TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[kk's mom]

Yes they knew what they did was wrong that is why they hid the bodies. Andrea Yates is TOTALLY different in this case.

Andrea Yates is totally different because she didn't hide the bodies of her children? You have got to be kidding me! Oh, okay, so she called the police to tell them that she killed her 5 children so that means she's TOTALLY different than other murderers. She murdered her kids, end of story. Everytime I imagine those children, struggling to free themselves of their mothers grip in the tub, I literally get ill. Aside from the precious baby girl, the other 4 probably fought like hell. I hear the oldest one ran from her screaming, trying to get away from her when he saw what she had done to the others. She literally tackled him to the floor in the house and drug him in to the bathroom kicking and screaming. Poor little boy telling his mother that he was sorry. She knew to wait until her husband left for work and then waited for her mother-in-law to leave. She knew what she was doing. She knew to kill those children in a certain order. She knew well enough to call the police and then her husband at work. That's not being insane to me. That's what I call being a cold-hearted murderer. Andrea Yates doesn't deserve any second chances in my book. But then again, that's just my opinion.

 

[2sisters]

Oh my, you are opening up a whole new can of worms... :silenced:

No, that's not my intention and I don't want to insult anyone belive me. I just wondered if anyone noticed a link between the 2. Living in the south I just notice it alot. I am church going and christian myself and I wouldn't want anyone to think I am bashing anyones religios views.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Andrea Yates is totally different because she didn't hide the bodies of her children? You have got to be kidding me! Oh, okay, so she called the police to tell them that she killed her 5 children so that means she's TOTALLY different than other murderers. She murdered her kids, end of story. Everytime I imagine those children, struggling to free themselves of their mothers grip in the tub, I literally get ill. Aside from the precious baby girl, the other 4 probably fought like hell. I hear the oldest one ran from her screaming, trying to get away from her when he saw what she had done to the others. She literally tackled him to the floor in the house and drug him in to the bathroom kicking and screaming. Poor little boy telling his mother that he was sorry. She knew to wait until her husband left for work and then waited for her mother-in-law to leave. She knew what she was doing. She knew to kill those children in a certain order. She knew well enough to call the police and then her husband at work. That's not being insane to me. That's what I call being a cold-hearted murderer. Andrea Yates doesn't deserve any second chances in my book. But then again, that's just my opinion.

Where did you get the notion that she wants a second chance?

 

[Socks]

Again, there's a difference between a "reason," and an "excuse." It happened, she accepts that she did it. If you're interested in trying to figure out how to prevent it in the future, then discussion of these "reasons" is necessary.

Her so called" reason" was her "excuse"..and I do not really care to go into a discussion about what makes her Id work. She , IMO, was not as far gone mentally as many of you would like to believe. Now whether that is to help you understand her horrific crimes better, than so be it..but, IMO, she planned it and carried it out with calculation and methodical precision. If someone would post some data that shows how many people in a psychotic state are able to plan their crimes out years in advance I'd be very interested. Otherwise, I believe Andrea Yates is no different than any other self serving murderer.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Her so called" reason" was her "excuse"..and I do not really care to go into a discussion about what makes her Id work. She , IMO, was not as far gone mentally as many of you would like to believe. Now whether that is to help you understand her horrific crimes better, than so be it..but, IMO, she planned it and carried it out with calculation and methodical precision. If someone would post some data that shows how many people in a psychotic state are able to plan their crimes out years in advance I'd be very interested. Otherwise, I believe Andrea Yates is no different than any other self serving murderer.

Well we're here to discuss it, so if that doesn't interest you, don't feel that you have to continue posting on the topic.

 

[Socks]

Andrea Yates is totally different because she didn't hide the bodies of her children? You have got to be kidding me! Oh, okay, so she called the police to tell them that she killed her 5 children so that means she's TOTALLY different than other murderers. She murdered her kids, end of story. Everytime I imagine those children, struggling to free themselves of their mothers grip in the tub, I literally get ill. Aside from the precious baby girl, the other 4 probably fought like hell. I hear the oldest one ran from her screaming, trying to get away from her when he saw what she had done to the others. She literally tackled him to the floor in the house and drug him in to the bathroom kicking and screaming. Poor little boy telling his mother that he was sorry. She knew to wait until her husband left for work and then waited for her mother-in-law to leave. She knew what she was doing. She knew to kill those children in a certain order. She knew well enough to call the police and then her husband at work. That's not being insane to me. That's what I call being a cold-hearted murderer. Andrea Yates doesn't deserve any second chances in my book. But then again, that's just my opinion.

My sentiments exactly, kk. Great post!

 

[j2mirish]

Her so called" reason" was her "excuse"..and I do not really care to go into a discussion about what makes her Id work. She , IMO, was not as far gone mentally as many of you would like to believe. Now whether that is to help you understand her horrific crimes better, than so be it..but, IMO, she planned it and carried it out with calculation and methodical precision. If someone would post some data that shows how many people in a psychotic state are able to plan their crimes out years in advance I'd be very interested. Otherwise, I believe Andrea Yates is no different than any other self serving murderer.

(THE RED )

 

[PaperDoll]

I followed this case for awhile when it first happened.. If I recall correctly Andrea had wanted to kill her kids before and never went through with it.. THIS IS WHEN SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE STEPPED IN and did something about it.. I know she killed her kids because she wanted to save them from hell, but she also knew it was wrong to do... She should have, imo, called for help when that impluse hit her to kill those kids that day.. She should have called the police BEFORE she did this telling them that she is out of control and is afraid... Then again, this may not have worked either because apparently she was crying out for help before an no one did a thing.. How can one look into their childs eyes, pleading for their life, and totally ignore that plea is beyond me.. I could NEVER do that to someone I love and especially someone as innocent as a little child who trusts you... NEVER!!!! This tells me Andrea was totally insane...

 

[Socks]

(THE RED )

I was being sarcastic...sorta..meaning that she was so psychotic in her condition that she was unable to do for herslef, but she was able to come up with a plan and carry it out.

2 years she had thoughts to kill her kids. 2 years....silence...
She couldn't talk or bathe herself but she could premeditate and time when the murders should occur. She knew how and how long she had.

What I asked for was data or some type of evidence that proves that people who are in a psychotic episode like Andrea supposedly was are able to plan and plot murder for 2 years?

I could maybe buy the BS if it was a spur of the moment decision..or even a few weeks..but 2 years..

 

[newtv]

I followed this case for awhile when it first happened.. If I recall correctly Andrea had wanted to kill her kids before and never went through with it.. THIS IS WHEN SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE STEPPED IN and did something about it.. I know she killed her kids because she wanted to save them from hell, but she also knew it was wrong to do... She should have, imo, called for help when that impluse hit her to kill those kids that day.. She should have called the police BEFORE she did this telling them that she is out of control and is afraid... Then again, this may not have worked either because apparently she was crying out for help before an no one did a thing.. How can one look into their childs eyes, pleading for their life, and totally ignore that plea is beyond me.. I could NEVER do that to someone I love and especially someone as innocent as a little child who trusts you... NEVER!!!! This tells me Andrea was totally insane...

I think she had cried out/reached out many times and noone took her seriously.
I think there were many attempts to tell people she isnt safe to herself or anyone.
Noone listened-one day it was all over.

 

[capps]

Do you understand that she feared for her childrens' SOULS? She feared that because she was a bad mother that they would turn out to be bad children and end up in hell. So, to her, saving their souls from eternal damnation is exactly what she was doing. Calling 911 would defeat that purpose, no?

She could no more prevent her actions than a person dying of cancer could save their own life.

Jeana,

I do understand what you're saying.Andrea had many deep rooted mental problems,that were escalating,until she snapped.

I'm surprised,in her warped sense of thinking,she didn't just kill herself,thinking she was a bad mother,and by killing herself,her husband would re-marry,and find a more suitable mother for the children. But alas .... who can read the mind of someone who is in the depths of dispair?

Don't get me going on her ex-husband! I don't think he's all that right in the mind either!

 

[Socks]

I think she had cried out/reached out many times and noone took her seriously.
I think there were many attempts to tell people she isnt safe to herself or anyone.
Noone listened-one day it was all over.

Not according to her med records. No mention of homicidal thoughts or hallucinations dictating she murder her children.

 

[cinsbythesea]

Andrea Yates is totally different because she didn't hide the bodies of her children? You have got to be kidding me! Oh, okay, so she called the police to tell them that she killed her 5 children so that means she's TOTALLY different than other murderers. She murdered her kids, end of story. Everytime I imagine those children, struggling to free themselves of their mothers grip in the tub, I literally get ill. Aside from the precious baby girl, the other 4 probably fought like hell. I hear the oldest one ran from her screaming, trying to get away from her when he saw what she had done to the others. She literally tackled him to the floor in the house and drug him in to the bathroom kicking and screaming. Poor little boy telling his mother that he was sorry. She knew to wait until her husband left for work and then waited for her mother-in-law to leave. She knew what she was doing. She knew to kill those children in a certain order. She knew well enough to call the police and then her husband at work. That's not being insane to me. That's what I call being a cold-hearted murderer. Andrea Yates doesn't deserve any second chances in my book. But then again, that's just my opinion.

You "hear the oldest one ran from her..." Andrea is the one that in monotone reported to the detectives how she killed each of her children. The tapes were released after her conviction-and I'm sure they will be after her next trial--listen to them. She was the one who told them that she had to chase him down. She was the one who had to tell them that when her son saw the baby floating in the bathtub "what happened to Mary". She was so mentally ill at the time she committed these horrible crimes that she thought she was "saving" her children. Yes she knew she had to do it after her husband left for work, yes she knew to call 911 after she had done what her sick, sick mind told her she had to do. She had reached a level of mental sickness that the majority of us (thankfully) will never ever be able to comprehend. This "cold-hearted murderer" when stabilized by her psychiatric medications will have to live with the memories of what she did to her beloved children - and yes-she did love them before sinking into her deepest abyss- for all the rest of her days. Her sickness could have happened to you or to me---but for the grace of God it could have been you or I and not for that reason alone I believe she deserves empathy. Hopefully the mental health field and the public at large will be able to learn from her and prevent such an awful tragedy from happening again. A cold hearted murderer she is not. For a definition of cold-hearted murder-take a look at Scott Peterson.

 

[southernpixie]

Not according to her med records. No mention of homicidal thoughts or hallucinations dictating she murder her children.

I had no idea we were privy to those records. So, the media outlets that have purported she did have hallucinations and the like were wrong?

When you get a chance please let me know where you can get those records - there are a few people around my home that I would like to get records on.

 

[michelle]

I just dont understand how she can be "insane" when she was capable of waiting until her Husband left, then killing them in the time frame where nobody was home with her, it seems to me like this was planned and she did it when she knew nobody would be there to help, that doesnt sound like someone is insane to me, JMO....Dont bite my heads of guys!!!

 

[southernpixie]

I just dont understand how she can be "insane" when she was capable of waiting until her Husband left, then killing them in the time frame where nobody was home with her, it seems to me like this was planned and she did it when she knew nobody would be there to help, that doesnt sound like someone is insane to me, JMO....Dont bite my heads of guys!!!

Hey Michelle - I guess that is kinda the point. No one can explain, convince or sway the other side to understand the other's point of view.

One thing that I personally know is that some of the stinging and self-righteous words of some posters saddens me. I was one that wanted to hurt my child. I didn't - I got help and "stuck" to it. I will tell you how fast this disease progresses and one interesting fact. (For those of you that want statistics look it up your self. There are tons of websites where you can educate youself such as the National Institute for Mental Health) In October of just this past year I had to get my prescriptions filled. Well, the day got busy and I didn't. One day led to another and then another, etc. Between 5-7 days of being off my medication I was a complete wreck unbeknownst to anyone in my family. On the 6th night at 3am I went searching for any "leftover" pills that I would find in the house. You know, a leftover Vicodin from a root canal, a hydrocodone from there, etc. NONE were to be found. Finally, I put garbage bags in the bathtub and decided to slit my wrists. There wasn't a damn sharp knife in the house. At some point through all of this my husband came to my rescue, so to speak. Obviously, I went to my psychiatrist the next day. He explained to me the very fact that once you do start medication and go off it is like kick starting the disease all over again but at an elevated level. He wanted me in the hospital for a two day rest which I refused. Only if my husband promised to "take care of me" and ensure that I took my medication was I allowed to leave the office.

Point one - it only took 5-7 days for me to become so sick that I wanted to take my life.

Point two - once treatment is started it can not be stopped. If stopped the disease comes back with a vengeance - fast and hard and twice as bad.

I have come out to my family, my husbands family and a close circle of friends that I know will support me and help me. Some of you do nothing but reinforce the fear of speaking out to others. I know that we are talking about Andrea on this thread but she could have been me or any other number of people. It is in us. The murder was not premeditated IMO but the manifestation of some sick little voices in her head, a disease run rampant and a miltitude of other factors. I think one poster eloquently called it a "perfect storm". IMO how true and how sad

 

[close_enough]

big hug to you, southernpixie...you hang in there :blowkiss:
(i've "been there" myself)

 

[Jules]

southernpixie, i'm so sorry to hear of your troubles but so glad you are doing better. Your post hits home what many here have been trying to point out. When Andrea's doctor took her off Haldol (I think that's the one), he took her off it 'cold turkey' rather than tapering her slowly over a period of time. He stopped her medication (I'll have to look it up to be sure) about a week or so prior to the murders. I think that is what pushed her over the edge.

 

[kk's mom]

Where did you get the notion that she wants a second chance?

I don't think I said that "she" wants a second chance. She's getting a second chance with a new trial, whether she wanted it or not. Did she deserve it? Not in my books. My own opinion though. Please respect that as much as I respect yours.

 

[kk's mom]

Well we're here to discuss it, so if that doesn't interest you, don't feel that you have to continue posting on the topic.

Is that fair Jeana? Some people have their opinions and post them on this forum knowing they don't have to go into lengthy details about why they feel the way they do. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You shouldn't tell a person that if they don't want to discuss something that maybe they shouldn't post here. That's ridiculous.