Try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

[luckyme]

What makes me sway one way or other in a case is when those closest to an investigation begin to change their stories.

In this case, I haven't seen that happen yet and perhaps it's a good thing but then again we don't know what was told to LE in the initial reports and during questioning.

LE is smart not to name anyone as suspects in this case until they have all their ducks in a row. They can eliminate the rush to judgement theory as a defense if this case ever goes to trial. The parents may feel that's what is going on but so far, they haven't said mom or dad or both are persons of interest.

I personally don't see the PI doing much of anything except trying to defend the parents. Maybe he's doing things behind the scenes, IDK but considering he doesn't have a license for the State of Missouri, I'm not sure what he's able to do or not do. Asking the parents questions? Why do they need a PI to do that? Why don't the parents answer questions asked by LE? If they're truly innocent there is nothing to hide, right?

Same goes with the threat assessment/psychologist lady (sorry can't remember her name...that's how renowned she is lol). FBI have their own profilers. Why not work with them? Why all this behind the scenes stuff? How is that going to help find Lisa?

In the meantime, a 10 month old baby girl is still missing. Besides the local searches being done by LE (seems they're still focused around the house and area) who else is looking for Lisa? Are flyers still being put up? Is the PI following up on leads? Do they have any leads?

Every morning I keep hoping for some good news but everyday that goes by, a bit of hope is gone.

Praying today is the day they find baby Lisa safe. :sigh:

Thanks! My feelings exactly! moo

 

[wfgodot]

Sorry wg! I didn't mean to stop conv. and I suck at writing. The 1st thought that came to me was mother is responsible. Ok, I don't know what happened, the how of it. Then, I was left w the question, her father too, but which father? I don't even know what that means. The mother is responsible and the father, which one? This wasn't coming about because of the media, it just came to me while I listened to the mom crying words. If I was going to analyze anything I have read or seen on the news, which I don't make a point to do, watch the news I mean, it would be different. I have given this instance before, I was in San Fran w a good freind and she kept nagging me to go in the bay on a boat, on and on. Out of no where I looked at her and said no way, Laci Peterson and her baby are in there! Sorry, saw the post above and wanted to answer that. Me, not a psychic, not a head shrinker, just have always had what i have called deja vu.

No need to apologize, Peazzzer. You're fun to read, and your system is at least as good as whatever mine is, and probably better in this case as I have no idea what happened, and it bugs me. The "Two Fathers" twist is a true idea and leaps off the screen.

 

[TxLady2]

I am trying very hard to examine each "hinky" thing pointed out by those who feel parent involvement is attached to this case through the prism of my own life. In light of all the I never, I would never, I would type statements that are being attached to posts criticizing the parents' (mostly DB's) actions on the day/night of Lisa's disappearance.

So taking that same thought process, I examined my own behaviors in my own real life. Here is what I came to.

I have given birth to a child as an unwed teen.

I have moved in with my new love before my divorce was finalized.

I have taken in a found kitten and let my one of my children handle it and sleep with it prior to it being vetted.

I have on occasion had a glass or two of wine after putting down my kids for the night. (please note my use of the words "putting down" when referring to tucking children in at bedtime, this is a phrase I have used my entire life and it does not indicate anything other than putting my children down into their beds for the night). I have even on more than one occasion had a mixed drink after having put the children down for the night.

I have let my children sleep in shorts or whatever their tired behinds were wearing so long as they seemed comfortable enough for sleeping in. My daughter currently owns several pairs of summer pj's that feature shorts rather than long pants, although I have told her she may not wear them any longer now that fall has set in as they are not weather appropriate.

I have referred in the past to my infant or toddler children as "the baby" or "my baby" and did not at all use it as a means of distancing myself from them.

I sleep with my cel phone near my bed, but only because I use its alarm feature to rise in the morning. If not for that, I would leave it down in our living room on the charger, as does my husband.

I have on at least two occasions absent mindedly left our front door unlocked. That job is usually done by my husband and twice when he was not going to be home that night, I forgot and was mortified the next morning upon discovery.

I have always slept with all of our bedroom doors closed because my first husband is a firefighter and that fire safety tip, among many others, was drilled into early on when my grown son was a child.

So viewed in that light, perhaps that is why I feel so strongly that none of the above has to mean anything other than different choices (not good not bad but different) that different people make. Typing all of the above has made me realize why this case upsets me so. I see myself in some small degree or other in these parents. If it could happen to them what if it could happen to me? This nightmare?

as to the parents behavior since Lisa's disappearance all I can say is - there but for the Grace of God go I. I have no idea how I would function in their circumstance. I get the feeling these people are plain working folk and maybe not terribly savvy as to what they should be doing. I also think they are being given alot of perhaps well-meaning but not so great advice by those close to them right now.

I will not, cannot, judge them based on their behavior since Lisa's disappearance. I simply cannot put myself into their post disappearance shoes. It is too emotionally wrenching a thing for me to seriously consider and leaves me feeling a wreck.

This post has gone much longer than I intended but I guess it needed a place to be written so thank you to the opening poster for giving me a place where it feels appropriate.

Excellent post!!! Thanks is not enough.

 

[TxLady2]

I agree with you,completely. The brain protects us from too much shock,IMO.
I've also had the other scenario that never ends,losing my 15 yr old son to suicide.I've mentioned before that the shock of your child dying becomes physical and uncontrollable. Imagine if the brain didn't protect you !

We had the questions from insensitive people about depression(none),seeing signs (just a couple of hours before he asked his dad to get fireworks for that night and his glasses fixed),was he abused (we got him at 2 days old) ,was he mad at us (no,it was about his first girlfriend).
There is a stigma with suicide .It's called "complicated grief". I'm determined to change that .
A very close friend lost her father a few days before my son died almost 7 years ago . This summer was the first time she told me he actually committed suicide ,not a heart attack.
So I relate to these parents on many levels,but I'm still on the fence. If they are innocent then they are suffering and I don't want to add to that.
JMO

I'm so sorry for your loss!! I have a son with mental problems who has been suicidal in the past. It's a VERY difficult thing to deal with and many people have looked down on us for not seeing the signs. Even some family members don't understand and don't seem willing to help. Some days it feels like we live on a deserted island and have nobody who can listen and not judge.
Again, my heart goes out to you. (((((((Hugs))))))))

 

[Mountain_Kat]

:seeya:............hello, Mountain_Kat!

Your post just about outlines my thoughts also.

I just cannot accept the parents story as has been put forth. I really hope there is more we have not heard that will point toward their innocence. Barring that......................well HINK in capitol letters for just the reasons you posted!

*
P.S. I do not have tunnel vision, and I do not think LE or the FBI does either! This statement not directed at you or your post, Mountain_Kat!

MOO

There's a big difference between investigating and judging, imo. When you're investigating, you're trying to put the pieces of a puzzle together in such a way that the other pieces also fit. "Does this work?" "What if I put this piece here?" "If I put this here, will the next piece logically follow in the sequence?". Judging is different in that you're not TRYING different things, you're looking at the completed puzzle and evaluating it's merit as a whole. (If that makes sense.)

So really, I'm not saying a parent (or parents) did this....I'm just considering them puzzle pieces at this point, and trying to see if they fit somewhere. I don't consider that unfair judgement of grieving parents, because it isn't "judgement" at all, imo.

 

[Donjeta]

Exactly, MK... Open mind IMO does not mean deciding that the parents must be innocent and cannot be judged, or the opposite, it means looking at the evidence and letting it lead where it takes, re-evaluating things when extra information or contradictory information comes in, noting the instances (rare for you I'm sure) in which you might be wrong.

Statistically, the parents did it most of the time so IMO taking the possibility into account isn't judging, it's just common sense.

Nothing is proven yet and I haven't discounted the missing homeless guy, among other possibilities.

 

[Peazzzer]

TY wg, my weirdness is only surpassed by my wit. Anyway, my family and good good freinds know this about me. It was a hard decision whether to put that part of me out there, which does seem out there. Nevertheless, the moms responsibility is there, whether through errors we all have made in life, or well, not so sublime. The father, please, if he is her father, he may as well be wearing a mask. Un moved, un animated in a completely, lifeless way. I did see him blink, twice. My ex was the same way in the last 8 or so years of marriage, after a very traumatic experience he had while using. Maybe this experience has him so shocked, is so traumatic for him that he is just able to function, or he was doing something he shouldn't have when Lisa vanished. I am all for giving the benefit of the doubt even though I rarely get it back. MissJames you can do with what I post as you see fit.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Exactly, MK... Open mind IMO does not mean deciding that the parents must be innocent and cannot be judged, or the opposite, it means looking at the evidence and letting it lead where it takes, re-evaluating things when extra information or contradictory information comes in, noting the instances (rare for you I'm sure) in which you might be wrong.

Statistically, the parents did it most of the time so IMO taking the possibility into account isn't judging, it's just common sense.

Nothing is proven yet and I haven't discounted the missing homeless guy, among other possibilities.

BBM

Or the possibility that this homeless guy might have connections to the parents or other family members. Anything is possible, so that's what I'm prepared to consider....anything.

 

[ketel0ne]

Well, supposing only one parent is involved, wouldn't the other one want to call 911 as soon as soon as s/he noticed and the other one would have to go along with it or appear hinky?

Everyone with any common sense would know that the longer after the last reliable sighting of your baby you wait before reporting the child missing the hinkier you look.

When was the last reliable sighting of Lisa by someone outside of JI and DB?
What time did JI go to work?
What time was DH, and the kids alone at the house, after the brother left, neighbors whoever?

 

[tlcya]

KetelOne

On sunday by extended family members at a birthday party

It has been reported that he went to work at around 7:00

No idea, have not seen that covered/released anywhere yet.

 

[yllek]

KetelOne

On sunday by extended family members at a birthday party

It has been reported that he went to work at around 7:00

No idea, have not seen that covered/released anywhere yet.

BBM

I've been waiting to find out what time Jeremy left for work. Do you know where that was reported? TIA!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Keeping an open mind, these are the things I'm currently trying to find answers to:

1. On what street was the man with the baby in diapers spotted? Was it N Chelsea, or some other street?

2. Have the neighbors who lived across the street from the Irwin's been questioned about this "Jersey" guy? If he was staying there, why was he staying there? Did these people know him? Did DB or JI (or any family members) know him?

3. Who was the neighbor DB was outside talking to the night Lisa disappeared? Where did he or she live?

4. The teen whose DNA was collected...where did he or she live?

5. Anything and everything connected to this dumpster fire. Who lived in that loop? Anyone connected to this case in any way? Did anyone in this loop see or hear anything odd that night? See anyone on foot? See any cars in the area in the very earlier hours of the morning?

 

[tlcya]

BBM

I've been waiting to find out what time Jeremy left for work. Do you know where that was reported? TIA!

Poop, I just knew you were going to ask that, lol. I do not recall if it was reported by the Irwin's or reported as vetted by LE. I am off to look for the relevant link.

 

[justbetweenus]

Poop, I just knew you were going to ask that, lol. I do not recall if it was reported by the Irwin's or reported as vetted by LE. I am off to look for the relevant link.

LOL..I thought you had answered that by saying "you had no idea where or who reported it.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Honestly, I am firmly on the fence as far as the parents involvement.. Which as I stated several days ago is a very unusual position for me with it nearing 2 weeks since Lisa "disappeared".. By that point I usually find myself on one side or the other, of course not firmly planted either way, but ATLEAST have a better grasp on whether their is immediate family involvement or not.. That is not the place I find myself in baby Lisa's case.. I cannot say with any certainty one way or the other and am open and ready to accept whatever next pieces of evidence that come to light.. Hoping that info or detail(s) is more definitive than what we've seen thus far, and is indicative of either the parent(s) is/are infact involved.. Or indicating that the parent(s) is/are NOT involved in their daughter, Lisa's disappearance.. I am definitely finding that this "on the fence" position is the most difficult, as well as uncomfortable position OF ALL!!!.. which is surprising as beforehand I wouldve assumed "the fence" to have been the MOST COMFORTABLE POSITION OF ALL.. IMO IT IS NOT AND COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM COMFORTABLE OR EASY..

Being on the fence and not having an inkling of who is responsible.. And not even knowing what it is that has been done to Lisa for the responsible part(ies) to be guilty of doing?? .. I believe there are a majority(according to polling "did mom do it")that are on the proverbial fence.. So, In not knowing who is involved of course we are going to theorize and discuss all avenues within TOS guidelines.. This of course includes the parents.. With my being not certain either way I am still bandying about various theories with and without both or either of Lisa's parents, Deb and Jeremy.. IMO with it not being known for certain either way it would be an Injustice(<- for lack of a better word at this particular moment) to not still discuss and theorize scenarios involving both or either of the parents.. IMO they are still relevant and possibly pertinent to theorizing the case.. I have several times(at great length, of course..lol) been involved in discussing mainly Deb's possible involvement with theorizing on what type motives there could possibly be that would have had to have been present IMO for her to be involved in her own babies disappearance.. While discussing multiple and differing scenarios of the how, the why, the when, and the where with our having very little knowledge of the family's past&present, the fam's dynamics, and certainly no knowledge of what possibly occurred behind closed doors.. So with us not knowing SO VERY MUCH.. there are infact many different possibilities to "plug in" each of the different scenarios/theories discussed.. They are nothing more than just that, "possibilities" That come from logical conclusions, maybe past or other missing children's cases, or even possibly coming from one of our own personal gut instincts or intuitions.. By the trial and error of "plugging in" each of the many different possibilities we discuss what makes the most logical sense, we poke holes in each of the possible theories we're discussing, or file it away in one of our mental compartments that we may personally feel it is not only possible, and not only plausible, but in our own personal opinion may be a particular theory to be actually PROBABLE to have been similar to what actually occurred late night of Oct 3rd.. Into wee early morning hours of Oct 4th..

We just don't know yet.. And IMO at this present state we'd be remiss not to still be exploring all avenues, possibilities.. And yes, IMO that includes the parents.. My opinion is NOT to EXCLUDE the parents when discussing the various different theories of the case.. I personally INCLUDE the parents in some of the possible theories I have offered and discussed.. We DON'T know that they are NOT involved, nor do we know that they ARE involved.. IMPO both theories are still up for debate and discussion.. I have zero issue with it(it being the parents involvement) being discussed as a possibility or an avenue to look at when theorizing.. This obvious due to my own personal theories offered with parents involved "plugged in" as a possibility.. But IMPO equally as possible is that they are NOT involved in their daughter's disappearance.. Therefor that avenue as well warrants being just as equally discussed and theorized..jmo, tho! What I personally choose not to do is look AT ONE, LONE POSSIBILITY AND THAT ONE, LONE POSSIBILITY BEING THAT IM CERTAIN THAT DEB OR JEREMY OR BOTH IS/ARE GUILTY OF WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THEIR DAUGHTER.. and take it further with an opinion that they're involved and from there damn and condemn every past, present, and future statement, demeanor, behavior, action, reaction, etc, etc.. But this is just me personally..*

I just wanted to clarify my personal position of still being on this damn fence.. And in that position all possibilities are still up for discussion in theorizing IMO.. I am not passing judgement on anyone's theorizing of the parents involvement as clearly that is still an open avenue.. AS IS EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY AS WELL, again IMOO..

** hope that wasn't too painfully loooong for anyone reading**

** and no worries marge.. I didn't take your comment as anything offensive in the least.. Lol.. If we don't take time to have a few moments of light hearted laughter and fun IMO we'd all end up with an extended stay in the looney bin..

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

It is comforting for me to read that so many of you are right there on the fence with me.

I have never had very strong gut feelings. I was trying to develop my intuition, but...here I sit.:fence:

 

[jjenny]

While we are here keeping an open mind, why aren't the parents talking to local reporters anymore, if they think their child is still out there and alive?

 

[SmoothOperator]

I, too wonder what is going on behind closed doors as we speak and it is troublesome to me.. I don't trust this BS swooping in on his white horse to the rescue.. I fear the motives of thise involved in the BS camp.. I fear they are not The motives we all have in desperately wanting Lisa found FIRST AND FOREMOST, as well as justice sought on behalf of her and what's been done to her..

I don't know what to expect next??.. Who and what are they advising these parents to do is the big question??.. And I suppose we have to just sit and wait to find that out.. And that's just not what I want to be doing.. I do not feel like being patient in waiting for this baby to be found!! I want her found yesterday!!!

 

[Tuffy]

My issues regarding the intruder story given by the parents:

1. No signs of (genuine) forced entry.
2. This was the father's first night away from the home.
3. Intruder turns all the lights in the house on.
4. Family had a dog...heard no barking.
5. Next door neighbor had a dog which was outside at the time. She heard no barking.
6. 3 cell phones taken, according to the family, to keep them from calling 911. Really? This intruder didn't seem concerned about turning all the lights on while invading the home, but suddenly he cares about the police coming AFTER he's gone?

Just doesn't add up, IMO. Sorry, it just doesn't. Now, maybe we aren't being given the whole story, that's a definite possibility. But if this IS the full story the parents are telling, then yeah...I have some real troubles swallowing it.

Nope, doesn't add up at all! I feel that if the police have evidence of a break-in and they're purposely keeping it secret it is extremely cruel.

The family is under an umbrella of suspicion because their story doesn't add up, and the lack of any evidence of the intruder.

In my mind, I feel that the police probably do not have any evidence of the intruder.

 

[wfgodot]

Soooo....is it just me, or have we learned exactly nothing today, fostering in some the wish that the family had kept closer ties with local media, if only for the presence of weekend stories?