Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Trooper]

Has anyone yet questioned the wisdom of OP's carrying the badly wounded Reeva downstairs before she could receive any medical or paramedical attention?

I thought that a principal rule of first aid is for non-medics to only move a victim if the victim is in immediate danger from being in that particular location/position. If you don't know what you're doing, you can do a lot more damage by shifting the victim.

I have this awful image in my mind of Reeva being carried down the stairs with her arm dangling by a thread, and her head ........??

Doctors and paramedics are quite capable of going upstairs.

The only reason I can see for OP shifting Reeva is to contaminate the crime scene.

Unless I hear Netcare say they told him to do this, I will never believe it. If they said it, it was because he didn't describe the injuries he is looking at as he phones.. . I've used Netcare in Capetown and when I rang they never entertained the idea of me driving the injured party to a hospital.. likely to cause another accident trying to drive and attend an injured person at the same time..

Oscar lives in a city.. its the National Capiltol of SA.. he isn't living somewhere up in the Karoo, or , in my country, outback in the bush.. even outback in the bush the suggestion would be even less likely to be made..

 

[Val1]

Maybe, but there would be a record of the call, and if Reeva "went missing" it would be a red flag. Don't think OP was thinking clearly at that point. Panic mode.

MOO.

Perhaps, though I'd rather wait and see if the defense proves that OP did call and talk to someone, as well as the recording of the call. That will be interesting, since they're the ones that deliberately withheld evidence for almost two weeks, about a week longer than most places keep the actual voice recordings...

 

[Whiteorchids]

Unless I hear Netcare say they told him to do this, I will never believe it. If they said it, it was because he didn't describe the injuries he is looking at as he phones.. . I've used Netcare in Capetown and when I rang they never entertained the idea of me driving the injured party to a hospital.. likely to cause another accident trying to drive and attend an injured person at the same time..

Oscar lives in a city.. its the National Capiltol of SA.. he isn't living somewhere up in the Karoo, or , in my country, outback in the bush.. even outback in the bush the suggestion would be even less likely to be made..

I could just visualize the chaos that morning with all the managers, friends, people who live off of OPs big bucks running around that house like chickens with their heads cutoff making calls trying to figure out what to do with poor Reeva and come up with an accident scenario as to not ruin OPs fame and reputation while trying to hide what really happened. This reminds me of the OJ and Robert Blake case here in Cali.

 

[Trooper]

Even Johan Standar had enough brains to reject Oscars suggestion of driving Reeva to a hospital.. he demurred against doing it. ( this was before Stipps arrival, and at that point Standar hadn't rung an ambulance either, as Oscar claims he instructed him to do. It was Stipps demand that somebody do so that got one rung ( Baba rang one ) )

( Van Rensburg testimony as to what Clarice Standar told him on arrival. )


Clarice was such a busy busy little bee that morning!

 

[Val1]

Has anyone yet questioned the wisdom of OP's carrying the badly wounded Reeva downstairs before she could receive any medical or paramedical attention?

I thought that a principal rule of first aid is for non-medics to only move a victim if the victim is in immediate danger from being in that particular location/position. If you don't know what you're doing, you can do a lot more damage by shifting the victim.

I have this awful image in my mind of Reeva being carried down the stairs with her arm dangling by a thread, and her head ........??

Doctors and paramedics are quite capable of going upstairs.

The only reason I can see for OP shifting Reeva is to contaminate the crime scene.

Or bag and tie her and whisk her away while friends clean up after you... darn nosy neighbours though...

 

[Trooper]

While Oscar hasn't had experience in a war zone, no matter how much of a warrior he thinks he may be, he must have had experience seeing people injured on the running track. .. people speared with javelins, people hit on the head with a discus, people crashing into the hurdles, people impaling themselves on their high jump poles, people breaking legs in the long jump.... happens all the time..

do they get pulled and dragged about and carried off by a mate?? hell no they don't.

 

[Trooper]

he goes to all this flimflam in regard to his security.. which is based on the fear of injury or death......it's borderline pathological fear... but nowhere in his house is a first aid kit..

I would have thought he would have an ambulance quality crash bag right near the bottom of the stairs in case he himself fell down them, a hospital standard trunk with a big red cross blanket across it right in the kitchen.. just in case he set himself on fire while making toast....

when the SHTF, he has to scrabble around in his pantry and kitchen and come up with some plastic bags??

puuuuuleeeease....

 

[nastasya]

One of the biggest lies....

He claims he heard the bathroom door opening and somebody coming out. That's why he shot. He says he heard "wood move."

But the door was locked. It wasn't opening.

 

[Trooper]

One of the biggest lies....

He claims he heard the bathroom door opening and somebody coming out. That's why he shot. He says he heard "wood move."

But the door was locked. It wasn't opening.

*ahem*..he says the door was locked... :waitasec:

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Unless I hear Netcare say they told him to do this, I will never believe it. If they said it, it was because he didn't describe the injuries he is looking at as he phones.. . I've used Netcare in Capetown and when I rang they never entertained the idea of me driving the injured party to a hospital.. likely to cause another accident trying to drive and attend an injured person at the same time..

Oscar lives in a city.. its the National Capiltol of SA.. he isn't living somewhere up in the Karoo, or , in my country, outback in the bush.. even outback in the bush the suggestion would be even less likely to be made..

Surely Netcare records all calls. Every other emergency service seems to. Why would anyone with any sense whatsoever think that a gunshot victim is better off in a domestic car than they would be in a well-equipped ambulance with its many life saving devices?

A car would only be preferable if you didn't want the victim to survive.

 

[Trooper]

Surely Netcare records all calls. Every other emergency service seems to. Why would anyone with any sense whatsoever think that a gunshot victim is better off in a domestic car than they would be in a well-equipped ambulance with its many life saving devices?

A car would only be preferable if you didn't want the victim to survive.

and with the shooter at the wheel, no less.. and still armed, naturally, as Oscar has his gun on him at all times.. safety off, loaded and cocked, ready to fire..

 

[Apollo]

One of the biggest lies....

He claims he heard the bathroom door opening and somebody coming out. That's why he shot. He says he heard "wood move."

But the door was locked. It wasn't opening.

My personal favorite is that he heard the 'intruders' because they slammed the toilet door. Really? Intruders slam doors when they break into your home? Why not just break down the front door if they were going to be that noisy, why bother climbing though a window and then slamming a door to alert the residents. Ridiculous.

 

[Linda7NJ]

My personal favorite is that he heard the 'intruders' because they slammed the toilet door. Really? Intruders slam doors when they break into your home? Why not just break down the front door if they were going to be that noisy, why bother climbing though a window and then slamming a door to alert the residents. Ridiculous.

May as well knock on the door




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[Linda7NJ]

Surely Netcare records all calls. Every other emergency service seems to. Why would anyone with any sense whatsoever think that a gunshot victim is better off in a domestic car than they would be in a well-equipped ambulance with its many life saving devices?



A car would only be preferable if you didn't want the victim to survive.

IMO he would have loved nothing better than to hide the fact it ever happened.
I think that was the mode he was in when he moved her, cover-up mode. But it wasn't possible.

That explains why he said, everything is fine in that call and why he didn't call for help straight away.




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[molly333]

I have been very puzzled why Oscar just threw that comment about Dr Stipp into his testimony.. it came out of the blue, and seemed to have no possible rhyme or reason for it.. an unguarded moment?? a long held conviction? a figure of speech?? cranky with Dr Stipp for testifying re womanly screaming?? a slur on radiologists in general? offended because Dr Stipp was an uninvited 'guest'? an attempt to place the blame on Dr Stipp for Reevas death due to medical malpractice??

I just don't know.

Because the doctor declared Reeva dead, no pulse, no respiration, cloudy eyes, but, worse than that, when he described her jaw clenched on OP's fingers, he was describing rigor mortis. It takes a little bit of time for that, she had been dead for a while. What time was it when the doctor came on the scene?

 

[molly333]

he goes to all this flimflam in regard to his security.. which is based on the fear of injury or death......it's borderline pathological fear... but nowhere in his house is a first aid kit..

I would have thought he would have an ambulance quality crash bag right near the bottom of the stairs in case he himself fell down them, a hospital standard trunk with a big red cross blanket across it right in the kitchen.. just in case he set himself on fire while making toast....

when the SHTF, he has to scrabble around in his pantry and kitchen and come up with some plastic bags??

puuuuuleeeease....

Towels make sense, but plastic bags make no sense to me. Someone on here said they did make sense, but didn't say how.

 

[james83]

In his Blatent attempt to avoid justice, Oscar has been too greedy and made a clear attempt to get away with this with no jail time, he has simply made a huge error with the changes in his story, in his original affidavit the story he was trying to tell was very clear, he heard a noise, felt panic and terror, ran to the bathroom heard a noise in the toilet and fired shots, it was all done at great speed.
The new version is much more drawn out and implies he had much more thinking time and totally rubbish's the panic and terror of the original version, all of sudden he is calm enough to "whisper at Reeva", he is "slowly scuffling" down the hallway with his arm on the wall for balance, he even leans back against the bathroom wall before firing.

 

[molly333]

So Dr Stippe could indeed have completely ruined a plan to dispose of Reeva's body.

I'm guessing the rope and bin bag stuff was going on while Dr Stippe was there because if it wasn't then it just gets too bizarre.

Is the doctor the only one who called security to the scene?

If he hadn't called security, no one would have shown up?

 

[molly333]

Even Johan Standar had enough brains to reject Oscars suggestion of driving Reeva to a hospital.. he demurred against doing it. ( this was before Stipps arrival, and at that point Standar hadn't rung an ambulance either, as Oscar claims he instructed him to do. It was Stipps demand that somebody do so that got one rung ( Baba rang one ) )

( Van Rensburg testimony as to what Clarice Standar told him on arrival. )


Clarice was such a busy busy little bee that morning!

Are you thinking these two would have helped Oscar dispose of her body?

Was Oscar the one who called them to the scene? To do what?

Why isn't he calling police, security, and ambulance?

 

[Freya1977]

Towels make sense, but plastic bags make no sense to me. Someone on here said they did make sense, but didn't say how.

A large plastic bag could be used as a tourniquet to stop bleeding if tied tightly around an injured limb

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