in feet" in your browser's Google search box and it gives the answer?

HTH

Cool, I didn't know there was this even easier way.

 

[Suthrnqt]

This is really bugging me too. He obviously knew something was going on in the house. How could he not have heard anything. Even the SAPS were surprised when he said he knew nothing. He was dressed and on the driveway shortly afterwards. Why, if he heard nothing? Obviously his position wouldn't be well paid and he's now out of a job. Could it be that OP's family paid hush money. They all would have known Frank. If so, he'd hardly testify for the PT.

Sounds like Frank is OP's Kato, kwim?

 

[ColonelMustard]

Nel made a point of the so called tampering during Carice Stander's cross. He showed a photo with a towel on the floor and then asked Stander if that was how she left the scene. When she said it was, Nel said something like "at least that scene wasn't disturbed."

Also during Carice Stander's testimony. Stander mentioned that a policeman took her and Aimee upstairs. Nel asked her who the policeman was. She said the one sitting behind Nel. Nel turned around and stuck his finger under Bennie van Staden's nose. "This one?" Carice said yes. Then she said that Van Staden's face was burned into her mind and she would never forget it for as long as she lived and...Nel finished her sentence...and unfortunately it's his face.

I'm completely missing these under the breath, quick, mumbling things. Gotta pay more attention.

 

[Cymbaline]

Does anyone have a chemistry background?
Is this Kevlar?

JMO

 

[ColonelMustard]

Same here in the UK

We in the American Colonies seem to be the only ones still using the "Imperial" system.