Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

[taagean]

I hope the jury is thinking the same as we are.

 

[crazyladi]

i hope the jury is thinking the same as we are.

me tooo!!!!

 

[Ardy]

From what I am reading, Derstine is referencing a small piece of evidence the jury has already heard previously, with almost every sentence.

He is using established evidence to question the credibility of TLM.

Examples

TLM testified she was heavily using drugs that day, and her memory of some of the events is foggy...........flashbacks etc.

TLM did appear cheerful and helpful in the first LE interview.

MR's character is not in question. He didn't testify for the Crown.

After Derstine is finished and the Crown begins...........they are going to have to somehow try to restore some credibility to TLM and her testimony, because Derstine is right..........without her testimony the Crown doesn't have enough for the jury to convict.

JMO...............

 

[Sailor Bug]

Just some of Rafferty's LIES
-his mom lives with him (he told TLM)
-he takes care of his mom
-TLM NOT his girlfriend (he laughed to LE about that possibility)
-he buys oxy for his sick mother
-told LE on audio he worked under table -backtracked when they wanted to know where
-told LE he didn't know anyone in Woodstock
-inferred he was drug sober - but CM sure wasn't (audio to LE)
-never been to London with gf only his mother
-acted like he didn't know TS name to LE on audio
-told LE didn't know gf's last names
-told one woman he'd just bought his mother a house
-he had colon cancer
-was in a car accident
-lost a stepson (who allegedly had just died two weeks before Tori)
-had a tough childhood??
-hinted at affluence
-profligate womanizer (had them feel they were the only one)
-Rafferty was a deeply shocked witness to a disturbing crime
-said he was out looking for Tori "He said he was searching around the train tracks."
-horrified bystander
-Rafferty was on a three-person team that did work at the Riverstown Waste Facility, five kilometres from where the young girl's body was found.
-said: he was not guilty
-He was obsessed with the Tori Stafford disappearance, she said, "was constantly checking the news for it," and once told her "he knew all the inside information" —
-that Tori's mother had only recently got the little girl back in her care that the kidnapping "was all about drugs."
-said: TLM driving force behind Tori Stafford's kidnapping...BIG Rafferty lie here
- "the girl was in the car for a drug debt"
-said: that McClintic "offered" Tori "to him sexually...and he refused
-said:she ordered him away from the car and then killed her.
-lied about what happened to the back seat of his car---> "spring pickup"
- chat about "abducting kids It was he who raised the topic, she said. "He said how people take kids, abduct them, and they (the kids) grow up thinking they're (the kidnappers) like their real parents,"
-accused LE of spitting on TLM and depriving her of sleep

"jobs" Rafferty said he had
what did he actually did do as a living??
-Rafferty's real job: was living off the avails of prostitution
Mr. Rafferty essentially pimped out one girlfriend and proceeded to drain her of close to $17,000

-He got one credit in his grade nine year at that school. No information of any other credits at any other high schools has been found
-Cruikshank employed Rafferty from 2003 to 2005 as landscaper and snow shoveling. Rafferty worked with a team, licence suspended at time


-Contractor
-Landscaper
-worked a better beef in Guelph (slaughterhouse)
-Dance Instuctor
-was said to be in college working towards a Veterinary Assistant
-Caretaker (for his Mother) & TLM's Mother
-Possible drug traffic
-As MR stated in the LE interview, he also worked at Glen Abbey.
-And I believe he was a chef, trained at George Brown.
-working under the table
-Dance Instructor
-Had his own Contracting Business
-Snow Plower
-HR-hiring person for construction sites
-worked @ Juvenile Detention Centre(London on Oxford St)
-Teacher Dance Class
-Ballroom Dance Teacher
-working in the home renovation business

 

[~n/t~]

1:09
Comment From Adam
I'm Canadian...but working/living in US - does that count?
11:08
Comment From Sheena
My inlaws are following from Philadelphia
11:08
Comment From PaaMul
watching from Playa del Carmen, Quintana Roo, Mexico....
11:08
Comment From Mary
Following from Buffalo
11:07
Comment From Scott
Following from Virginia.
11:07
Mike Knoll: @Tiff - maybe they'll speak up here? any americans?
11:06
Comment From @Tiff
Can you tell if you have American followers on this feed?
11:05
Mike Knoll: @alison - 5,846 right now.
11:04
Comment From Alison
How many are following your coverage online this morning?

 

[Kamille]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Derstine on McClintic: “She is willfully, carefully and with real skill attempted and often succeeded in misleading police officers…”


Yeah she misled them right to Victoria's body and a whole carpload of circumstantial evidence against his client.

MOO

 

[Dmman]

I hope the jury is thinking the same as we are.

Remember, they've heard so much more than us. And all the evidence. Very up close & personal information. They are the absolute co-stars of this trial...right along with Victoria Stafford. They are her voice. A judge for her!

I pray they make the RIGHT decision. Because hold onto your hats, there's going to be some bombshells revealed once e jury is sequestered!!! JMO

 

[Ardy]

Mistake on his part for mentioning that she was only remorseful because it was a child. JMO

She said she didnt wake up knowing she was going to kill a child and she said she was remorseful because it was a child. She had no intention of killing TS, she was provoked and manipulated and lost it. But I guess she would have done that by herself anyways right? ya right

TLM admitted to that statement when questioned by Derstine about her conversation with her godmother.

She said she would murder again, but only regretting the young age of TS.

Powerful evidence to prove TLM has no remorse.

JMO.

 

[crazyladi]

From what I am reading, Derstine is referencing a small piece of evidence the jury has already heard previously, with almost every sentence.

He is using established evidence to question the credibility of TLM.

Examples

TLM testified she was heavily using drugs that day, and her memory of some of the events is foggy...........flashbacks etc.

TLM did appear cheerful and helpful in the first LE interview.

MR's character is not in question. He didn't testify for the Crown.

After Derstine is finished and the Crown begins...........they are going to have to somehow try to restore some credibility to TLM and her testimony, because Derstine is right..........without her testimony the Crown doesn't have enough for the jury to convict.

JMO...............

How is his character not in question? He was there when the murder happened and carried on as if it hadnt, went to see her in jail like it was nothing, lied to the police about how well he knew her, told people she was counselling her in the detention centre.... um I can go on but I know I dont need to.

She confessed to the murder and if this is all he has this is bad way of going about his defence. In fact its pathetic.

Well I guess its a good thing they are going to use her testimony as evidence.

They both lied, he chose to be a coward and the jury will see this.

 

[Alison]

From what I am reading, Derstine is referencing a small piece of evidence the jury has already heard previously, with almost every sentence.

He is using established evidence to question the credibility of TLM.

Examples

TLM testified she was heavily using drugs that day, and her memory of some of the events is foggy...........flashbacks etc.

TLM did appear cheerful and helpful in the first LE interview.

MR's character is not in question. He didn't testify for the Crown.

After Derstine is finished and the Crown begins...........they are going to have to somehow try to restore some credibility to TLM and her testimony, because Derstine is right..........without her testimony the Crown doesn't have enough for the jury to convict.

JMO...............

I believe that TLM's credibility is established since there is coroborating evidence (even if circumstantial) to confirm to what she has testified to. If I was a jury member I would reason that yes she did lie, but however she did not lie about everything. Therefore I would add the evidence in conjunction with her testimony, that reinforces the evidence, and make my decision based on that. JMO

 

[crazyladi]

TLM admitted to that statement when questioned by Derstine about her conversation with her godmother.

She said she would murder again, but only regretting the young age of TS.

Powerful evidence to prove TLM has no remorse.

JMO.

Also proves that she wouldnt have killed a child and she had no intention of doing so. JMO

 

[KMouse]

Lets hope the jury kept a bingo card of MR's lies. I know I could have jumped up and shouted Bingo!! a few times myself.

We have direct testimony from MR himself. We have the audio of his police interview, jail visits, his cell phone messages.

 

[Alison]

Oh and BTW TLM is not on trial MR is. The defence is just trying to divert the blame back to TLM. The bottom line is he participated and therfore is guilty!

 

[robynhood]

I hope the jury is thinking the same as we are.

Thank you tagean ..I agree STRONGLY ..! I pray they are thinking like us ....! I cannot IMagine how Tara and rodney and the rest of Tori's family ...are listening to this...

IMO ...I kind of knew the defense would be really overdoing ....TLM crediablity...Imo that is all they have as the defense presented nothing!

...and I feel like vomitting when Derstine said " It is not my Job to prove my client innocence...ok that is our Judical system BUT...I certainly feel he should have produced WHY we should believe MR is innocent ...like what happened that night ...Mr. defense ???

...are we to really BELIEVE that MR> took a walk without his BLACKBERRY on to tell ANYONE...I am in a mess of a situation...Imo ..this whole STORY ( defense ) makes no sense for someone who is CLAIMing they are innocent ....TLM pleaded gulity and Mr was there ...WHAT the heck was he really doing???....a very hmmm moment..IMO >>>MR's beloved phone is NEVER OFF>>>???....my strong feelings ..robynhood...

 

[crazyladi]

The crown is going to crush this defence. TLM's a liar... Whoopty dooo!! So is his client.

 

[brighidin]

TLM admitted to that statement when questioned by Derstine about her conversation with her godmother.

She said she would murder again, but only regretting the young age of TS.

Powerful evidence to prove TLM has no remorse.

JMO.

Who cares? She is in jail for first degree murder. She isn't on trial here. He can question her credibility all he wants, but much of her testimony was corroborated by other evidence. He is harping on TLM because that is all Rafferty has. Weak closing argument so far.

imo

 

[Shasta]

1:09
Comment From Adam
I'm Canadian...but working/living in US - does that count?
11:08
Comment From Sheena
My inlaws are following from Philadelphia
11:08
Comment From PaaMul
watching from Playa del Carmen, Quintana Roo, Mexico....
11:08
Comment From Mary
Following from Buffalo
11:07
Comment From Scott
Following from Virginia.
11:07
Mike Knoll: @Tiff - maybe they'll speak up here? any americans?
11:06
Comment From @Tiff
Can you tell if you have American followers on this feed?
11:05
Mike Knoll: @alison - 5,846 right now.
11:04
Comment From Alison
How many are following your coverage online this morning?

I'm following twitter via websleuths from Riyadh, Kindgom of Saudi Arabia. Hope that counts. lol

 

[Flowercb]

RaffertyLFP: Derstine points out McClintic'c first interview with police - she appears cheerful, helpful "girl next door" just want to help

He says "to stand on any aspect of Terri-Lynne McClintic" is uncertain ground. She's a "prolific and accomplished liar".

RaffertyLFP: Derstine acknowledges his client also claimed he wanted to find Tori but "his credibility is not an issue"

His credibility is not an issue? He said that he walked away....He is a prolific liar himself and then some. MOO

 

[Thinkzerz]

Also proves that she wouldnt have killed a child and she had no intention of doing so. JMO

She wouldn't have that regret if she didn't do it. JMO

Really was she responding to killing a child or was she responding to getting a child for MR to rape?

 

[Ardy]

How is his character not in question? He was there when the murder happened and carried on as if it hadnt, went to see her in jail like it was nothing, lied to the police about how well he knew her, told people she was counselling her in the detention centre.... um I can go on but I know I dont need to.

She confessed to the murder and if this is all he has this is bad way of going about his defence. In fact its pathetic.

Well I guess its a good thing they are going to use her testimony as evidence.

They both lied, he chose to be a coward and the jury will see this.

Regardless of what people may think, or long lists of character flaws.......none of it is relevant.

MR's character is not on trial.

Can the Crown prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did the crime.

JMO.............