Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

[zqtpie]

Watches.

Pic 55.

R: You will see there are in fact nine wristwatches..one removed by sisters..two went missing

V: Accused's sister accounted for that one, this one went missing

R: What about one on top of cabinet. That went missing as well.?

V: I don't know about that one

Maybe the sister took all the watches and they are just inferring that the keystone cops are responsible. Anything to undermine that investigation plays in Oscar's favour.

 

[FrancesB]

Originally Posted by james83 View Post
For sure Roux is desperate to get Botha up there and tear him to shred's, the way things are currently going i don't think he ever needs to do that to be honest.
Yes he is certainly hinting at scenario (2), i don't personally believe that's what happened, i just think the whole episode was handled by total buffons.

I have to disagree, Van Ransburg seems on the ball and like he handled the scene well. It's pretty obvious that he would get the photographer to take photos before any work was done, then take photos as work was done, which is what he said was done. I think Roux was trying to confuse matters by introducing the possibility that Botha arrived first and filled in a statement form specifically as the first cop on the scene. Van Rensburg was amazed by this and consistent in his claims that he was the first cop on the scene. If anyone is a buffoon, it appears to be Botha.

Is that deliberate from Botha? Or is he just an absolute liability? He is no longer in the police force.

 

[canny]

IMO extension chords are dangerous especially for a guy like Pistorius.

Tonight we learnt that OP does have air conditioning but it was broken so Roux said. Couldn't OP afford to have it fixed?

Also about the ladders. Von said there were about four or five ladders lying on the ground under the balcony side. IMO that is very telling but I did not see a photo of them. Were the ladders long enough to reach the bathroom window? Someone said that they were not a while ago.

Who do you think the next witness will, be?

I hope it is ballistics.

I hope it will be Stander his wife and their daughter. This ex cop described Stander as OP's friend, the role played by them in the immediate aftermath raises more questions than answers.

 

[FrancesB]

Zoom of OP night of the killing. Impossible to see if he has injuries though. Seems police had already made him remove his legs?

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexCrawfordSky/status/444406086561701888/photo/1

That photo is decptive, if you really look at it, Pistorius has his prosthetics on.

 

[zwiebel]

When OP carried Reeva downstairs, someone (Stander?) said her head was hanging above the handrail and there was a trail of blood. Is there only one handrail on the stairs? I am trying to work out if OP was carrying her with her right hip and arm wounds against his body, to see if those heavy bloodstains on his right side shorts make sense.

 

[Trooper]

maybe Nel is going to call all 107 of his witness. or a number like that.. since they have the extension. and a weeks break in between with the additional Easter break...

 

[04009margaret]

Did anyone understand what notice Roux was giving Nel & the court about the new bat mark on the door? I know from tweets from within the courtroom, that during breaks OP & his defense team have spent a lot of time examining the door, are now claiming that they have found a new bat mark on the door?

 

[FrancesB]

Very true, but he conceded that he found a forensic tech picking up the cocked gun from the bathroom floor with his bare heads.The murder weapon
compromised is such a manner by the police is the height of incompetence.

Yes canny, the gun was moved by an un gloved forensic guy, but Van Rensburg saw it happen and voiced his anger and made the forensic man put his gloves on. Hardly Van Rensburg's fault. He was angry about it, rightfully, and to me that indicates that Van Rensburg has a good idea of procedure. Botha, on the other hand, could be a liability in Pistorius's favor, so I hope Van Rensburg was the first cop in attendance.

If Botha messes this case up beyond possibility of accidental mistakes, if his mistakes are consistently detrimental to this case, then he needs to be investigated as to whether his mistakes were intentional.

 

[turaj]

When I follow a trial I usually can keep up with details but with this one , for many reasons I have not. I try to read the informative comments here and acknowledge my limitations in even offering an opinion. That said...from a distance and not getting into every detail of the "toilet door" etc. it seems to me that premeditated murder is not right and his story of intruder is not right. I think what happened that morning is somewhere in between and he clearly had enough knowledge of guns to know what he was going and it was not just one shot....so I hope there is something less than premeditated murder that MiLady can convict him of (here in US lesser charges) and this spoiled over indulged childlike man needs to be in prison for what he has done. I personally think he is putting on a big show in the courtroom.

 

[zwiebel]

That photo is decptive, if you really look at it, Pistorius has his prosthetics on.

You're absolutely right. On the unzoomed pic, I can just make out his whitish socks. What a strange perspective. Did they use a camera on one of those big tripods, I wonder?

ETA: Roux would point out my lack of observation here...

 

[Trooper]

Did anyone understand what notice Roux was giving Nel & the court about the new bat mark on the door? I know from tweets from within the courtroom, that during breaks OP & his defense team have spent a lot of time examining the door, are now claiming that they have found a new bat mark on the door?

It is urgent that Roux and Oscar find 4 batmarks.. extremely urgent, because its Roux position that all the ear witness people heard cricket bat whacking and mistook it for gunfire.. ( which was only fired 4 times.. so the 'bat whacks' have to imitate gun shots in frequency and speed ) .

of course, on that premise, the ear witnesses cant have heard gunshots... none.


so the more the merrier , in regard to bat marks for Oscar..

 

[zwiebel]

When I follow a trial I usually can keep up with details but with this one , for many reasons I have not. I try to read the informative comments here and acknowledge my limitations in even offering an opinion. That said...from a distance and not getting into every detail of the "toilet door" etc. it seems to me that premeditated murder is not right and his story of intruder is not right. I think what happened that morning is somewhere in between and he clearly had enough knowledge of guns to know what he was going and it was not just one shot....so I hope there is something less than premeditated murder that MiLady can convict him of (here in US lesser charges) and this spoiled over indulged childlike man needs to be in prison for what he has done. I personally think he is putting on a big show in the courtroom.

I really tend to think he shot and injured Reeva in temper then, with the warped logic of a truly selfish human being, killed her to stop her telling people about the injury. It haunts me that I think he had seconds where he had the choice to try and save her with the injuries she had, but decided to end her life instead.

I think the bloodcurdling screams were Reeva as she saw him making that decision, and knew she was about to die.

 

[zqtpie]

I just don't get why the number of dents on the door from the bat has any relevance to anything. Am I missing something? Does it even matter how many whacks went down...doesn't everyone agree that Reeva was executed by gunfire? Why is the bat so important?

 

[zwiebel]

SA batsman Gibbs recognized his sig on the bat from TV. That must have been a shock....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...s-cricket-bat-used-break-door-signed-him.html

 

[jassy writer]

Because of course the defense can find in one lunch hour what a man with 25 years of experience in forensics has missed...!

 

[zwiebel]

I just don't get why the number of dents on the door from the bat has any relevance to anything. Am I missing something? Does it even matter how many whacks went down...doesn't everyone agree that Reeva was executed by gunfire? Why is the bat so important?

Maybe because Roux has mixed it all up with the sound of gunfire, and when screams happened? The order of them is very important in showing if OP was aware he was shooting Reeva or not. The series of bangs - bang bang....bang bang etc people recall hearing then become crucial; Bat or gun/ while there was screaming or after? Reeva screaming or OP?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't think there is grounds for dismissing charges - a woman's been shot to death and OP admits doing it. It's just a debate over if he meant to kill her or not really.

The scream testimony is most important, imo. And OP's failure to summon emergency help and telling people 'everything is fine'.

During the breaks in today's proceedings I listened to various discussions on WhoopWhoop and a question was asked of learned legal bods about how important Roux's questions were. The concensus was that in the overall picture they were not of very great importance and will not determine guilt or innocence and that in most trials there would be mistakes on both sides. The arguments that we have yet to hear is what will determine OP's guilt or otherwise.

 

[zwiebel]

I hate to say it, but I think OP can and will scream like a woman in court. That's just my feeling because of his vomiting - he doesn't seem at all hesitant at being physical in public, so I think he'll do it.

Most cricketers could tell you it is possible for a man to scream in a high pitched voice, given certain circumstances.....(being delicate here).

 

[zwiebel]

During the breaks in today's proceedings I listened to various discussions on WhoopWhoop and a question was asked of learned legal bods about how important Roux's questions were. The concensus was that in the overall picture they were not of very great importance and will not determine guilt or innocence and that in most trials there would be mistakes on both sides. The arguments that we have yet to hear is what will determine OP's guilt or otherwise.

Blood spatter and ballistics?

 

[turaj]

I hate to say it, but I think OP can and will scream like a woman in court. That's just my feeling because of his vomiting - he doesn't seem at all hesitant at being physical in public, so I think he'll do it.

Most cricketers could tell you it is possible for a man to scream in a high pitched voice, given certain circumstances.....(being delicate here).

no doubt...he has been practicing for months.