TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[margarita25]

No, of course not. We've had a number of cases in the UK of schizophrenics stabbing random people in a public place. We had several incidents in Birmingham within a very few years:

1 person stabbed to death on a bus
1 teenage girl stabbed to death in a public square
2 Big Issue sellers stabbed to death in a single incident.

(We just saw one here (random stabbing) as well...hopefully that won't become a new trend, knock on wood...even seeing reports of random people being doused with liquids, etc...)

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

U.S. Air Force could face liability in Texas shooting: legal experts https://t.co/NSclgbjjVq https://t.co/x38AQub33K

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[MistyWaters]

But there is extensive research on the subject that proves otherwise.

Yes I know there is but I disagree with the findings. We know that children who are subject to observing physical violence amongst people in their immediate environment may suffer from long lasting consequences, so can how extremely bloody and violent video games be absolutely harmless?

 

[margarita25]

Re: Video games and violence, desensitization:










Study:
Lack of Evidence That Neural Empathic Responses Are Blunted in Excessive Users of Violent Video Games: An fMRI Study



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...es-cause-violence_us_58f64c4ce4b0156697225316
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-violent-video-games-lead-to-criminal-behavior/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/violent-video-games-not-cause-9995091

But there is extensive research on the subject that proves otherwise.

Interesting, and thanks for posting, bluesneakers. I'm always grateful and interested in having an intelligent, respectful discussion which considers all angles.

Upon more googling, it seems there are are many others who agree with these studies you posted as well. But there are also converse opinions, etc., and imo maybe more research is needed. (I don't want to sway the thread too o/t, but I do think it's appropriate for this aspect to enter the discussion, because in the long run hopefully we are here to help find solutions, etc):

"In reviewing more than 150 research papers, the task force found a consistent relationship between the games and an increase in "aggressive behavior" as well as a decrease in "prosocial behavior, empathy, and sensitivity to aggression" and that this behavior continued for some time.

Violent video games: Expert weighs in on "vulnerable" children

But the task force also found that the video games alone can't explain this aggression. Rather, it concluded that the "accumulation of risk factors," such as antisocial behavior, depression, trouble at home, delinquency or academic problems, also played a role.

"The research reviewed here demonstrates that violent video game use is one such risk factor," the report concluded.

The findings are unlikely to put to rest the concerns about violent video games, especially given that over 90 percent of children play video games, with 85 percent of those games containing some violence. The games*came under fire in 2012 after Adam Lanza gunned down 20 children and six teachers Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut. It later turned out that he was obsessed with violent video games, prompting calls from some members of Congress for restrictions on them.

Ohio State University's Brad J. Bushman, who has done extensive work on violent media including games and aggression, said he disagreed with the APA conclusion that there is no link between violent video games and violent behavior, although he acknowledged it is difficult to prove a link in an experimental setting."

Do violent video games lead to criminal behavior?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-violent-video-games-lead-to-criminal-behavior/

 

[Knox]

Maybe some, but it's done nothing for my child, now a grown man. There are different types of personality disorders too. Thankfully my kid isn't violent, but is self-destructive, and it's been a very, very, long roller coaster ride. I do not know when I will get to hug my child again.

OT- so sorry, for him and you.

 

[HMSHood]

I heard an expert say---and I believe him---that DK wasn't suffering from mental illness, but a personality disorder---he was a psychopath.

I think the difference is that a mental illness is something that develops and could be treated or cured, but a personality disorder is a condition that one is born with, and while a person might learn to adapt, they can never be "cured." In this sense, it is like Austism Spectrum Disorder.

What I read about him shows he is a very controlling person. He is a control freak.

 

[pamelado2]

Is the US the only country with mentally ill who kill many people?

No, but notice the list here? The US is the only country with numerous shootings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/mass-shootings/?utm_term=.0aa7be21d937

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[HMSHood]

Man who encountered Texas shooter days before church massacre describes him as 'miserable'
https://www.ksat.com/news/sutherlan...re-church-massacre-describes-him-as-miserable

Some things jumped out.

Jackson said that Kelley was stern with him, and he felt like he was inconveniencing him with questions.

His wife, sister and brother-in-law also interacted with Kelley. Afterward, Jackson said himself and the others all commented on how weird and creepy the security guard was.

"He was not normal. He was very weird," he said.

There is something really off about Devin Kelley. They always say that about other mass killers.

He also said that the guard seemed unhappy and appeared to be an outcast.

"He seemed angry. He seemed annoyed by us, and he seemed like he wanted to exert some authority," Elizabeth Nitz, Jackson's sister said.

Devin Kelley has shades of Charles Whitman, Vester Flanagan, Stephen Paddock, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Omar Mateen, Seung-Hui Cho, Eric Harris, and 9/11 Terrorists. I also see Jodi Arias, Yoselyn Ortega, Lori Drew, and Betty Broderick in Devin Kelley.

Every mass killer and terrorists I read was often unhappy and miserable. This also applies to jealous lovers and bullies.

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

If one was not paying attention starting at the 20:40, one could be thinking Lori Drew is Devin Kelley, Stephen Paddock, Omar Mateen, Adam Lanza, Elliot Rodger, or Osama bin Laden and 9/11 Terrorists. Same thing; constant complainer, miserable, resentful, and envious. Nothing can please them.

 

[pamelado2]

Powerful article, names every victim of a mass shooting in the US (974 of them) from 1966 to now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/?tid=graphics-story

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[margarita25]

I've got an angle I've been thinking about for a while which requires more research on my part.

What percentage of the last 20 mass shooters were in their 20s (and early 30s)? I know that the Vegas Shooter and the Planned Parenthood shooter were older, but it seems many of these guys are in their 20s?

(Eta: not necessarily....)

 

[margarita25]

No, but notice the list here? The US is the only country with numerous shootings.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/mass-shootings/?utm_term=.0aa7be21d937

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Check this out, shows other countries:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

 

[margarita25]

Note many of these guys have animal cruelty histories as well:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers_(Europe)

 

[margarita25]

Yes I know there is but I disagree with the findings. We know that children who are subject to observing physical violence amongst people in their immediate environment may suffer from long lasting consequences, so can how extremely bloody and violent video games be absolutely harmless?

(I also disagree with those findings, but I am not a neuroscientist. I am however a retired teacher who has worked on the front lines with kids for years and I have seen a clear difference with many of them in many regards, as related to the advancement of technology. This is my opinion, don't want to get too o/t. Sometimes it takes time for these effects to really be seen.)

 

[margarita25]

""One can never know for sure whether playing violent video games causes violent criminal behavior, because it is unethical for researchers to allow participants to engage in violent criminal behavior in their laboratory experiments," Bushman told CBS News. "However, there certainly is a link between playing violent video games and violent criminal behavior, although it is not as strong as the link between playing violent video games and less serious aggressive behavior."

In one experiment in which he took part, adolescent boys were given the opportunity to blast an ostensible opponent with loud noise through headphones after being randomly assigned to play a violent or nonviolent video game. The results showed that boys who played a violent game and strongly identified with the violent game character selected noise levels loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage to their partner."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-violent-video-games-lead-to-criminal-behavior/

(Article worth a read)

 

[neesaki]

It is about 225 miles from New Braunfels (where DK lived) to Midloathian. Wasn't there something about Missy going to San Antonio the weekend before she was killed?

I believe so, it it would be interesting to see a video showing how DK walks.

 

[margarita25]

I believe so, it it would be interesting to see a video showing how DK walks.

Coming across so many cases where gait is potentially applicable...

 

[rsd1200]

OT- so sorry, for him and you.

Thank you. I honestly don't know what else we could have done. So many family pictures without him in them. I would have given anything for a "cure". Mine is smart, and talented too, but, he has trouble meshing with this world. I feel for DPK's family members too, in addition to everyone in the church, and their families.

 

[human]

No, of course not. We've had a number of cases in the UK of schizophrenics stabbing random people in a public place. We had several incidents in Birmingham within a very few years:

1 person stabbed to death on a bus
1 teenage girl stabbed to death in a public square
2 Big Issue sellers stabbed to death in a single incident.

So four people in total?

 

[HMSHood]

Four allegations of sexual abuse, harassment made against Sutherland Springs gunman
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-of-sexual-abuse-harassment-made-12338750.php

'He harassed me any time I was in school'

Another woman, choosing to go by her middle name Alexandra, told mySA.com, Kelley shoved and groped her in the halls at New Braunfels High School during her 2008-2009 freshman year. He would make lewd comments toward her, and "slapped" her buttocks at least once, Alexandra said.

Alexandra's mother, Gail F., said her daughter disclosed the harassment to her in 2008 and they reported it to the high school.

"He harassed me any time I was in school," Alexandra said. "I reported what I could to the school, but nothing was ever done."

NBISD Director of Communications Rebecca Villarreal said she had no way of confirming Alexandra's claim. The alleged harassment occurred under a previous administrator and no report appears in school records provided by the district by mySA.

Under stress from a constant barrage of comments and unwanted touches, Alexandra said she began to suffer from memory loss. Alexandra left the school in spring 2010.

A discipline report obtained by mySA.com from NBISD shows Kelley was put in out-of-school suspension six times between 2004 and 2009 for various offenses including, horse play, possession/sale of drugs, profane language and insubordination.

Kelley graduated from New Braunfels High School in 2009 and began service in the U.S. Air Force on Jan. 5, 2010, according to records.

Devin Kelley clearly has behavioral problems. He is a clear cut bully. That is not surprising. Omar Mateen and Eric Harris had history of bullying.

Bullying is likely a factor as they can have history of violence.

 

[HMSHood]

So four people in total?

19 Killed, 25 Injured in Japan Stabbing Spree
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/19-killed-25-injured-japan-stabbing-spree-n616491

Nineteen people were killed and 25 were injured by a man with a knife early Tuesday at a facility for disabled people in Japan, officials said.

An official from the Sagamihara City municipal government emergency task force told NBC News that nine men and 10 women were among the dead. Twenty suffered serious wounds, the official said, adding that the remaining five were medium to light injuries.