Trial Discussion Thread #7 weekend thread

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I am very curious about that, too. I did not watch the trial today -- so I have some catching up to do. Why on earth was the metal panel bashed in? Why was his bedroom door damaged? Why was there blood in the bedroom (ie, on the watch case).

So many questions...

Mel

I thought the bath panel may have been bashed in from a backswing of the cricket bat as it was swung at the bathroom door.

I didn't think that part of the wood panel that came out was laying pretty near the bath too - so maybe it's possible that when the wood flew out, the corner hit that bath panel and made that particular, pointy looking dent?

But a caveat; I still don't understand how a panel bashed IN with a bat, managed to fly OUT into the bathroom. I would if it had been ripped out by hand, but I think Roux insists that is not the case, for some reason?

I believe the metal plates on those baths are lightweight and easily damaged by the way - or at least, they are in my neck of the woods. Not so easy to bring a whole line of tiles off though. It must have been hit with some force.
 
List of things that for me don't ring true from the start of Oscar's "story"

1) Reeva not turning a single light on on her way to the toilet.

2) Reeva opening the bathroom window at around 3 in the morning, why?

3) Oscar brings in fans and shuts doors and curtain's in the pitch black, was he planning on plugging them in in the pitch black?.

4) Oscar not doing what is the most instinctive thing in the world in this situation, telling his partner he has heard a noise and he is going to investigate it and telling her to call the police/security, and go downstairs to safety, oscar claims of protection are clearly nonsense.

5) What is better way of protecting your girlfriend calling security and getting out of the house?, or charge into the pitch black not knowing if you will be hurt/killed leaving your girlfriend totally unprotected


6) Oscar is to scared to tun the light's on??????, strange to want to stay in the dark, if an intruder wasn't moving and you were there's a very good chance they will see you first.

7) Oscar says "On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police".
This is where it get's really confusing, to scared to turn a light on but yet happy to bring complete attention to where he is???, why not calmly tell Reeva to call the police before he left the bedroom?
Note on this point, Oscar has recently added a new line to his story, He says" During the early hours of the morning I brought two fans in from the balcony,"
"I had shortly before spoken to Reeva who was in bed beside me.
The reason he has added the bolded part above IMO is because without it the screaming for Reeva to call the police part has no credibility if he thought she was asleep at that point.
Also if you screamed at someone in that close a proximity to you, is it credible to believe they wouldn't give you some kind of response

8) I cannot believe that anyone would open fire on that door so recklessly,
Obviously the first thing to do is say something, like who's there?, i know you are in there? if no reply i would say it would be perfectly reasonable to give a warning that if you open the door i will shoot, but surely in any case when you would feel the need to shoot you would fire one bullet and listen as you would clearly be able to hear if you have injured that person.

9) this is very odd, when he gets back to the bedroom he says "Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light".
To me this suggests Oscar is playing for time with his statement, he is trying to pad his story out a bit i.e if he goes into his bedroom and turns the light on as you would, he would notice Straight away that Reeva is not there, instead by saying "i was still to scared to turn the light on" and "Reeva was not responding", he seems to be buying himself a few more seconds.

10)That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet.

I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked.
Calling her name?, would he not have been desperately yelling/shouting her name rather than calling it?, maybe if he claimed to be yelling/shouting her name it would have given him a problem because no one else would have heard it(because it didn't happen).

I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
Strange this one, he is in his locked house and goes onto the balcony screaming for help, what good would that do?, all his time should have been spent getting the toilet door open.

I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open.

I think I must then have turned on the lights.
Suspicious of this part, feels very added on.

11) Probably the biggest question of all, put yourself in Oscar's place for a moment here, you have "accidentally" shout your partner through your toilet door, you smash down the door, your partner was "slumped over but still alive", what is the first thing you do?, well if your Oscar pistorius you ring the estate manager?????????????????, and not an ambulance/netcare, truly bizarre.
 
Also, this isn't a "who dunnit?". We all know OP DID!!!!! This is a "Why did he do it?" IMO, and MOO, this is a classic case of femicide.
 
Oh. Cricketer in my house reckons my backswing theory is wrong. It wouldn't or shouldn't have the force to make a dent in the panel.

Guess I'm back to square one and I'm never going to be chosen for a Test Match team....
 
I am very curious about that, too. I did not watch the trial today -- so I have some catching up to do. Why on earth was the metal panel bashed in? Why was his bedroom door damaged? Why was there blood in the bedroom (ie, on the watch case).

So many questions...

Mel

There are indeed. I'm not too sure which way the prosecution will go regarding the dented bath panel. It may not help with regard to evidence, as the damage cannot be attributed to that specific day, however by pursuing the line of questioning it may force OP to disclose how it happened. OP would then probably suggest it happened on a previous occasion, which would not really help his case, as witnesses have already suggested he has a short fuse.
 
Without wishing to be uncharitable, I'm getting a bit sick of Oscar Pistorius's sick bucket. The first time it was called into service by the athlete's defence team this week, the green plastic receptacle was undoubtedly something of a novelty. Or at the very least, a pointed revival of an ancient system of legal judgement.

In the Old Testament, vomiting was a sign of innocence in criminal disputes. For instance, priests administered poison to women suspected of cheating. If they absorbed it and miscarried, they were guilty. If they vomited it, they were innocent.

www.theguardian.com/world/southafrica

Interesting article
 
My point isn't that people don't get up in the middle of the night. They do.

I was trying to illustrate how this particular situation would have had to unfold and how utterly brief the time frame was.

This is different than your boyfriend not coming to bed yet for the night. OP claimed that Reeva was just in bed next to him when he got up. So I'm just calculating the mere seconds that this would have had to happen.

What I'm saying is that the idea that she got up to use the bathroom in the precise period of time he claims to be moving the fan wouldn't be coincidence, she would have woken because she heard his movements and decided to use the bathroom.
 
Without wishing to be uncharitable, I'm getting a bit sick of Oscar Pistorius's sick bucket. The first time it was called into service by the athlete's defence team this week, the green plastic receptacle was undoubtedly something of a novelty. Or at the very least, a pointed revival of an ancient system of legal judgement.

In the Old Testament, vomiting was a sign of innocence in criminal disputes. For instance, priests administered poison to women suspected of cheating. If they absorbed it and miscarried, they were guilty. If they vomited it, they were innocent.

www.theguardian.com/world/southafrica

Interesting article

Lol, it is really over the top.

I don't know what to make of all his retching. I don't think it's fake but whether it is out of shock, horror, guilt or fear I've no idea.
 
You know, I think defence neglected to ask Sam T if OP usually locked the bedroom door when she stayed with him. That's a bit of an oversight, if so.

Exactly and also questions whether the toilet door had a key inside with a green thing on it ..(That green thing is very distinguishing imo i certanily would remember such a thing ) It could be a spare one..whether the two fans sit in the balcony at nights or OP ever took them inside at nights whether the bedroom door had a hole (supposed an airgun hole) on it...
 
Lol, it is really over the top.

I don't know what to make of all his retching. I don't think it's fake but whether it is out of shock, horror, guilt or fear I've no idea.

There is also a picture in the news of him lying down on the bench in the magistrates court administering eye drops to his eyes. This guy certainly seems to attention seek. Any normal person would either have administered them before leaving for court, in the car, or gone to the cloakroom to do so but IN COURT!

http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/c...-bloody-prosthetics-5316694.php#photo-6019183
 

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What I'm saying is that the idea that she got up to use the bathroom in the precise period of time he claims to be moving the fan wouldn't be coincidence, she would have woken because she heard his movements and decided to use the bathroom.

No one's casting doubt on that.
The point was that (according to his version of events) there was only a few seconds in which she could have done this without his being aware.

Actually, seeing the small spaces involved, I'm not convinced that he wouldn't be aware of her getting up anyway. I had imagined that the bed was quite a bit further from the window than it was.
 
Exactly and also questions whether the toilet door had a key inside with a green thing on it ..(That green thing is very distinguishing imo i certanily would remember such a thing ) It could be a spare one..whether the two fans sit in the balcony at nights or OP ever took them inside at nights whether the bedroom door had a hole (supposed an airgun hole) on it...

If Roux can call back a witness, why couldn't Nel?
 
I am half expecting Roux to produce a psychological analysis to say that he has emotional problems - goes to whether he can be judged as "normal" in the sense that would a normal person have committed this crime.
 
The colonel insists he was the first officer to arrive at Pistorius' home, yet Roux read a statement detailing how another officer had arrived on the scene before him and followed the blood trail before providing a perfect description of the bathroom where Steenkamp was shot

"Amazing," van Rensburg said as he listened to Roux, laughing disbelievingly. "I say, it's amazing, because he was not there."

The colonel speculated that the statements might have been made on hearsay, "because he [the officer in question] was not in the bathroom. He was not on the first floor at all."

Botha's statement, on the other hand, suggests he arrived much later, after van Rensburg had done an initial inspection of the scene, and only when Pistorius was being photographed in his garage.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/oscar-...mbshell-blows-up-in-their-face-192638835.html

I tend to believe Van, don't you? So why would Botha lie? Did he want his minutes of fame by claiming he arrived first? I guess Van could not ask Botha to see his statement first before he handed it in. But, as I've said before what motive did Botha have if he was lying?

I have often thought that Botha was playing both sides by pretending to believe in OP's guilt but perhaps was got at by someone/bribed to act like a bumbling policeman just to get OP out on bail. This does not makes sense to me otherwise. Why would Botha lie about being there first and say he went up to the bathroom alone without covers on his feet? The DT already knew this at the Bail Hearing.

As Van said, "Amazing"!

It seems that Van's inferiors (I hate that word) expected to get away with things so there was no discipline and no fear of losing their jobs if found out.
 
It seems that Van's inferiors (I hate that word) expected to get away with things so there was no discipline and no fear of losing their jobs if found out.

Try "subordinates" :)
 
I am half expecting Roux to produce a psychological analysis to say that he has emotional problems - goes to whether he can be judged as "normal" in the sense that would a normal person have committed this crime.

The wife of the surgeon who cut off OP's legs would be only too willing to support that theory. But would OP want to be put n the psychiatric ward of a prison hospital?

Top detective: Vinesh Moonoo

The shortcomings of the police investigation carried out in the immediate aftermath of the 14 February shooting were brutally exposed by Roux at the pre-trial hearings. But Hilton Botha’s replacement, detective Vinesh Moonoo, has a reputation as the “top gumshoe” in the South African police force. He has built a case using psychologists as well as forensic, ballistics and technology experts. The 53-year-old has a blemish-free reputation and has mostly succeeded in staying off the media radar. In one rare interview he admitted that he knew when he was a schoolboy that he wanted to become a police officer. He has since become the “top detective in the SA Police Service” according to the force’s commissioner Riah Phiyega.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news...torius-murder-case-story-so-far#ixzz2w2X0fNAj

I would like to hear from Vinesh Minoo. I assume he will be a witness.
 
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