Trial Discussion Thread #57 - 14.16.10, Day 46 ~ sentencing~

[Cherwell]

I wonder if OP will be warned by Masipa tomorrow of the possibility that he could face a custodial sentence on Tuesday (or whenever it is). I've certainly heard of that being said here in the UK before sentencing.

Personally I think Masipa deserves a custodial sentence as well. With toilet cleaning.

 

[Trotterly]

Why would you think that?

 

[Cherwell]

Why would you think that?

I had better not say, but most people here will know why.

 

[jacalyn]

This trial isn't even worthy of movie rights, its so pathetic. The audacity of talking about the condition of a bathroom/toilet. Explain the beautiful one Reevea was murdered in. How many doctors available, is this sentencing for going to a hospital...thought prison. Sure I read in a post, at inmates expense they can provide and pay for their own private care. WHY did they not complain the real problem is no BAR, Liquor is not served in prison, Oscar can not coupe with that. This is their Court-of-Law, and their calling this a trial.

You guys have been great and at least we have somewhere we can vent our aggravation and have mutual listeners. Thank-you WS

 

[jilly]

I wonder if OP will be warned by Masipa tomorrow of the possibility that he could face a custodial sentence on Tuesday (or whenever it is). I've certainly heard of that being said here in the UK before sentencing.

Where I live, if that was the case, there would simply be more security in the courtroom.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

It took the Paralympic committee less than a day after Pistorius was found guilty of killing a woman before welcoming him back to the fold.

“Oscar’s done a great deal for the Paralympic movement. He’s been an inspiration to millions...,” Craig Spence, the International Paralympic Committee director of media and communications, told BBC Radio 5 Live. “If he wishes to resume his athletics career then we wouldn’t step in his way – we would allow him to compete again in the future.”

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...s-and-ched-evans-why-do-men-matter-more-women

TRANSLATION:

We’re freakin DESPERATE to get Oscar back! * sniff * Dead woman, CH, cleaning toilets, whatever. We need his star power and massive money machine! My prestige is at stake! WAAAA!!!

Like Oscar, I think Spence is in for a spectacularly rude surprise.

The real black eye for the Paralympics (and Olympics) will not be the return of OP (the fans and social media will eviscerate him) - it’s this jackoff and everyone like him who promotes and excuses vile, criminal behavior, however indirectly.

I’m starting to believe that the macho, money-grubbing, aggression-promoting, misogynist cult of “sports heroes” should be declared a public health crisis, if not an official mental health pathology. The extensive damage it does on multiple social levels worldwide is at least as dangerous as ebola. It is no less a plague. Yes, that is a very bold statement, but ebola will eventually end - pandemics always do.

Culturally-sanctioned sociopathy, on the other hand, will continue to wreak hellish havoc and destroy lives, entire families. It will end only when children are taught proper priorities - human life and dignity for ALL is the highest value - not sports, fame and money.

Like the Pistorius family, society creates it own monsters.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I would like to share a news story from today, it's in Australia, a different system, but I thought of OP, and of JM's comments in comparison to this Judge. Ironically, the family of the deceased are outraged about the sentence, even though he was an intruder stealing from the accused, how must Reeva's family feel when their daughter is a complete innocent and a guest in OP's home.



Ivan D'Angelo was found not guilty of murder by a jury but pleaded guilty to manslaughter, which has a 20 year maximum.
He shot Vandenberg, who was with a friend using bolt cutters to break in to the Thomastown factory to steal a car.

D'Angelo, a recreational shooter, had smoked 68 bongs and drank 42 stubbies in the 24 hours before he aimed his .22 out of an upstairs window and fired.

"It is relevant to note that the circumstances came to you while you were asleep in your bed," Justice Lex Lasry said.

"You did not seek the tragic confrontation which occurred.

"I accept that you were frightened and your actions were the product of a feeling of panic."

Justice Lasry condemned these actions but assessed D'Angelo's risk of reoffending to be very low, pointing out the crime came to him and he has no prior convictions.

But he did send a message to the wider community about property protection.

"The idea that a person who is heavily intoxicated would choose a firearm rather than the phone as a first option to protect themselves is something the community must realize is likely to result in tragedy and, if it does, in significant punishment."


http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...family-denounces-sentence#DAREEPF8bzs1LdQu.99

 

[Cherwell]

TRANSLATION:

We’re freakin DESPERATE to get Oscar back! * sniff * Dead woman, CH, cleaning toilets, whatever. We need his star power and massive money machine! My prestige is at stake! WAAAA!!!

Like Oscar, I think Spence is in for a spectacularly rude surprise.

The real black eye for the Paralympics (and Olympics) will not be the return of OP (the fans and social media will eviscerate him) - it’s this jackoff and everyone like him who promotes and excuses vile, criminal behavior, however indirectly.

I’m starting to believe that the macho, money-grubbing, aggression-promoting, misogynist cult of “sports heroes” should be declared a public health crisis, if not an official mental health pathology. The extensive damage it does on multiple social levels worldwide is at least as dangerous as ebola. It is no less a plague. Yes, that is a very bold statement, but ebola will eventually end - pandemics always do.

Culturally-sanctioned sociopathy, on the other hand, will continue to wreak hellish havoc and destroy lives, entire families. It will end only when children are taught proper priorities - human life and dignity for ALL is the highest value - not sports, fame and money.

Like the Pistorius family, society creates it own monsters.

I thought they backtracked on that very quickly, am I wrong?

 

[Fuskier]

FYI from Australian Newscorp today:

http://www.news.com.au/world/africa...ng-hearing-day-4/story-fnh81gzi-1227092958201
Oscar Pistorius’s sentencing hearing Day 4
OCTOBER 17, 2014 5:49AM

Ms Martin concluded her evidence, about the devastating effect of Ms Steenkamp’s death on her family ... saying that she rejects Pistorius’ courtroom apology for the crime and that he must pay for what he has done.
Her family was not seeking revenge ... I really believe that Mr Pistorius needs to pay for what he has done,” Ms Martin said.
“I just feel that to take someone’s life, to shoot somebody behind a toilet door that is unarmed and is harmless needs sufficient punishment ... I don’t feel the suggested punishment fits the crime,” Ms Martin said...

 

[Fuskier]

A ruthless prison gang leader has threatened to 'take out' Oscar Pistorius if he is given preferential treatment in jail, a court heard today. Khalil Subjee - known as The General - said he would order 'a hit' on the double-amputee if his fame and wealth bought him an easy time behind bars.

Defence lawyer Barry Roux quoted the claims from a newspaper article to argue that the athlete's life would be at risk if he was jailed for killing his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. If he is jailed, the Paralympian will likely be sent to Kgosi Mumpuru prison in Pretoria, where feared gangs are notorious for turning new inmates into sex slaves in exchange for protection.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-jail-term-oscar-pistorius.html#ixzz3GJbQo6gH

I sometimes wonder if the Defence puts ideas into journalists' heads to write such an article which they can then bring to court. ...just as Roux claimed that wardens had phoned him about conditions in the prisons.

This is not beyond the realm of possibility IMO: a proactive defense strategy which this judge may find difficult to fathom. Well said.

 

[Susza]

I would describe his speech as condescending and at times supercilious.

Yes, these are the words I would have liked to find.

 

[Susza]

I just watched it then and it does seem she starts to make the carry on once she notices they are there, sitting quietly. One of them does mouth something to her but there's like half a dozen people between her and them so come on ... that's threatening enough to make you 'distraught' as some journos were reporting it and your patriarch 'extremely concerned' about your safety? Not saying it's at all appropriate or that those guys aren't thugs but as per usual the Pistorii are completely over reacting IMO. Anyway, I guess that poor PR woman is typing a press release as we speak. Another one.

I just watched it, too. Did you see the lady sitting closest to Schultz (sorry, I don't remember the correct spelling) received a cellphone from the left side of the Pistorius clan and handed it to the security sitting in front of her; the security seemed to read a message and handed it over to the security standing against the wall each of them read the message and then the phone was given back to where it came from.
Strange.

 

[JuneBug67]

Re the facts of the case, far better sleuthers than I have taken you on about the one aspect that you seem to think clinches things (the crack/bullet hole) and shown that you are by no means holding an ace with that card so maybe they'll have the patience to do it again. All I'll say is there are many disquieting aspects of how Masipa shuffled the evidence but here's just one example - she stated in her judgement that Reeva would not have had time to scream so OP could not have known it was her in direct contradiction to Professor Sayman's evidence. Who do you think is more likely to be right there - the pathologist with years of experience or the journalist turned social worker turned lawyer turned judge? If you want to talk about logic and reason, my money's on the doctor.

Bringing this over from yesterday's thread...points relating to perceptions of the Pistorius family and the data wiping incident on the phone respectfully snipped to focus my response.

The crack in the door has never been successfully argued away or even mitigated either in court or on websleuths. It is critical and definitive and it was rightly critical and definitive in the Culpable Homicide judgement.

Relating to your second point, unless you are referring to another point in the judgement Masipa did NOT claim what you suggest. She used the pathologist's evidence about Reeva's devastating injuries to support the idea that she could not have screamed 'at least in the way the witnesses reported that night'. It was not an opinion on whether Oscar could have heard her scream, it was an opinion that Reeva could not have been the person that the witnesses heard screaming after the shots because her injuries were too devastating.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Bringing this over from yesterday's thread...points relating to perceptions of the Pistorius family and the data wiping incident on the phone respectfully snipped to focus my response.

The crack in the door has never been successfully argued away or even mitigated either in court or on websleuths. It is critical and definitive and it was rightly critical and definitive in the Culpable Homicide judgement.

Relating to your second point, unless you are referring to another point in the judgement Masipa did NOT claim what you suggest. She used the pathologist's evidence about Reeva's devastating injuries to support the idea that she could not have screamed 'at least in the way the witnesses reported that night'. It was not an opinion on whether Oscar could have heard her scream, it was an opinion that Reeva could not have been the person that the witnesses heard screaming after the shots because her injuries were too devastating.

I think it has, many times, on Websleuths. It seems quite plausible to me that the crack through the bullet hole could have been caused by OP breaking the panel out after both the bat strikes and gunshots. Unfortunately, this was not argued in court though.

 

[geevee]

I somewhat agree, it couldn't have been more perfectly planned, the way AP reacted just seems over the top, firstly about request for the men to move and then her outburst at being insulted. I honestly don't know what to believe anymore.

She was just afraid of catching cooties. :facepalm:

Which brilliant court personnel thought it would be a good idea to seat these gentlemen near Lady Pistorius anyways? Couldn't they see the commotion coming? She's far too delicate to even be in the same room with such ruffians. :laughing:

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

My hubby says if he were Barry, he certainly would be happy with the apparent sentence.. A free and walking and clubbing killer...Would be his pleasure to sort it out.. God bless..
The justice JM could not provide will be OP's threat and biggest fear at each step he takes..
No justice, no peace..

 

[Mr Fossil]

Bringing this over from yesterday's thread...points relating to perceptions of the Pistorius family and the data wiping incident on the phone respectfully snipped to focus my response.

The crack in the door has never been successfully argued away or even mitigated either in court or on websleuths. It is critical and definitive and it was rightly critical and definitive in the Culpable Homicide judgement.

Relating to your second point, unless you are referring to another point in the judgement Masipa did NOT claim what you suggest. She used the pathologist's evidence about Reeva's devastating injuries to support the idea that she could not have screamed 'at least in the way the witnesses reported that night'. It was not an opinion on whether Oscar could have heard her scream, it was an opinion that Reeva could not have been the person that the witnesses heard screaming after the shots because her injuries were too devastating.

Masipa's chronology has the shots before the bat strikes, so Reeva cannot possibly scream in between. But if the sequence is reversed then this would accord with what some ear witnesses heard.

 

[jay-jay]

I just watched it, too. Did you see the lady sitting closest to Schultz (sorry, I don't remember the correct spelling) received a cellphone from the left side of the Pistorius clan and handed it to the security sitting in front of her; the security seemed to read a message and handed it over to the security standing against the wall each of them read the message and then the phone was given back to where it came from.
Strange.

I noticed that with the phone, too .. Schultz said on the radio interview that someone had typed a message on the phone to say they shouldn't be sitting where they were sitting (words to that effect .. I think) and it was passed to the security guards for them to read and presumably for them to sort something out, and then the phone got passed back again.

 

[JuneBug67]

I also asked about 'Photo 55' yesterday. A poster kindly provided a link and accompanying story. Thanks! I didn't know the photo by its number but was of course very familiar with it and it's significance. Many people have found it to be strong proof that Oscar lied about his actions and therefore strong proof of his guilt. This is not very good reasoning in my view. Months ago I said something to the effect that "I just can't seem to care very much about this photo/issue" because the prosecution's case was already lost in my view because of the evidence that put the shots first. That sentiment was effectively repeated in Masipa's judgement when she referred to things that had a lot of focus and debate in the trial but eventually paled in significance to other facts when the evidence is taken as a whole. The photo only proves that by the time the scene was photographed it didn't match Oscar's recollections. It doesn't matter if stuff got moved by the police or if Oscar's recollections were flawed or indeed what the explanation is, because the state case is already destroyed by other information.

 

[JuneBug67]

Masipa's chronology has the shots before the bat strikes, so Reeva cannot possibly scream in between. But if the sequence is reversed then this would accord with what some ear witnesses heard.

She didn't flip a coin. The evidence supported that the shots came first, and as Masipa pointed out that evidence was not contradicted. It's so simple, and so key.