Trial Thread 8 May 2012 Wrapping up Closing Arguments

[SoSueMe]

Trial Discussion Thread:

reposting a few of the warnings:

Okay everybody - LISTEN UP! We are not bashing, accusing or blaming Tori's family here. It won't be allowed.

Children walk home from school every day without incident. Parents are not perfect, it's just not possible. Tori's parents DID NOT do this to her. TLM and an accomplice DID. That is where the blame goes.

We had a lot of family bashing in the early parts of this investigation after Tori went missing and a lot of baseless accusations - NONE OF WHICH PROVED TO BE TRUE. Victim and family bashing will not be allowed during this trial.

Thank you,
Salem

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Please keep discussion focused on what has been presented in testimony and remember to link up as the partial publication ban is still in place


the crown's closing will take more than one day and will be presented in chapters:

the crown will present its case in chapters:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.
An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.
Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."
"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html

 

[Salem]

The Crown should finish today, according to the schedule. Maybe, just maybe, the judge will begin the jury instructions, also? One can hope, right?

Salem

 

[SoSueMe]

*Bump*

 

[~n/t~]

Good Morning!

Sending butterfly kisses up in heaven, Victoria. Today, the Province of Ontario and all of Canada and the world will be by your side. Shine beautiful angel. We will never forget you. xoxo

 

[~n/t~]

Crown begins closing argument at Rafferty trial

On Tuesday, Crown Attorney Kevin Gowdey will turn the podium toward the jury and address them with his closing argument, which is expected to be significantly longer than Derstine's.

http://www.newstalk1010.com/News/localnews/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10380818

 

[snoofer]

Good Morning!

Sending butterfly kisses up in heaven, Victoria. Today, the Province of Ontario and all of Canada and the world will be by your side. Shine beautiful angel. We will never forget you. xoxo

what a blessing TS was to her parents. The love just shines through in every photo of Tori with her mom and dad. MOO She was so loved. Very heavy heart this morning. Praying for justice for Tori and this family; Tori's mom and dad, brother, grandma's, aunts and uncles....

 

[snoofer]

prays for justice with a resounding "thud" this week. MOO

IF the crown closing is longer than the defense closing it might not finish their closing today. JMO

 

[matou]

Tori’s Father Rodney Stafford spoke with several Reporters during a court recess and says he sees the case much differently

"I'm not worried whatsoever. I'm actually pretty positive in what the Crown had to present. I think they have a pretty solid case".

http://www.1047.ca/local-news/michael-rafferty-trial

 

[tmhco]

"And if that poor child wasn’t kidnapped as part of some male rape fantasy, why is it that Tori’s broken body was discovered buried in those garbage bags, her pants and underwear nowhere to be found?"


http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

 

[greenthumb]

from article linked by tmhco above - http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

It was an excellent job of smoke and mirrors. But blaming McClintic hardly absolves his client.

Even if she was the director of the whole horrific plan, all of the exact same questions could be asked of Rafferty: If he was truly the innocent dupe, why didn’t he set Tori free when he realized she was being held against her will? If he wasn’t an active participant, why didn’t he throw the twisted McClintic out of his car and run back home to his mama?

This is exactly my thinking on the defence put forward yesterday. Every finger Derstine pointed at TLM served only to highlight all the other fingers pointing back at MR, IMO.

Yes, I know TLM is a liar... but the evidence corroborates her story. The only arguments I have read absolving MR of guilt seem to conveniently dismiss the corroborating evidence. There is no one peice of evidence that overwhelmingly proves his guilt, IMO - but all the evidence, taken together as a whole, including TLM's account of that day and the motive for kidnapping Tori, paint a very convincing picture of what transpired that day.

Just MOO.

I am trusting that justice will be served, and praying for the Stafford & McDonald families today.

Thanks to all those here who have kept us updated daily throughout the trial, I appreciate your efforts.

 

[Ardy]

I think it is a pretty sad indictment of our media, when on the day of closing arguments by the defense, the headline and first couple of sentences in their stories, seek to trash the mother of the accused.

Verbally assailed because she doesn't come to trial, as if her presence in the courtroom would prove to increase or decrease her son's guilt in the crimes for which he is charged, and trashed by the media if she appears in support of her son, the media had already determined they are going to trash the woman regardless of what she does.

And then, in her own piece of forgettable literary flotsam, Christie Blatchford uses the word "scapegoat" to describe TLM.

A lot of words could be used to describe TLM...........but scapegoat wouldn't be one of them.

Deborah Murphy, Mr. Rafferty’s mother, was responding to a crush of cameras and reporters who twice swarmed her as she left the courthouse.

They shared a scapegoat, the 21-year-old who is already convicted for her role in the April 8, 2009, slaying of Woodstock’s Victoria (Tori) Stafford.

But where McClintic two years ago pleaded guilty to first-degree murder and is now serving a life sentence, Mr. Rafferty is pleading not guilty to that charge, and to kidnapping and sexual assault causing bodily harm.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...in-closing-argument-at-stafford-murder-trial/

If there is an concrete, unrefuted, undeniable evidence of anything in this trial..........it is that the press should not be trusted.

JMO

 

[Ardy]

If a relative of mine was on trial for such hideous charges, and maintained their innocence, I would support them until the jury decided otherwise.

I would express my deep sorrow to the family of the victim directly and in person, if that was acceptable to them, but I certainly would not hold a press conference to satisfy the press hunger for a sensational headline for their evening news roundup or newspaper coverage.

JMO................

 

[greenthumb]

I think it is a pretty sad indictment of our media, when on the day of closing arguments by the defense, the headline and first couple of sentences in their stories, seek to trash the mother of the accused.

Verbally assailed because she doesn't come to trial, as if her presence in the courtroom would prove to increase or decrease her son's guilt in the crimes for which he is charged, and trashed by the media if she appears in support of her son, the media had already determined they are going to trash the woman regardless of what she does.

I'm sorry but I don't know which articles you are referring to that 'trashed' MR's mother?

The headline from the one you linked is "Christie Blatchford: Rafferty’s lawyer attacks McClintic’s credibility in closing argument at Stafford murder trial" and the first sentence is "As it was outside the courthouse here, where Michael Rafferty’s mother was proclaiming the innocence of her son and blaming Terri-Lynne McClintic for “ruining our lives,” so it was inside it, where Mr. Rafferty’s lawyer, Dirk Derstine, was warning jurors not to believe a word McClintic said."

That is not 'trashing' her, it is stating facts, IMO.

From the Toronto Sun - http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

The headline is "Mandel: Rafferty's mom stands by her son" and the first few sentences are -

As this sad case finally draws to a close, there is at least one woman certain that the smirking man in the prisoner’s box did not abduct, rape and kill Tori Stafford.

But then she is Michael Rafferty’s mom.

In the trial’s nine weeks, Deborah Murphy hadn’t been spotted by the media until she quietly arrived Monday for the defence’s day-long closing argument. Her cane at her side, the well-dressed woman sat at the back of the courtroom, smiling at her son and closely listening to Dirk Derstine’s final efforts to convince jurors that the 31-year-old is not guilty of first-degree murder, sexual assault or kidnapping.

But then, his steadfast mother has never needed convincing.

Again, I don't see this as trashing her. It is a testament to a mother's love - to stand by him regardless. The adjectives used in the story are complimentary even - 'well dressed', 'smiling', 'steadfast'.

The only trashing I detect is trashing of MR himself. And IMO, he earned that.

All just MOO.

Were you referring to some other articles?

 

[Thinkzerz]

“My son is innocent,” Murphy insisted before a crush of reporters who waited for her outside the courthouse. “And this could happen to any man walking around right now. Terri-Lynne McClintic has wrecked our lives and I just hope that justice is served and he is free.”

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

Wow you don't hear her say anything about Tori and what her family has been through and their justice. Also we keep hearing the true story will come out. But i have yet to hear it. JMO And she says "And this could happen to any man walking around right now". Most men would have reported it. What was she meaning by this? Is she trying to say MR was blackmailed or something?

 

[Flowercb]

"And if that poor child wasn’t kidnapped as part of some male rape fantasy, why is it that Tori’s broken body was discovered buried in those garbage bags, her pants and underwear nowhere to be found?"


http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

From this article:

"It was an excellent job of smoke and mirrors. But blaming McClintic hardly absolves his client."

This says it all! MOO!!!

 

[Ardy]

What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

 

[Alison]

What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

MR can be blamed for putting his mother in this position. JMO

 

[nursebeeme]

well, she WAS there... as were a throng of media... She also put herself out there by making a statement to the media.

I guess it is what it is.

moo

 

[Ardy]

As this sad case finally draws to a close, there is at least one woman certain that the smirking man in the prisoner’s box did not abduct, rape and kill Tori Stafford.

But then she is Michael Rafferty’s mom.

In the trial’s nine weeks, Deborah Murphy hadn’t been spotted by the media until she quietly arrived Monday for the defence’s day-long closing argument. Her cane at her side, the well-dressed woman sat at the back of the courtroom, smiling at her son and closely listening to Dirk Derstine’s final efforts to convince jurors that the 31-year-old is not guilty of first-degree murder, sexual assault or kidnapping.
But then, his steadfast mother has never needed convincing.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/05/07/raffertys-mom-stands-by-her-son

The smirking man?...........But then she IS his mother?

Snide, smirky..............just plain weak journalism, pandering to societies seamiest emotions.

JMO........

JMO.........

 

[myzzy]

Good morning everyone

I was reading through yesterdays threads trying to catch up and all I kept thinking was sometimes we show our age.

It is quite interesting when hearing views and opinions and without a doubt I think I can picture who is older and who is from a younger generation. Especially when it comes to MR sleeping around, It shows that the generation gap is quite large at least to me

I got into a conversation with my mother about sexual partners a year or two ago and could see the same reaction from my mother as so many here when it comes to sex..

So we took the conversation to 5 generations of adult females ( My GG is from hearsay but believed to be accurate) and my mother couldn't pick her mouth off the floor because she couldn't believe that having multiple sexual partners is more and more common

To hear in todays society that someone is very sexually active is normal especially to the younger generations but go back 50+ years and it would have been very well hidden if you had more then 1 or 2 sexual partners, it was frowned upon back in those days i believe

My Great Grandmother - 1 Lifelong Sexual Partner ( 1890? - 1974 ) Hearsay
My Grandmother - 2 lifelong sexual Partner ( 1932 - 2009)
My Mother - 4-5 lifelong sexual partners ( 1947 - 2012)
Me - 12+ lifelong sexual partners ( 1971 - 2012)
Daughter - 7 lifelong sexual partners ( 1993 -2012)

The reason i posted this was because of all the negative reactions to a very sexual lifestyle. I believe it is common.