Trial Discussion Thread #40

[Gbtaketwo]

I am rather gutted at being able to return to trial stalking :blushing: only to have the trail whipped away from me. For now at least.

The period post general election is always a rather hectic time for me work wise and this time round the timing was AWFUL. :tantrum:

With this adjournment I am going to catch up on all the threads, the discussions, the video footage, the opinions etc.

Whatever else this trial has or hasn't been, no-one can call it 'boring'. :ufo:

Glad to have you back .
This is the first trial I have ever followed and don't imagine any other in trial in the future could end up like this one .Maybe the Dewani will be compulsive watching for me but not in the same league as OP's.

 

[Mr Fossil]

That was a big black eye for Roux and Oscar.. as an officer of the court himself, Roux should have had his client assessed long before the trial in the event of the matter being raised,.. Professor Cat-among-the Pigeons Vorster raised it , and after only 2 short sessions with the client. But Oscar put her up in that order.. ..

I get the distinct impression that Roux is battling over riding input, Arthur, Oscar, Aiimee ,etc.. sure, they pay the bill ( and I hope Roux is getting a running estimate and payment program that is right on track, because getting his money out of this crew is not assured) .. but their legal advice would be precisely zero. I firmly believe that Oscar jibbed about having a psyche assessment done from the get go and was forced into it after he gave evidence.. too little and too late. There is no doubt in my mind that Roux , an experienced attorney wouldn't have done his best to convince Oscar of the necessity..

Which brings me to my main point. this whole defence is seemingly done on the fly. It's all reactive, even retroactive.. it didn't seem to get started until the actual trial. Bits and pieces, but nothing comprehensive or even integrated.. a severe lack of funding is my only reason I can think of.

Interesting bits. Oscar put his house in Silverwoods up for sale back on 2011.. this was a sort of boom time, prices rose a bit, and Oscar maybe thought he could , I hate to use the phrase, make a killing on the property market... but it didn't sell, it was overpriced, and under upkept to attract the price he was asking.. .

It is still up for sale when he meets Reeva.. its an ongoing thing. It has become a liability now that he trains in Italy for 4 months of the year. sometimes 6 months.. . he introduces Reeva to Mr N.. the next door neighbour, the cranky one.. and now he wants to sell it because he is moving to J'burg with Reeva. his fiance..

Then. after the murder.. he tells Prof Vorster, that he was selling it because of its lack of security..

3 stories.. one house.

BIB Do you not think this is as a result of OP changing his story? My guess is that any defence that was previously prepared would now contradict (or certainly not support) OP's latest version and has had to be shelved. Add to this OP's instructions (I would love to be a fly on the wall to his discussions with the defence team) and Roux is left to think on his feet with the inevitable consequences that we have seen.

 

[Trooper]

BIB Do you not think this is as a result of OP changing his story? My guess is that any defence that was previously prepared would now contradict (or certainly not support) OP's latest version and has had to be shelved. Add to this OP's instructions (I would love to be a fly on the wall to his discussions with the defence team) and Roux is left to think on his feet with the inevitable consequences that we have seen.

BBM

Certainly that is part of it..but not all of it.. for example... Botha, the first witness for the defence. .. he didn't get started on his speciality until September.. 2013... Dixon, who , it has to be said, had the air of a man called in as substitute with no idea at all of what he was to substitute for or with.. Vorster herself, absolutely called in on the hop and given very very little time to work within...

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Glad to have you back .
This is the first trial I have ever followed and don't imagine any other in trial in the future could end up like this one .Maybe the Dewani will be compulsive watching for me but not in the same league as OP's.

I happened to see Shrien Dewani when he made his fleeting appearance on Monday. By good fortune I happened to stumble past the man and his entourage.

Doesn't appear to be as fragile as what he was on April 8th (not sure of date). Certainly seemed to be more aware of his surroundings etc.

There is a slight chance that DSTV - Channel 199 - currently the Oscar channel (A Carte Blanche channel) will be covering the Dewani case.

Polls indicate that most would welcome this in a BIG way. :blushing:

 

[Gbtaketwo]

BBM

Certainly that is part of it..but not all of it.. for example... Botha, the first witness for the defence. .. he didn't get started on his speciality until September.. 2013... Dixon, who , it has to be said, had the air of a man called in as substitute with no idea at all of what he was to substitute for or with.. Vorster herself, absolutely called in on the hop and given very very little time to work within...

Botha was brought in because Reggie Perumal wouldn't play the defences ball game perhaps ?

 

[DILLIGAF]

His mental health hasn't been at issue up until now afaik. Why do the "experts" think he should have been assessed earlier if there was no issue there? Are they advocating mental health assessments for anyone who has killed someone?

No, not anyone.

But considering the circumstances of this shooting, I think an assessment would be a very logical thing for a defence lawyer to pursue. Maybe OP refused.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

BBM

Certainly that is part of it..but not all of it.. for example... Botha, the first witness for the defence. .. he didn't get started on his speciality until September.. 2013... Dixon, who , it has to be said, had the air of a man called in as substitute with no idea at all of what he was to substitute for or with.. Vorster herself, absolutely called in on the hop and given very very little time to work within...

Tragically it seems evident that Wollie Wolmarans dragged the good Mr Dixon on board on the day of Oscar's bail hearing.
The two are obviously good friends, and Wollie was simply giving a mate a 'good gig'.

That it all went south was unfortunate for both. (This due to Oscar planning, managing and for all intents 'handling' his own defense through his instructing attorney Brian Webber. Roux simply takes instruction, with Oldwage I'm sure adding little due to his rather limited experience in such matters.)

At least Wollie and Dixon can meet at Jocks and the IPA House (I have also visited and in fact STAYED there whilst on a course years back :blushing and enjoy steak OR pork chops depending on availability. :facepalm:

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I happened to see Shrien Dewani when he made his fleeting appearance on Monday. By good fortune I happened to stumble past the man and his entourage.

Doesn't appear to be as fragile as what he was on April 8th (not sure of date). Certainly seemed to be more aware of his surroundings etc.

There is a slight chance that DSTV - Channel 199 - currently the Oscar channel (A Carte Blanche channel) will be covering the Dewani case.

Polls indicate that most would welcome this in a BIG way. :blushing:

I am from the UK so will certainly be trying to keep up with it . I can't believe we have had to wait this long for him to be brought to trial . It must have been agony for Anni's family .Same goes for Reeva's family . Nothing will bring her back but the truth and justice is an important part of the grieving process IMO

 

[kaos]

That was a big black eye for Roux and Oscar.. as an officer of the court himself, Roux should have had his client assessed long before the trial in the event of the matter being raised,.. Professor Cat-among-the Pigeons Vorster raised it , and after only 2 short sessions with the client. But Oscar put her up in that order.. ..

I get the distinct impression that Roux is battling over riding input, Arthur, Oscar, Aiimee ,etc.. sure, they pay the bill ( and I hope Roux is getting a running estimate and payment program that is right on track, because getting his money out of this crew is not assured) .. but their legal advice would be precisely zero. I firmly believe that Oscar jibbed about having a psyche assessment done from the get go and was forced into it after he gave evidence.. too little and too late. There is no doubt in my mind that Roux , an experienced attorney wouldn't have done his best to convince Oscar of the necessity..

Which brings me to my main point. this whole defence is seemingly done on the fly. It's all reactive, even retroactive.. it didn't seem to get started until the actual trial. Bits and pieces, but nothing comprehensive or even integrated.. a severe lack of funding is my only reason I can think of.

Interesting bits. Oscar put his house in Silverwoods up for sale back on 2011.. this was a sort of boom time, prices rose a bit, and Oscar maybe thought he could , I hate to use the phrase, make a killing on the property market... but it didn't sell, it was overpriced, and under upkept to attract the price he was asking.. .

It is still up for sale when he meets Reeva.. its an ongoing thing. It has become a liability now that he trains in Italy for 4 months of the year. sometimes 6 months.. . he introduces Reeva to Mr N.. the next door neighbour, the cranky one.. and now he wants to sell it because he is moving to J'burg with Reeva. his fiance..

Then. after the murder.. he tells Prof Vorster, that he was selling it because of its lack of security..

3 stories.. one house.

Regarding the house, Dr Vorster and I think the neighbour Mr N both testified that he was moving to be closer to Reeva and not from what I recall to move in with Reeva.

Regarding some people on here seeing OP's assessment as a win for the DT then I'd ask of those people if it's a win then hasn't Roux done his client a disservice by not having him assessed within a month or two after he killed Reeva?

Cape Town Crim, does this assessment mean there'll be some kind of trial within a trial? i.e. Do both the PT and DT get to examine, cross examine each of the psychiatric team or does the judge just get handed a report?

 

[Trooper]

Tragically it seems evident that Wollie Wolmarans dragged the good Mr Dixon on board on the day of Oscar's bail hearing.
The two are obviously good friends, and Wollie was simply giving a mate a 'good gig'.

That it all went south was unfortunate for both. (This due to Oscar planning, managing and for all intents 'handling' his own defense through his instructing attorney Brian Webber. Roux simply takes instruction, with Oldwage I'm sure adding little due to his rather limited experience in such matters.)

At least Wollie and Dixon can meet at Jocks and the IPA House (I have also visited and in fact STAYED there whilst on a course years back :blushing and enjoy steak OR pork chops depending on availability. :facepalm:

Brian Webber must be a saint.. he has enough on his plate to try the patience of a saint..

I recall when I first noticed that something was weirdly wrong with the defence, it was when Roux got up when Van Staden was giving evidence.. he objected along the lines of his client had told him MANY MANY pictures of him were taken without his permission etc. Roux built it up to paparazzi status... as if the police photographer would be bothered..

He made Van Staden go back to his office and produce ever pic of Oscar he ever took. Staden comes back with 5 more to add to the original 9.. Oscars complaints of many hundreds went south and put egg on Barrys face, he didn't deserve that. many an instructed Barrister has run with the story the client's attorney has had to pass on..

Oscar bigging himself up and complaining at the same time. par for the course.. it has only escalated, too.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Good morning from a very chilly Cape Town. Just as my ‘post general election’ workload gives me a break, the trial halts. Oh dear.

However, one must celebrate this turn of events. (Even though selfishly, we would all like this circus to reach some sort of finality)
The reason I say we should celebrate this turn of events is multi layered.

1. Taking into account the SA Constitution and the blanket of silence IT (and as a follow through – the Criminal Procedure Act) affords the accused, this referral IN THIS CASE MOST SPECIFICALLY, is GOLD.
2. Who says Barry Roux and the defense DID NOT have Oscar fully evaluated by various ‘clinically qualified’ individuals before the trial started? We must remember that Oscar’s ‘psychologist’, Dr Lore Hartzenberg, is an EDUCATIONAL psychologist – NOT a clinical psychologist. This goes a long way in explaining her irrelevant, inappropriate and whacked behaviour. Very important distinction to be made here. His other psychological support comes in the form an ‘industrial’ psychologist. Once more – zero relevance to clinical psychology IMHO. (It’s like having a gynae (who is a medical doctor yes) commenting on advanced neurosurgery). Once OP’s testimony had failed so dismally, Barry’s hand was forced in terms of sending OP to Dr Vorster (who is most respected in SA) in the hope that a short consultation, with only favourable info re: OP, would ONLY highlight some sort of ‘minor’ disorder which ‘could’ have played a part in his actions. Sadly for the defense, Dr Vorster has been around the block more than once – this was clear in her evidence. Many felt she was ‘pro’ Oscar – I thought the opposite. She made it CLEAR that the chap in all probability ‘could’ have issues far beyond the realms of GAD. Listen to her evidence and read between the lines. SHE wanted to open the door for further (and more in-depth) evaluation, and was delighted when Gerrie mentioned it. She even quite gleefully suggested this might be a ‘good idea’. I believe that she is well aware of what might be found – YES, he might have GAD (lower side of the scale I would think) – BUT: there is more, much more – with greater relevance to the incident in question.
3. Barry’s anger at Dr Vorster entering the court without him having a moment to confer with her was ‘CRUCIAL’ IMHO. He needed to have a chat with her before she took the stand......he couldn’t due to her entering the other side of the court.......and he flipped (taking out his frustration on Roxanne Adams) He knew there was a hug risk, and he needed Dr Vorster to play certain things down. She didn’t, and the rest as we know is history.
4. I fully believe that Oscar WAS evaluated by clinical teams before the trial, and it was decided very quickly to bury those reports and not use them at all. Barry would have been extremely negligent if he had NOT done this pre-trial. And whilst he had the client from hell, he is not negligent. I also believe firmly that these reports would have been damning. Besides this, Oscar himself would be fighting ‘tooth and nail’ to avoid any sort of ‘exploration of his mind’ – in fact probably performing and posturing terribly the entire time said tests were conducted pre-trial. He is aware on some level that he has a personality disorder (I state this from MOO, but with some certainty) as are most – qualified clinicians or not. Oscar’s history attests to this.
The fights
The firearm carelessness
The speeding
The recklessness
Etc

Be reminded that ALL of these factors, conveniently left out in terms of Dr Vorster’s evaluation, WILL be considered in the upcoming one.

5. Gerrie has managed to enter into evidence, by means of this evaluation, ALL SORTS of things he would not have been able to before. Be reminded that Dr Vorster had statements from Oscar’s friends (Divaris etc) and family – this panel is entitled to delve a little further if they feel it necessary (and they will....) by asking the state to provide them with statements from let’s say for example, The Myers sisters; Bachelor; Sam Taylor’s mother etc. They might not – BUT, the psychiatrist appointed by the prosecution, will most certainly be interested in exploring his ‘behavioural history’ with relation to this case and the build up of events leading to Feb 13. This of course, would include the escalation in Oscar’s behaviour from Sept 2012 until the Feb 13. This folk, is GOLD. Everything the defense worked so hard to ‘keep out’ is now being let in – albeit in a rather backwards manner. Remember, this usually happens during the sentencing phase so I am going to give you an example of how detailed SOME sections of the evaluation may be – there will be forensic social workers, the 3 appointed psychiatrists (defense, prosecution, and state institution), clinical psychologists etc.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/killer-teen-taught-that-men-don-t-cry-1.1688381#.U3Rjcyg0ojg
6. Perhaps Barry is torn. He must know that Oscar stands a huge risk of being diagnosed in similar lines to the 17 year old in the above matter – yet, he also knows that Oscar is in fact a danger to society – not because of his GAD, but his recklessness. How many could he have killed by firearm, speeding etc already? His family also know this to be true. The PERMANENT look of panic on his sister’s face, and the manner in which she glances at him every 3 secs tells me all I need to know about WHAT the family know. They have enabled, covered and buried very deep the true nature of his disorder (and personality). The time for reckoning has come – and like Roux, they must, on SOME level, feel deep relief.
7. Many think Gerrie Nel is taking this personally. I say no. His ONLY concern is justice. Not only for Reeva, but for society at large. He realises the need to have Oscar removed from society – because he is a danger - and I do believe that he is not concerned how this is done – as long as it is done. Those feeling Roux has scored a point here might very be correct – but not in the way they think. Roux at heart, would not want a loose cannon on the streets of SA. Oscar has continuously put the lives of innocents at risk – speeding cars, speeding boats, firearm negligence etc. Roux knows this, and he knows this is indicative of a personality disorder that IMHO WAS diagnosed pre-trial but buried (because Oscar would be having NONE of this at all)
8. The only person, who seems to be unaware of the very obvious kinks in OP’s personality, is OP himself. This is the problem Roux has been saddled with from Day 1. Oscar has been running his own defense supported by his own narcissism and very little else.
9. His day of meeting his true self is drawing near. Oscar won’t like it one bit. Society on the other hand will.
Sorry for the long post – but I just had to add my 2 cents. I just threw my thoughts down.


Narcissism however, will not get him any sort of ‘tread carefully and work gently’ attention from M’lady. No, just like the 17 year old mentioned in the link I posted above, it would be a custodial sentence for him in one of our prisons. (Not that I mind if he is declared criminally insane and packed off to Weskoppies for 15 years)

**Sorry for any typos etc – rushed post with more to come

Thank you so much!! Well said!!

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

It would be very helpful to know what the DT's brief for Dr V was.

 

[Fuskier]

Good morning from a very chilly Cape Town. Just as my ‘post general election’ workload gives me a break, the trial halts. Oh dear.

However, one must celebrate this turn of events. (Even though selfishly, we would all like this circus to reach some sort of finality)
The reason I say we should celebrate this turn of events is multi layered.

1. Taking into account the SA Constitution and the blanket of silence IT (and as a follow through – the Criminal Procedure Act) affords the accused, this referral IN THIS CASE MOST SPECIFICALLY, is GOLD.
2. Who says Barry Roux and the defense DID NOT have Oscar fully evaluated by various ‘clinically qualified’ individuals before the trial started? We must remember that Oscar’s ‘psychologist’, Dr Lore Hartzenberg, is an EDUCATIONAL psychologist – NOT a clinical psychologist. This goes a long way in explaining her irrelevant, inappropriate and whacked behaviour. Very important distinction to be made here. His other psychological support comes in the form an ‘industrial’ psychologist. Once more – zero relevance to clinical psychology IMHO. (It’s like having a gynae (who is a medical doctor yes) commenting on advanced neurosurgery). Once OP’s testimony had failed so dismally, Barry’s hand was forced in terms of sending OP to Dr Vorster (who is most respected in SA) in the hope that a short consultation, with only favourable info re: OP, would ONLY highlight some sort of ‘minor’ disorder which ‘could’ have played a part in his actions. Sadly for the defense, Dr Vorster has been around the block more than once – this was clear in her evidence. Many felt she was ‘pro’ Oscar – I thought the opposite. She made it CLEAR that the chap in all probability ‘could’ have issues far beyond the realms of GAD. Listen to her evidence and read between the lines. SHE wanted to open the door for further (and more in-depth) evaluation, and was delighted when Gerrie mentioned it. She even quite gleefully suggested this might be a ‘good idea’. I believe that she is well aware of what might be found – YES, he might have GAD (lower side of the scale I would think) – BUT: there is more, much more – with greater relevance to the incident in question.
3. Barry’s anger at Dr Vorster entering the court without him having a moment to confer with her was ‘CRUCIAL’ IMHO. He needed to have a chat with her before she took the stand......he couldn’t due to her entering the other side of the court.......and he flipped (taking out his frustration on Roxanne Adams) He knew there was a hug risk, and he needed Dr Vorster to play certain things down. She didn’t, and the rest as we know is history.
4. I fully believe that Oscar WAS evaluated by clinical teams before the trial, and it was decided very quickly to bury those reports and not use them at all. Barry would have been extremely negligent if he had NOT done this pre-trial. And whilst he had the client from hell, he is not negligent. I also believe firmly that these reports would have been damning. Besides this, Oscar himself would be fighting ‘tooth and nail’ to avoid any sort of ‘exploration of his mind’ – in fact probably performing and posturing terribly the entire time said tests were conducted pre-trial. He is aware on some level that he has a personality disorder (I state this from MOO, but with some certainty) as are most – qualified clinicians or not. Oscar’s history attests to this.
The fights
The firearm carelessness
The speeding
The recklessness
Etc

Be reminded that ALL of these factors, conveniently left out in terms of Dr Vorster’s evaluation, WILL be considered in the upcoming one.

5. Gerrie has managed to enter into evidence, by means of this evaluation, ALL SORTS of things he would not have been able to before. Be reminded that Dr Vorster had statements from Oscar’s friends (Divaris etc) and family – this panel is entitled to delve a little further if they feel it necessary (and they will....) by asking the state to provide them with statements from let’s say for example, The Myers sisters; Bachelor; Sam Taylor’s mother etc. They might not – BUT, the psychiatrist appointed by the prosecution, will most certainly be interested in exploring his ‘behavioural history’ with relation to this case and the build up of events leading to Feb 13. This of course, would include the escalation in Oscar’s behaviour from Sept 2012 until the Feb 13. This folk, is GOLD. Everything the defense worked so hard to ‘keep out’ is now being let in – albeit in a rather backwards manner. Remember, this usually happens during the sentencing phase so I am going to give you an example of how detailed SOME sections of the evaluation may be – there will be forensic social workers, the 3 appointed psychiatrists (defense, prosecution, and state institution), clinical psychologists etc.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/killer-teen-taught-that-men-don-t-cry-1.1688381#.U3Rjcyg0ojg
6. Perhaps Barry is torn. He must know that Oscar stands a huge risk of being diagnosed in similar lines to the 17 year old in the above matter – yet, he also knows that Oscar is in fact a danger to society – not because of his GAD, but his recklessness. How many could he have killed by firearm, speeding etc already? His family also know this to be true. The PERMANENT look of panic on his sister’s face, and the manner in which she glances at him every 3 secs tells me all I need to know about WHAT the family know. They have enabled, covered and buried very deep the true nature of his disorder (and personality). The time for reckoning has come – and like Roux, they must, on SOME level, feel deep relief.
7. Many think Gerrie Nel is taking this personally. I say no. His ONLY concern is justice. Not only for Reeva, but for society at large. He realises the need to have Oscar removed from society – because he is a danger - and I do believe that he is not concerned how this is done – as long as it is done. Those feeling Roux has scored a point here might very be correct – but not in the way they think. Roux at heart, would not want a loose cannon on the streets of SA. Oscar has continuously put the lives of innocents at risk – speeding cars, speeding boats, firearm negligence etc. Roux knows this, and he knows this is indicative of a personality disorder that IMHO WAS diagnosed pre-trial but buried (because Oscar would be having NONE of this at all)
8. The only person, who seems to be unaware of the very obvious kinks in OP’s personality, is OP himself. This is the problem Roux has been saddled with from Day 1. Oscar has been running his own defense supported by his own narcissism and very little else.
9. His day of meeting his true self is drawing near. Oscar won’t like it one bit. Society on the other hand will.
Sorry for the long post – but I just had to add my 2 cents. I just threw my thoughts down.


Narcissism however, will not get him any sort of ‘tread carefully and work gently’ attention from M’lady. No, just like the 17 year old mentioned in the link I posted above, it would be a custodial sentence for him in one of our prisons. (Not that I mind if he is declared criminally insane and packed off to Weskoppies for 15 years)

**Sorry for any typos etc – rushed post with more to come

Cape Town Crim welcome back. Been looking for your posts which are GOLD. Thank you for this post. It makes sense of much in this contorted, convoluted defense case. Brilliant comprehensive post IMO.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Regarding the house, Dr Vorster and I think the neighbour Mr N both testified that he was moving to be closer to Reeva and not from what I recall to move in with Reeva.

Regarding some people on here seeing OP's assessment as a win for the DT then I'd ask of those people if it's a win then hasn't Roux done his client a disservice by not having him assessed within a month or two after he killed Reeva?

Cape Town Crim, does this assessment mean there'll be some kind of trial within a trial? i.e. Do both the PT and DT get to examine, cross examine each of the psychiatric team or does the judge just get handed a report?

How this is pursued post the evaluation would depend on 'what' the reports contain, and the extent to which the panel is in agreement or not. Remembering that 3 Psychiatrists could come up with 3 different opinions - confirming a diagnosis of GAD, ignoring a diagnosis of GAD, making a new diagnosis etc.

I find it unlikely that state and defense are going to be in full agreement as to what the various reports dictate and state.

This is where it will get interesting, as from a personal side, I have never witnessed an referral at THIS advanced stage of trial. The norm is pre-trial and during sentencing.

What happens in court is going to be dependent on the findings and WHO disagrees with them IMHO.

State re-open case on new evidence?
OP found to have acted without any impairment?

New territory for me.

 

[pandax81]

Hello all! First time poster here (been lurking to an unhealthy degree during this trial however)! I thought posting this might be useful:

79 Panel for purposes of enquiry and report under sections 77 and 78

(1) Where a court issues a direction under section 77 (1) or 78 (2), the relevant enquiry shall be conducted and be reported on-
(b) where the accused is charged with murder
(i) by the medical superintendent of a psychiatric hospital designated by the court, or by a psychiatrist appointed by the medical superintendent at the request of the court;
(ii) by a psychiatrist appointed by the court and who is not in the full-time service of the State unless the court directs otherwise, upon application of the prosecutor, in accordance with directives issued under subsection (13) by the National Director of Public Prosecutions;
(iii) by a psychiatrist appointed for the accused by the court; and
(iv) by a clinical psychologist where the court so directs.

(1A) The prosecutor undertaking the prosecution of the accused or any other prosecutor attached to the same court shall provide the persons who, in terms of subsection (1), have to conduct the enquiry and report on the accused's mental capacity with a report in which the following are stated, namely-
(a) whether the referral is taking place in terms of section 77 or 78;
(b) at whose request or on whose initiative the referral is taking place;
(c) the nature of the charge against the accused;
(d) the stage of the proceedings at which the referral took place;
(e) the purport of any statement made by the accused before or during the court proceedings that is relevant with regard to his or her mental condition or mental capacity;
(f) the purport of evidence that has been given that is relevant to the accused's mental condition or mental capacity;
(g) in so far as it is within the knowledge of the prosecutor, the accused's social background and family composition and the names and addresses of his or her near relatives; and
(h) any other fact that may in the opinion of the prosecutor be relevant in the evaluation of the accused's mental condition or mental capacity.

(2) (a) The court may for the purposes of the relevant enquiry commit the accused to a psychiatric hospital or to any other place designated by the court, for such periods, not exceeding thirty days at a time, as the court may from time to time determine, and where an accused is in custody when he is so committed, he shall, while he is so committed, be deemed to be in the lawful custody of the person or the authority in whose custody he was at the time of such committal.
(b) When the period of committal is for the first time extended under paragraph (a), such extension may be granted in the absence of the accused unless the accused or his legal representative requests otherwise.

(3) The relevant report shall be in writing and shall be submitted in triplicate to the registrar or, as the case may be, the clerk of the court in question, who shall make a copy thereof available to the prosecutor and the accused.

(4) The report shall-
(a) include a description of the nature of the enquiry; and
(b) include a diagnosis of the mental condition of the accused; and (c) if the enquiry is under section 77 (1), include a finding as to whether the accused is capable of understanding the proceedings in question so as to make a proper defence; or
(d) if the enquiry is in terms of section 78 (2), include a finding as to the extent to which the capacity of the accused to appreciate the wrongfulness of the act in question or to act in accordance with an appreciation of the wrongfulness of that act was, at the time of the commission thereof, affected by mental illness or mental defect or by any other cause.

(5) If the persons conducting the relevant enquiry are not unanimous in their finding under paragraph (c) or (d) of subsection (4), such fact shall be mentioned in the report and each of such persons shall give his finding on the matter in question.

(6) Subject to the provisions of subsection (7), the contents of the report shall be admissible in evidence at criminal proceedings.

(7) A statement made by an accused at the relevant enquiry shall not be admissible in evidence against the accused at criminal proceedings, except to the extent to which it may be relevant to the determination of the mental condition of the accused, in which event such statement shall be admissible notwithstanding that it may otherwise be inadmissible.

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

It would be very helpful to know what the DT's brief for Dr V was.

"Don't dig too deeply. You will see him twice and will only hear from his family and friends. We think he has a minor anxiety disorder.........."

 

[Trooper]

it is just as likely that Vorster was fooled.. She herself said, well, he could be lying.. its as likely as not that the panel of Pscyhs will detect no GAD forensically.. they might just find him to be a gunhappy murdering lying ... no conditions at all. or none that are disabling.

 

[Fuskier]

That was a big black eye for Roux and Oscar.. as an officer of the court himself, Roux should have had his client assessed long before the trial in the event of the matter being raised,.. Professor Cat-among-the Pigeons Vorster raised it , and after only 2 short sessions with the client. But Oscar put her up in that order.. ..

I get the distinct impression that Roux is battling over riding input, Arthur, Oscar, Aiimee ,etc.. sure, they pay the bill ( and I hope Roux is getting a running estimate and payment program that is right on track, because getting his money out of this crew is not assured) .. but their legal advice would be precisely zero. I firmly believe that Oscar jibbed about having a psyche assessment done from the get go and was forced into it after he gave evidence.. too little and too late. There is no doubt in my mind that Roux , an experienced attorney wouldn't have done his best to convince Oscar of the necessity..

Which brings me to my main point. this whole defence is seemingly done on the fly. It's all reactive, even retroactive.. it didn't seem to get started until the actual trial. Bits and pieces, but nothing comprehensive or even integrated.. a severe lack of funding is my only reason I can think of.

Interesting bits. Oscar put his house in Silverwoods up for sale back on 2011.. this was a sort of boom time, prices rose a bit, and Oscar maybe thought he could , I hate to use the phrase, make a killing on the property market... but it didn't sell, it was overpriced, and under upkept to attract the price he was asking.. .

It is still up for sale when he meets Reeva.. its an ongoing thing. It has become a liability now that he trains in Italy for 4 months of the year. sometimes 6 months.. . he introduces Reeva to Mr N.. the next door neighbour, the cranky one.. and now he wants to sell it because he is moving to J'burg with Reeva. his fiance..

Then. after the murder.. he tells Prof Vorster, that he was selling it because of its lack of security..

3 stories.. one house.

To our Trooper, thank you for contribution to the thread, reporting on the Trial as it happens and providing informative, witty commentary as well.
Much appreciated by all IMO. Look forward to you and your dog stories, many of which have made me laugh aloud. Keep up the great work. :cheers:

 

[toevlugsoord]

3. Barry’s anger at Dr Vorster entering the court without him having a moment to confer with her was ‘CRUCIAL’ IMHO. He needed to have a chat with her before she took the stand......he couldn’t due to her entering the other side of the court.......and he flipped (taking out his frustration on Roxanne Adams) He knew there was a hug risk, and he needed Dr Vorster to play certain things down. She didn’t, and the rest as we know is history.

snipped for space

Wow, this is a fascinating comment (your entire comment). Thank you so much.

I left this part in because I must have looked away at the moment of this interaction -- I went and found it so I could watch it.
Go to 1:28:00 as W leaves the stand and you'll see it...very interesting for anyone else who hadn't seen it:
Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 12 May 2014, Session 1 - YouTube

 

[Cape Town Crim.]

Brian Webber must be a saint.. he has enough on his plate to try the patience of a saint..

I recall when I first noticed that something was weirdly wrong with the defence, it was when Roux got up when Van Staden was giving evidence.. he objected along the lines of his client had told him MANY MANY pictures of him were taken without his permission etc. Roux built it up to paparazzi status... as if the police photographer would be bothered..

He made Van Staden go back to his office and produce ever pic of Oscar he ever took. Staden comes back with 5 more to add to the original 9.. Oscars complaints of many hundreds went south and put egg on Barrys face, he didn't deserve that. many an instructed Barrister has run with the story the client's attorney has had to pass on..

Oscar bigging himself up and complaining at the same time. par for the course.. it has only escalated, too.

Can you imagine the pressures of defending an undiagnosed Narcissist?
I believe they are all saints.
OP rules like Joffrey Lannister did, before his unfortunate end.

Interesting that his room mate during the Olympics moved out of their shared room due to OP shouting at people over his phone 24/7.

I can only imagine the DT meetings. :facepalm:

His family on the other hand just seem to be plain scared of him and his reactions. His sister's entire demeanor is that of a 'fearful woman' - pardon me for saying this.
Furtive glances the entire time to make sure her brother isn't going to implode, the praying, the silent begging, the pandering to his ego during every break, the consoling. Fear. fear. fear. It's the only reason a seemingly intelligent woman would take a hand bag from a crime scene. IMHO of course.