Trial Discussion Thread #5 - 14.03.11-12, Day 7-8

[james83]

Thanks, and I hear you. It's quite unbelievable that anyone could be so stupid.
But I look at it like this, my family have been victim to a home invasion, I was asleep on the couch when the intruder/s more than likely stood over me, I cannot even begin to imagine what I would have done if I had woken at that moment, I like to think that I would have just pretended to carry on sleeping until they left but something tells me adrenalin would kick in and it would not be possible to control my actions. And I would have probably been left with a whole lot of "could have, would have, should have" kwim? I honesty don't know and in no hurry to test the theory anytime soon

I appreciate what you are saying Carol and i'm sorry to hear of that terrible experience.
I just can't look past him not waking her, i just can't swallow his story and believe me i have tried.

 

[sorrell skye]

Vermeulen told the court there were footprints consistent with police shoes on the bathroom door at one point and photos of this were shown. They were later removed and Vermeulen said he did not know how.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial/

1. Police boot prints on the door = contamination/mishandling of evidence

2. Removal of police boot prints on the door = tampering with evidence and/or removing traces that showed the evidence had been contaminated/mishandled

When I watch a movie or TV series about crime scene investigation and I see the actor-investigators tromping all over a crime scene, possibly destroying evidence, I get annoyed, but I try to turn off my 'plausibility police radar' because it's just fiction.

But when I see it occurring in real life, in a real life murder investigation - it irks me (to put it mildly) to no end because there's no excuse for it whatsoever.

 

[Carol70]

I you don't mind Carol what about the precise a woman screams heard by all of the ear witnesses who were high profiled and
creditable , well educated lecturerer , doctors etc Dou you think like Roux that what they heard was in fact it was Oscar screaming ? :tantrum:

All of us have surely have heard mens and womens screams from near or far distances ? Very simple. Just close yr eyes and think of a woman screaming for her life ?is it anything like a man screaming ? Or the contrary ? :facepalm:

Yep, for sure. It's one of those loose ends Im stumped about. Ive never disputed that they didn't hear a woman's screams but will wait to see what roux does to counter this. Considering one of the witnesses already admitted to mistaking OP screaming for a woman, who knows...maybe he does really scream like a girl lol.

 

[Carol70]

I do not recall the testimony as the guards doing rounds at just after 3:00am.

I also do not recall Roux saying there was evidence from the prosthetic in the door. I recall him say evidence of a sock.

Baba testifies that he got back to the guard house at 2.55 when a few minutes later,(just past 3)his colleague arrived to tell him he had heard gunshots. I'm sure that's what he said but will confirm if I can

 

[james83]

I you don't mind Carol what about the precise a woman screams heard by all of the ear witnesses who were high profiled and
creditable , well educated lecturerer , doctors etc Do you think like Roux that what they heard was in fact Oscar screaming ? :tantrum:

All of us have surely heard mens and womens screams from near or far distances ? Very simple. Just close yr eyes and think of a woman screaming for her life ?is it anything like a man screaming ? Or the contrary ? :facepalm:

These seem like reasonable representations

[video=youtube;GPJ1uQwmNHk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPJ1uQwmNHk[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3vSRzkG82U

 

[Really?]

I really don't know what to make of Nel, he doesn't come across as very protective of his witness's at times.
There just seems to be very laid back demeanor about him.
Maybe it's all part of the plan and the best is yet to come.

raying:

 

[Carol70]

But if i recall correctly, didn't the doctor say he was woken by 3 shots followed by a woman screaming 2 or 3 times, followed by 2 or 3 additional shots?(fit's perfectly with the door as seen today), it doesn't seem a stretch to say the doctor could have missed the first shot if he was woken by shots, that's perfectly understandable.
Burger woke up just after 3 to loud female screams followed by 4 in her words gunshots.
There accounts don't seem to be that different considering they were in different locations.
Was Burger pushed on how long after 3 she heard screams?, "just after 3" seems open to interpretation.

No she wasn't but she was adament in her testimony. I just checked and she said she woke AT 3am. Baba said his colleague let him know a few minutes after 2.55 that he had heard shots. I guess it is open to interpretation on what a few minutes are however, I do not believe that the 3.17 "gunshots" is what killed Reeva. Not at this stage anyway. I don't think it can be disputed that there was anymore or any less than 4 shots fired. All current evidence points to 4 shots fired.

 

[Carol70]

I appreciate what you are saying Carol and i'm sorry to hear of that terrible experience.
I just can't look past him not waking her, i just can't swallow his story and believe me i have tried.

Haha, it's ok. I don't expect you too, I value your opinion....and the debate is fun.

 

[james83]

Baba testifies that he got back to the guard house at 2.55 when a few minutes later,(just past 3)his colleague arrived to tell him he had heard gunshots. I'm sure that's what he said but will confirm if I can

I thought Stipp reported gunshots to Baba at 3.15, i don't think he was aware of shots before that?.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

I think many, many of us wanted this to have been just some horrible accident. I know I surely did. But it has just been that the more you learn the worse it gets.

I did not follow this story until the trial was just about to begin. Didn't know anything about the prior gun incidents or any of the witness testimonies at the Bail Hearing regarding a woman's screams having been heard.

Certainly have done a lot of reading since then.

 

[Cherwell]

I appreciate what you are saying Carol and i'm sorry to hear of that terrible experience.
I just can't look past him not waking her, i just can't swallow his story and believe me i have tried.

Especially as he now says that she wasn't asleep; that they were talking before he went out on to the balcony. It makes it even more implausible that he wouldn't say anything to her.

 

[Carol70]

I thought Stipp reported gunshots to Baba at 3.15, i don't think he was aware of shots before that?.

Lol, I'm starting to feel like Roux now

Stipp called it in at that time, that was after hearing the gunshots, walking onto his balcony to see what was going on, telling his wife to get out the way and then making the call...this is just off the top of my head and could be wrong..but think that was the order of his events.

I have to say the timing is a complete mess with all the calls and gunshots, it's about the only true fact so far in this case haha.

 

[Niner]

excerpted quote:
Where did you read that?

Sorry, I didn't copy the link that was on Post# 806, which is:
http://gragrah.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/four-phones-found-in-house-of-pistorius.html

from article:
On the shower mat in the en-suite bathroom lay a firearm and an iPhone 4 and iPhone - there were blood spatters on one of the phones.

 

[Carol70]

I thought Stipp reported gunshots to Baba at 3.15, i don't think he was aware of shots before that?.

I just want to add quick that it's the STATES case that Reeva was killed by a shot to the head at 3.17 so just shows how much note they took of their own witnesses who reported gunshots before that time.

 

[james83]

Lol, I'm starting to feel like Roux now

Stipp called it in at that time, that was after hearing the gunshots, walking onto his balcony to see what was going on, telling his wife to get out the way and then making the call...this is just off the top of my head and could be wrong..but think that was the order of his events.

I have to say the timing is a complete mess with all the calls and gunshots, it's about the only true fact so far in this case haha.

Well one thing for sure is it has been Roux's intention to cause maximum confusion with timing's, we are proof that he succeeded, LOL.

 

[Carol70]

I'm off to bed...have an awesome day where ever you are in the world...let's see what tomorrow brings.

 

[sorrell skye]

I listened to most of the testimony in bed last night, and went to sleep very depressed and pessimistic. Roux won the day and will likely win the case. The judge seems to be on his side and I think Oscar will walk away from this evil deed. I will just hope that the natural laws of karma take over, and I will not rely upon this world's justice system, but pin my hopes upon the Greater Good. And So It Is:heartbeat:

I, too, went to bed feeling less than optimistic.

I don't know if the Judge is favoring Roux. I maintain trust she's remaining impartial and only appears to be giving Roux latitude so as not to give any misperception of bias toward the State. According to my reading, My Lady has a history of coming down hard on perpetrators of domestic violence.

I trust she will weigh all the witness testimony, forensic evidence, and apply her years of experience and wisdom when deciding the verdict, whatever her verdict may be.

One of the interesting things I read recently is that if she finds OP guilty of premeditated murder, she must explain why she did so. According to SA law, she can't simply deliver a guilty verdict.

I wonder if the same holds true if she acquits him of the premeditated murder charge?

 

[Dmacky]

I appreciate what you are saying Carol and i'm sorry to hear of that terrible experience.
I just can't look past him not waking her, i just can't swallow his story and believe me i have tried.

I totally agree with you James. Plus, who LOCKS themselves in the bathroom/toilet if your in a loving relationship??? I don't even close the door most of the time. :giggle: Especially in the middle of the night! She was afraid of him that night ! I still think that she had his phone and that is what sent him into a rage. MOO

 

[lonetraveler]

Who goes to the bathroom at 3:00 am and locks the door? Now, if you are running from someone during domestic violence, you would definitely lock the door, and probably take your cell phone with you to call for help. Only I don't think she had time to call for help, I think OP was so enraged because she would not unlock the door that he opened fire without thinking of the consequences. The neighbors statements about the loud arguing and the woman's screams prior to the gun shots make the domestic violence scenario very believeable, IMO. Yes I have followed this case since it first hit the news and have listened to the testimony and evidence has not changed my mind ie., guilty.

 

[james83]

I totally agree with you James. Plus, who LOCKS themselves in the bathroom/toilet if your in a loving relationship??? I don't even close the door most of the time. :giggle: Especially in the middle of the night! She was afraid of him that night ! I still think that she had his phone and that is what sent him into a rage. MOO

There is just no way on this earth anyone goes charging out of there bedroom without telling there partner what you believe is happening, is it instinctive.
Also he was apparently fearful of a break in yet allows ladders to be left outside of his house, lol.