TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[rosemadderlake]

Here is where I stand with all of this right now:

I truly think the sky is falling; I think there is an increase in mass shootings, and that they are becoming more deadly. I am also afraid that this could be the beginning of much more atrocities to come, and I am so worried about our future.

The question often arises with child abductions, etc, if there is an increase, or are we just more aware of it with the internet, etc. As regarding that question, I feel there is more room for argument with that than with mass shootings. But I do not think we are just more aware of it when it comes to these shootings (and am interested in any feedback from you guys re: this).

My question is (as an educator and concerned member of society in general) what can we do about it? (Aside from gun control).

As mentioned and discussedhere and in other similar threads, one common response to my question re: why the increase in mass shootings is the aspect of the shooter being glorified in the media.

Bbms: I am with you. I come from a computer crossover generation, innocent childhood, telephone on the wall, hitchhiking, high school and college papers typed out, how many peeps could pile into a VW Bug, no guns, etc...

In my late 20's the first little Macintosh came along, and then Microsoft/IBM. Those early days were really exciting. But, so very few in an generation older had no idea. And, really, no interest.

The eighties was a truly an innovative time. I remember thinking when I saw an absolutely different animation that something was on the brink. To me, it meant the evolution from hand to pencil to code to visual.

And, then boom, so many industries changed across the board. The 90's, the Internet, the 2000's digital, Photoshop, virtual reality...

This century? Global, speed, and overload. With the stunning revelation that connects us for good so to is there a shadow side.

It's not just here, in America. But I think of how diverse this country really is, how one explored all its variations. In the past, it took time. If you didn't know history you could be in deep s***. To travel meant an emotional and physical committment.

I think there is loss of innocence in our world today. And the narcissism of fame has a value. It is perhaps the fantasy of every modern terrorist, and mass killer.

I wonder what it takes in that moment, because there is that moment of what goes through the mind before that last moment.

This may not be particularly helpful in this case, but I do think there is a trajectory of humanity that is scary, and in America, congress can't seem to lose a lucrative lobby over lives. And to me that is a sin.

 

[x_files]

By law, Animal Control HAS to respond to an abuse report. If someone had called, they would have pulled his background, hopefully found the Colorado conviction for animal abuse, and he would have been on their radar. They more than likely would have made random spot checks.

I think more people need to report animal abuse, or any other threats that people make. Stop brushing it off and passing the buck.
Try to get evidence if you think your son might be torturing animals.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

:yeahthat:


THAT is something many people are NOT aware of and stigmatizes the millions that DO have "Mental Illness".

But that rationale applies to any group in our society....the ole’ one bad apple & all that.

Right now we need a more defined solution

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It's clear to me that we've been leaving a whole lot out of the national discussion about how to stop mass shootings. What is lacking in at least some of these cases is a system that works for the individual crimes that are precursors to mass violence. The system all too often does not take seriously enough domestic violence, harassment, child abuse, animal abuse, and rape - basically, violence against the often most vulnerable in our population - women, children, and animals. In addition, our system does not give enough support to parents of children with behavioral challenges, especially if it cannot be neatly labeled.

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Great post

 

[bluesneakers]

:yeahthat:


THAT is something many people are NOT aware of and stigmatizes the millions that DO have "Mental Illness".

It's an illness, like CARIIS is fond of saying, just like diabetes or heart disease. People who have illnesses need treatment, not to be feared, stigmatized and/or thrown in jail.

 

[Bernina]

Since we are just learning of DPK’s deviance & charges brought against him numerous times, it’s easy to assume that his parents are just learning about it too. They are not. I’m in no way blaming his parents but I’d like to know what worked for a while, who interceded, did hiring attorneys & posting bail calm him down, is there a history of this behavior in the generations before him, what triggered him, what meds worked, what type of therapy worked, what help did they reach out to for therapy?
There is learning here without blaming..".
But I can assure you they knew.....& they were probably very scared.

We need to collect data & formulate a better system

He was the middle child of 3. There's no verifiable evidence, yet, that any psychological/psychiatric issues were there that the parents had to deal with as he was growing up.
The assumption is that his parents intervened by letting him live on their property. Why wouldn't they have simply done that for the sake of their grandchild and daughter in law? They may have not wanted him there because of his behaviour, but a grandchild? Many parents have done that.
They were probably relieved he was hitched to the AF for 5 years and they didn't have to worry or deal with him *if his behaviour had escalated or they were even aware of an issue.
I don't think anyone greased some palms with the AF, they'll drop 3 or 4 of a multitude of charges just to cut down the paperwork, SOP. The military will not tell parents about charges, that's the enlisted's responsibility if they want it known. Again, the parents may have been in the dark.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

He was the middle child of 3. There's no verifiable evidence, yet, that any psychological/psychiatric issues were there that the parents had to deal with as he was growing up.
The assumption is that his parents intervened by letting him live on their property. Why wouldn't they have simply done that for the sake of their grandchild and daughter in law? They may have not wanted him there because of his behaviour, but a grandchild? Many parents have done that.
They were probably relieved he was hitched to the AF for 5 years and they didn't have to worry or deal with him *if his behaviour had escalated or they were even aware of an issue.
I don't think anyone greased some palms with the AF, they'll drop 3 or 4 of a multitude of charges just to cut down the paperwork, SOP. The military will not tell parents about charges, that's the enlisted's responsibility if they want it known. Again, the parents may have been in the dark.

Impossible. He had domestic issues, legal issues, Airforce issues, animal abuse allegations, guns firing off during the night on their property, child abuse issues, MIL issues, church issues, employment issues, escaping from a mental health facility issues.".., threatening his bosses, etc.

There are many types and degrees of mental illness & most don’t exhibit a profound risk to society but not in this case. He has a history ... documented of profound illness."...

Many knew....but that does not imply blame. It does imply we need effective solutions
But I’m sure we will know more in time.

 

[Bill Carson]

I heard an expert say---and I believe him---that DK wasn't suffering from mental illness, but a personality disorder---he was a psychopath.

I think the difference is that a mental illness is something that develops and could be treated or cured, but a personality disorder is a condition that one is born with, and while a person might learn to adapt, they can never be "cured." In this sense, it is like Austism Spectrum Disorder.

 

[pamelado2]

I'm very curious as to who knew what.
What did the second wife know about the 1st wife or the air force? How much did the parents know? What did the in laws know?
It's about sharing and being open, isn't it? How else are people to gauge all these red flags?





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[bluesneakers]

I heard an expert say---and I believe him---that DK wasn't suffering from mental illness, but a personality disorder---he was a psychopath.

I think the difference is that a mental illness is something that develops and could be treated or cured, but a personality disorder is a condition that one is born with, and while a person might learn to adapt, they can never be "cured." In this sense, it is like Austism Spectrum Disorder.

Personality disorders can be treated with medication and different types of therapy, and they are not usually something a person is born with but something a person develops, sometimes as a coping mechanism.

Are Personality Disorders Treatable?

A personality disorder is a deeply ingrained, maladaptive pattern of behavior that typically begins in adolescence and continues throughout adulthood creating emotional pain and interpersonal difficulties. Personality disorders are believed to be caused by a combination of genetics and childhood experiences, specifically abusive and neglectful treatment from parents.

Since personality disorders are so deeply ingrained from genetics and childhood, they have long been believed to be difficult to treat by both the public and mental health professionals. Some are generally viewed as more treatable than others. Also, different types of treatment work best for different disorders.

 

[Bernina]

Impossible. He had domestic issues, legal issues, Airforce issues, animal abuse allegations, guns firing off during the night on their property, child abuse issues, MIL issues, church issues, employment issues, escaping from a mental health facility issues.".., threatening his bosses, etc.

There are many types and degrees of mental illness & most don’t exhibit a profound risk to society but not in this case. He has a history ... documented of profound illness."...

Many knew....but that does not imply blame. It does imply we need effective solutions
But I’m sure we will know more in time.

Beg to differ, been there, done that, and so have many, many other people I know. If you followed the Arias trial, you would have read about the deception my daughter pulled off on me.
My ex husband's, and also my brother in law's son did not tell their parents why they were "released" from the military until years later, both involved crimes.
I had nothing to do with my MILs, so they didn't have a clue as to what was happening in my marriages, and their sons weren't talking.
The "documented/verified" deviant behaviour by this monster comes from the military, 2010 (2009?)-2014. There has been no verified reporting of issues pre-enlistment AS FAR AS I'VE READ.
His uncle, Dave Ivey, has said on various news segments "“I never in a million years could have believed Devin could be capable of this kind of thing,”(https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...e285c7f4512_story.html?utm_term=.63587ece9f1b

 

[kittythehare]

I'm very curious as to who knew what.
What did the second wife know about the 1st wife or the air force? How much did the parents know? What did the in laws know?
It's about sharing and being open, isn't it? How else are people to gauge all these red flags?





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Well we're living in a world of self absorbed...
Nobody is in charge of co-ordinating anybody's moves..barely getting their own together.
There is no system.. just devastation.
Every case is different and every case is individual.
This is not something that can be policed and whereas its human nature to want to apportion blame, it rarely serves as an agent of catharsis..or healing.

If it turns out that he belonged to a gang.. that his hero was Dylan Roof.. we must ask if he shared any of his values and joined with people of like minds..
Then something can be done if the 'group' both supported and approved of his action.
We dont have this information yet.

Back to the why of it.
We need to wait..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I heard an expert say---and I believe him---that DK wasn't suffering from mental illness, but a personality disorder---he was a psychopath.

I think the difference is that a mental illness is something that develops and could be treated or cured, but a personality disorder is a condition that one is born with, and while a person might learn to adapt, they can never be "cured." In this sense, it is like Austism Spectrum Disorder.

Noooooooo.....not true at all. The DSM V covers both mood disorders and personality disorders. They are all mental health issues to varying degrees.
Additionally, some mental illnesses show an inheritable characteristic and some don’t.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

WS acting super wonky tonight so apologies for condensed answers & commentary

 

[margarita25]

Dear Margarita25,

It saddens me to hear you went through this atrocity. I am greatly thankful that you are alive.

Whenever I read of someone (after something tragic happens) telling a reporter "well, it was none of my business" or I was afraid to "get involved", I just shudder. What if the tables were turned?

The public's "fear of getting involved" is slight compared to what another human being is going through.

It is always my hope that people do the right thing. Our humanity depends on protecting/helping others. I believe we can lose some of our "humanity" when we look the other way. Our instinct tells us what to do. The right thing.

( Thank you very much, zencompass. While it was a terrible experience, (he even beat me up when I was pregnant), it has strengthened me as a human being today, and I have learned what healthy love is and should be. I will never let myself be abused like that again. And I have experience now which can help me help others, if the situation arises. I was just talking to someone last night actually, telling her to run like the wind, that if she stays in the relatonship nothing good will ever come out of it....)

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Well we're living in a world of self absorbed...
Nobody is in charge of co-ordinating anybody's moves..barely getting their own together.
There is no system.. just devastation.
Every case is different and every case is individual.
This is not something that can be policed and whereas its human nature to want to apportion blame, it rarely serves as an agent of catharsis..or healing.

If it turns out that he belonged to a gang.. that his hero was Dylan Roof.. we must ask if he shared any of his values and joined with people of like minds..
Then something can be done if the 'group' both supported and approved of his action.
We dont have this information yet.

Back to the why of it.
We need to wait..

I think it's less about apportioning blame and more about figuring out what went wrong where in terms of reporting and acting. We must attempt to find out these answers if we are going to prevent future violence.

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[margarita25]

I hate to sound like Tipper Gore in the 80s lol because I never agreed with her, and don't really still, but my opinion is tv, movies and video games espeeeeeeecially have assisted in leading to the desensitization----some video games are so violent and brutal and some kids/people spend hours playing them. I am not saying this is the entire cause, but imo it can play a role. Moo. I bet this nutjob played the worst, most violent video games. The kind with big guns and guts splattering. I've seen some of these games myself and they are APALLING. JMO.

 

[margarita25]

One thing I've been it noticing lately, especially with this monster, is that the lines between the classification of killer types (mass killer vs spree killer vs serial killer) seem to be less clearly defined. Some of these killers seem to exhibit characteristics/behaviors of more than one category, moo.

 

[margarita25]

One more thing, for some reason this killer reminds me a lot of ARS who killed Jessica Ridgeway. What else will come out about this, um, person....I really don't want to know. Usually I'm looking for the latest msm...I'm leaving that up to you guys entirely, especially after the most recent reports today re: CL animals.

Monster!!

 

[margarita25]

Well we're living in a world of self absorbed...
Nobody is in charge of co-ordinating anybody's moves..barely getting their own together.
There is no system.. just devastation.
Every case is different and every case is individual.
This is not something that can be policed and whereas its human nature to want to apportion blame, it rarely serves as an agent of catharsis..or healing.

If it turns out that he belonged to a gang.. that his hero was Dylan Roof.. we must ask if he shared any of his values and joined with people of like minds..
Then something can be done if the 'group' both supported and approved of his action.
We dont have this information yet.

Back to the why of it.
We need to wait..

Ugh, "like minds"....this is scary...birds of a feather...