TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL

[Boxer]

@Ruminations the real issue is the State of Idaho, there should be a law, unattended death, autopsy. That law is in place in Utah. It takes the burden off of an elected official. And moves it to the clinical level, as it should be. And I would hope, that someone initiates this, to call it, "Tammy's Law".

There is a procedure, they did not follow it.
In Idaho If the elected coroner comes across a death that does not have an obvious cause, falling, car wreck etc. the coroner refers the case to sheriff who bumps it to a md coroner.

Basically she and the deputy bought Chad's story that Tammy had been ill and fragile, so they did not perceive it was an unexplained death.

 

[Kemug]

There is a procedure, they did not follow it.
In Idaho If the elected coroner comes across a death that does not have an obvious cause, falling, car wreck etc. the coroner refers the case to sheriff who bumps it to a md coroner.

Basically she and the deputy bought Chad's story that Tammy had been ill and fragile, so they did not perceive it was an unexplained death.

It seems to me that this is what Chad & Co must have expected to happen, I wonder why? Did Chad know the coroner personally? Or was he aware that she probably wouldn't probe too deeply? We should also remember that Tammy's asphyxiation death was Plan B, so they hadn't been pushing Tammy's supposed ill-health for very long. They should never have got away with it at all, let alone for months.

 

[indicolite22]

It seems to me that this is what Chad & Co must have expected to happen, I wonder why? Did Chad know the coroner personally? Or was he aware that she probably wouldn't probe too deeply? We should also remember that Tammy's asphyxiation death was Plan B, so they hadn't been pushing Tammy's supposed ill-health for very long. They should never have got away with it at all, let alone for months.

To me the most perplexing thing is Chad's children going along with Chad's story, especially his oldest daughter. She confirmed that Tammy hadn't been feeling well. Perhaps she just didn't like the idea of her mother being autopsied and would never consider her being murdered, let alone by Chad. He also reassured his children with his visionary insight that Tammy was happy on the other side. His children were being gaslit their entire lives.

 

[Ruminations]

I don't expect Chad to take the stand. Of course his attorney will claim that the prosecution failed to prove Chad's involvement in the murders. We know that he declared the victims zombies and reported to Lori on their "death percentage". He predicted Tammy would die young, even talking about her dying in a car accident. But actively making the deaths happen is a step further. Googling wind direction a day before Tylee was killed and burned on the bonfire in his backyard is just one detail that points to his active involvement. Alex's short stay in his backyard in JJ's case also points to a pre-dug grave.

Agree with all of the above.

However, the details that wouldn't stand on their own as murder, such as reporting on dark spirits and death percentages, make alternative explanations for his murderous actions seem absurd, not "reasonable doubt." So they do have a crime proving role.

I guess that the defense is going to say the defendant was seduced by a murderer, and he egged on her fantasies to get the sex he wanted. But among other weaknesses in that defense, their relationship is captured in text messages. He was the one calling all the spiritual shots, and willing to put her in a position to lose spirit world protection if she didn't comply with him. (A new twist on a protection racquet.) It worked precisely because the defendant knew she believed it. He can't pick and choose what he really believed she believed and what he didn't believe she believed, KWIM?

To me, I agree the defendant may have gotten caught up playing fantasy games, but mostly, he knew on some level he was just promoting his books and himself with BS like, it wasn't really fiction, it was visions! But don't see how he can argue that he didn't know it was real to Lori when she is taking steps like ordering the wedding clothes and rings before the victim actually died to make the wedding possible! (And AFAIK, it hasn't come out how and when the trip- lodging, ceremony, flights- was booked; the defendant did mention the minister's name in some lying context. Maybe the defendant reserved the actual ceremony. Just speculation. We shall see.)

IMO, it does appear to be the defense strat to say it was all a game to the defendant to get sex. But it will not be believable when he was aware of Lori's actions planning on the death of the victims, and he took his own actions planning on the death of the victims. We might learn new actions, but we know of a prepared grave, hanging out with Alex, checking the weather with special attention to wind direction, etc.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Nothing is more chilling than that Hawaii video of them refusing to speak about where the kids were.

 

[indicolite22]

Nothing is more chilling than that Hawaii video of them refusing to speak about where the kids were.

They were selling "the evil grandmother who wants custody" story at the time. At least some people believed them.

 

[Kemug]

To me the most perplexing thing is Chad's children going along with Chad's story, especially his oldest daughter. She confirmed that Tammy hadn't been feeling well. Perhaps she just didn't like the idea of her mother being autopsied and would never consider her being murdered, let alone by Chad. He also reassured his children with his visionary insight that Tammy was happy on the other side. His children were being gaslit their entire lives.

We don't actually know if Tammy ever said anything about not feeling well, it may have all come from lying Chad.

 

[Ruminations]

To me the most perplexing thing is Chad's children going along with Chad's story, especially his oldest daughter. She confirmed that Tammy hadn't been feeling well. Perhaps she just didn't like the idea of her mother being autopsied and would never consider her being murdered, let alone by Chad. He also reassured his children with his visionary insight that Tammy was happy on the other side. His children were being gaslit their entire lives.

I can't imagine the pain and complexity of their situation.

Every decision they make seems like some level of something difficult- disloyalty to their cherished mother. Disloyalty to their revered father. Helping in the defense of horrific homocides. Failing to help save their father's life.

From the outside, the defendant seems like a bumbling charlatan. To them, he was the patriarch who seemed far more special than the average patriarch, with his thin veil. It's a lot to grasp, that your foundation and origin is perceived differently by a literal international community of strangers.

It makes some sense to me to prioritize the surviving parent, especially when his life is in danger.

I can't imagine the pain they live with daily, all while just working and raising children and paying bills like most young adults. But they don't have any grandparent support, financial or physical. And reaching out (at least such that the defendant would find out) to relatives on their mothers side could create problems with their surviving parent.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

We don't actually know if Tammy ever said anything about not feeling well, it may have all come from lying Chad.

Emma also contradicted the story in private, at least that is how I understood the testimony at Lori's trial. Emma was in clogging class or something with her mother. I thought she privately had problems with the illness narrative.

IMO

 

[indicolite22]

We don't actually know if Tammy ever said anything about not feeling well, it may have all come from lying Chad.

Emma said that one of the signs was that Tammy started going to bed early. Emma lived across the street at the time.

 

[Kemug]

Emma said that one of the signs was that Tammy started going to bed early. Emma lived across the street at the time.

Even if this is true, she may have been going early to get away from Chad. I know I would.

 

[indicolite22]

Emma also contradicted the story in private, at least that is how I understood the testimony at Lori's trial. Emma was in clogging class or something with her mother. I thought she privately had problems with the illness narrative.

IMO

She wrote in a reddit post about grieving that her mother's death was a textbook heart attack.
I'm not sure about the timeline of the clogging class.

 

[indicolite22]

I can't imagine the pain and complexity of their situation.

Every decision they make seems like some level of something difficult- disloyalty to their cherished mother. Disloyalty to their revered father. Helping in the defense of horrific homocides. Failing to help save their father's life.

From the outside, the defendant seems like a bumbling charlatan. To them, he was the patriarch who seemed far more special than the average patriarch, with his thin veil. It's a lot to grasp, that your foundation and origin is perceived differently by a literal international community of strangers.

It makes some sense to me to prioritize the surviving parent, especially when his life is in danger.

I can't imagine the pain they live with daily, all while just working and raising children and paying bills like most young adults. But they don't have any grandparent support, financial or physical. And reaching out (at least such that the defendant would find out) to relatives on their mothers side could create problems with their surviving parent.

MOO

Aren't Chad's parents supporting their grandchildren?

 

[indicolite22]

Agree with all of the above.

However, the details that wouldn't stand on their own as murder, such as reporting on dark spirits and death percentages, make alternative explanations for his murderous actions seem absurd, not "reasonable doubt." So they do have a crime proving role.

I guess that the defense is going to say the defendant was seduced by a murderer, and he egged on her fantasies to get the sex he wanted. But among other weaknesses in that defense, their relationship is captured in text messages. He was the one calling all the spiritual shots, and willing to put her in a position to lose spirit world protection if she didn't comply with him. (A new twist on a protection racquet.) It worked precisely because the defendant knew she believed it. He can't pick and choose what he really believed she believed and what he didn't believe she believed, KWIM?

To me, I agree the defendant may have gotten caught up playing fantasy games, but mostly, he knew on some level he was just promoting his books and himself with BS like, it wasn't really fiction, it was visions! But don't see how he can argue that he didn't know it was real to Lori when she is taking steps like ordering the wedding clothes and rings before the victim actually died to make the wedding possible! (And AFAIK, it hasn't come out how and when the trip- lodging, ceremony, flights- was booked; the defendant did mention the minister's name in some lying context. Maybe the defendant reserved the actual ceremony. Just speculation. We shall see.)

IMO, it does appear to be the defense strat to say it was all a game to the defendant to get sex. But it will not be believable when he was aware of Lori's actions planning on the death of the victims, and he took his own actions planning on the death of the victims. We might learn new actions, but we know of a prepared grave, hanging out with Alex, checking the weather with special attention to wind direction, etc.

MOO

Chad's excuse could be that Lori and Alex took his teachings too literally, but he didn't. He could admit to manipulating their beliefs to suit his agenda (keeping Lori close and dependent of him) but would not admit to ordering them to kill. Luckily there's evidence that Chad did more than teach weird stuff to gullible followers.
I'd like to see specific indications that he was in on the shooting attempt at Tammy. He wasn't charged in Brandon's case, which could be treated similarly. Apparently carrying the jeep's tire and car seat into the Rexburg storage (after learning that the attempt on BB in Arizona has failed) wasn't enough.

 

[mrjitty]

They were selling "the evil grandmother who wants custody" story at the time. At least some people believed them.

yeah. hiding the kids from big government and all that.

 

[indicolite22]

Chad's text to Tammy about burying a raccoon at the pet cemetery on the day Tylee was buried is one of the crucial pieces of evidence against him. The raccoon was never found. At Chad's preliminary hearing JP argued that there were multiple pet cemeteries on Chad's property (which Chad's children repeated in an interview). That seems unlikely for several reasons: 1) Chad texted "our pet cemetery", implying that Tammy knew which, 2) Tammy's sister independently pointed to the cemetery location on the map, 3) dead pets were found where Tylee was buried, 4) a small dog statue was found in the same spot, labeling the cemetery, 5) the family had only been living in Rexburg for four years - there would be no need for multiple cemeteries. To me this indicates that Chad's children might have been trying to cover for Chad. I wonder if JP will use the same excuse at this trial.

 

[Ruminations]

Aren't Chad's parents supporting their grandchildren?

Probably, but there's no information with which I'm aware. No reason not to stay private about such things. IMO there are Tammy-side relatives that support them. But they find the support that's welcome now is giving them space. On HTC their great aunt mentioned that they seem to need privacy at this time- she seemed very open to offering them just that, or that and more- whatever is best for them.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Chad's text to Tammy about burying a raccoon at the pet cemetery on the day Tylee was buried is one of the crucial pieces of evidence against him. The raccoon was never found. At Chad's preliminary hearing JP argued that there were multiple pet cemeteries on Chad's property (which Chad's children repeated in an interview). That seems unlikely for several reasons: 1) Chad texted "our pet cemetery", implying that Tammy knew which, 2) Tammy's sister independently pointed to the cemetery location on the map, 3) dead pets were found where Tylee was buried, 4) a small dog statue was found in the same spot, labeling the cemetery, 5) the family had only been living in Rexburg for four years - there would be no need for multiple cemeteries. To me this indicates that Chad's children might have been trying to cover for Chad. I wonder if JP will use the same excuse at this trial.

And a raccoon is a pest, not a pet. The remains in the pet cemetery were named. Not random creatures found dead.

A healthy raccoon comes out at night, not by day.

Wasn't there another raccoon story that seemed true- raccoon in a tree (so it either got stuck there, lasting to day, or it was sick and paranoid and climbed the tree in the day)? Was that raccoon buried or tossed in woods?

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

And a raccoon is a pest, not a pet. The remains in the pet cemetery were named. Not random creatures found dead.

A healthy raccoon comes out at night, not by day.

Wasn't there another raccoon story that seemed true- raccoon in a tree (so it either got stuck there, lasting to day, or it was sick and paranoid and climbed the tree in the day)? Was that raccoon buried or tossed in woods?

MOO

The bottom line is, there was no raccoon at the pet cemetery. There is no logical explanation for Chad's text apart from him lying to try to explain evidence of a bonfire and a fresh grave in their yard.

 

[887sMtreme]

Agree with all of the above.

However, the details that wouldn't stand on their own as murder, such as reporting on dark spirits and death percentages, make alternative explanations for his murderous actions seem absurd, not "reasonable doubt." So they do have a crime proving role.

I guess that the defense is going to say the defendant was seduced by a murderer, and he egged on her fantasies to get the sex he wanted. But among other weaknesses in that defense, their relationship is captured in text messages. He was the one calling all the spiritual shots, and willing to put her in a position to lose spirit world protection if she didn't comply with him. (A new twist on a protection racquet.) It worked precisely because the defendant knew she believed it. He can't pick and choose what he really believed she believed and what he didn't believe she believed, KWIM?

To me, I agree the defendant may have gotten caught up playing fantasy games, but mostly, he knew on some level he was just promoting his books and himself with BS like, it wasn't really fiction, it was visions! But don't see how he can argue that he didn't know it was real to Lori when she is taking steps like ordering the wedding clothes and rings before the victim actually died to make the wedding possible! (And AFAIK, it hasn't come out how and when the trip- lodging, ceremony, flights- was booked; the defendant did mention the minister's name in some lying context. Maybe the defendant reserved the actual ceremony. Just speculation. We shall see.)

IMO, it does appear to be the defense strat to say it was all a game to the defendant to get sex. But it will not be believable when he was aware of Lori's actions planning on the death of the victims, and he took his own actions planning on the death of the victims. We might learn new actions, but we know of a prepared grave, hanging out with Alex, checking the weather with special attention to wind direction, etc.

MOO

It’s like an insanity defense (not a thing in Idaho) by another name.