TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[jilly]

Exactly, Jilly. And you really can't make a big enough deal about the photos. They are speak volumes.

One is Andrea, beautiful and healthy. Maybe not the most well adjusted and healthiest emotionally, but certainly a functioning person.

The other photo is just unspeakable.

And Rusty Yates had a big part in that. I do believe that day by day he helped that change, but even if he was the kindest, gentlest man on earth, he had to be the world's biggest fool to not notice the decline in her! She was scratching her head BALD, for pete's sake! She wasn't eating or bathing.

There was an article in the Houston Chronicle today (I'll try and add it in a minute, I usually don't succeed but I'll try) in which her friend talked, the one who tried to get help for Andrea and begged Rusty to do something just a few days before the killings. She visits Andrea still. The article mentioned that the children--especially John, I think the oldest, and Mary, the baby--were very well aware of her condition by their actions--John "shielded his eyes" when he looked at her, and Mary cried.

As sick as she was, Andrea noticed that.

It also said that Andrea said she asked Rusty, "What was I like when I was sick" and Rusty would say, "Like you are now, only quieter."

Rusty is one of the few people on earth that the more he says, the less you can feel any sympathy or liking for him.

www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2984081

Thanks for the link Texana. Very interesting...reduced me to tears.

I don't think I'm strong enough to follow this case (never did before either). I can't get past those poor kids and I think I detest Rusty Yates more than Scott Peterson.

 

[Texana]

I find the Yates case makes me sicker and angrier than the Peterson case, because very few people could predicted that Scott Peterson would actually kill his wife. On the other hand, anybody with half a mind could have predicted that with the degree of mental illness Andrea was exhibiting, and her history, that things would have turned out badly in some way.

The only comfort I can find at all--if there is any to be found--is that these children cannot be warped or twisted by their father, as they might have been growing up with him. (They might have rebelled in other ways, but that can be just as bad for a young person.)

And maybe we will finally begin to focus attention more on mental illness AND protecting society from the violently mentally ill. It seems to be all one way or the other--no balance. A person who is found innocent by reason of insanity can still be set free in a shockingly short amount of time in Texas, (perhaps due to budget pressures? Hmm!) A man who gouged out his former girlfriend's eyes was recently found to be "well" after less than five years! (She had oddly enough, just turned down his marriage proposal.)

I do believe Rusty is someday going to meet the God he's been claiming to serve, and heaven help him then if he doesn't repent and realize his responsibility in this tragedy.

 

[lisafremont]

I will never understand a number of things:

Why did Andrea and Rusty continue to have children when she suffered from postpartum depression that was only getting worse?

Why did her mother and brother (who I just saw on Larry King Nearly Dead tonight) think that Andrea's merely being suicidal wasn't in itself a danger to the children? (As if, had Andrea killed herself instead of them, that wouldn't have been horribly traumatic for them.)

Why has Rusty never been held accountable for his part in this tragedy? Tonight I learned from Andrea's brother Brian that Rusty's attitude pre-murders was that depressed people just needed a swift kick in the rear.

Why was Andrea left alone with those children?

And why didn't Andrea, when she was having the murderous ideation, do something herself? She knew it was wrong but she gave into the impulses.

Still I blame Rusty more than her.

The mother and brother mentioned "Warnecke" who is, in their opinion, a cult leader now in Oregon, who preaches a lot about satan and who they blame when they aren't blaming Rusty.

This whole case is disgusting and just enrages me.

 

[luvbeaches]

Rusty is one of the few people on earth that the more he says, the less you can feel any sympathy or liking for him.

www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2984081

Boy, that's no kidding. Why on earth would this man continue having children with her (considering her mental condition).

Tonight on LKL when her brother said Rusty felt a kick in the rear would fix it all, I about choked. This is criminal in my opinion. He knew, and he turned his head the other direction. However, just recently, Rusty was on LKL and seemed to support getting help for those who suffer from mental illness. What a turnaround. Too bad he didn't seek a little help for his wife, and just maybe his children would be alive today.

 

[smellsarat]

Thank the ACLU in part as they have allowed the mentally ill and sick to remain free to be sick...Believe me when i tell you that altho my sister has had schizophrenia for forty years...she is LUCKY she got sick when she did...in these days altho tough...very tough to get help...at least there were state hospitals to go to back then ...

Now the only option for these people is prisons...or feending for themselves.....Luckily my sister was in the system before it was decimated ....so she is at least housed................I have found in trying to help friends in similar situations that in those 40 years treatment of the mentally ill has gotten worse ,...not better...We may have the methods ...as in drugs etc...but we cannot make them get help.....it is against their rights.....and the number of teens and children in trouble is growing.

 

[LinasK]

I will never understand a number of things:

Why did Andrea and Rusty continue to have children when she suffered from postpartum depression that was only getting worse?

Why did her mother and brother (who I just saw on Larry King Nearly Dead tonight) think that Andrea's merely being suicidal wasn't in itself a danger to the children? (As if, had Andrea killed herself instead of them, that wouldn't have been horribly traumatic for them.)

Why has Rusty never been held accountable for his part in this tragedy? Tonight I learned from Andrea's brother Brian that Rusty's attitude pre-murders was that depressed people just needed a swift kick in the rear.

Why was Andrea left alone with those children?

And why didn't Andrea, when she was having the murderous ideation, do something herself? She knew it was wrong but she gave into the impulses.

Still I blame Rusty more than her.

The mother and brother mentioned "Warnecke" who is, in their opinion, a cult leader now in Oregon, who preaches a lot about satan and who they blame when they aren't blaming Rusty.

This whole case is disgusting and just enrages me.

I agree with all of your points above, but in addition, I read most of her 517 pages of medical history of her last admission(s). It appears that the psychiatrist, Dr. Saeed white-washed her with blanket assessments of she's getting better, he didn't record her previous suicide attempts where there were places to fill that info in, she didn't eat and was minimally responsive during her stay, yet he discharged her with "no suicidal intent", no mention of homicidal intent, yet mentions her preoccupation with mothering, refusing to put the baby down, refusing to take her meds, and "a supportive husband"... so it appears the medical system failed her too...

 

[smellsarat]

I agree with all of your points above, but in addition, I read most of her 517 pages of medical history of her last admission(s). It appears that the psychiatrist, Dr. Saeed white-washed her, he didn't record her previous suicide attempts where there were places to fill that info in, she didn't eat and was minimally responsive during her stay, yet he discharged her with "no suicidal intent", no mention of homicidal intent, yet mentions her preoccupation with mothering, refusing to put the baby down, refusing to take her meds, and "a supportive husband"... so it appears the medical system failed her too...

Don't get me started on psychiatrists!!!!:razz:

 

[LinasK]

Thank the ACLU in part as they have allowed the mentally ill and sick to remain free to be sick...Believe me when i tell you that altho my sister has had schizophrenia for forty years...she is LUCKY she got sick when she did...in these days altho tough...very tough to get help...at least there were state hospitals to go to back then ...

Now the only option for these people is prisons...or feending for themselves.....Luckily my sister was in the system before it was decimated ....so she is at least housed................I have found in trying to help friends in similar situations that in those 40 years treatment of the mentally ill has gotten worse ,...not better...We may have the methods ...as in drugs etc...but we cannot make them get help.....it is against their rights.....and the number of teens and children in trouble is growing.

Ummm, here in California, we have good ole' Ronny Reagan to blame rather than the ACLU for decimating the mental health system and turning these people loose on the streets to become homeless.
Tipper Gore, on the other hand, has done alot to promote awareness of mental health issues.:truce:

 

[jilly]

I will never understand a number of things:

Why did Andrea and Rusty continue to have children when she suffered from postpartum depression that was only getting worse?

Lisa, from what I've seen & heard about Rusty, I have a strong feeling that he probably made her have sex every night, and brainwashed her into thinking that it was her DUTY to satisfy her man's needs and bear children.

Why did her mother and brother (who I just saw on Larry King Nearly Dead tonight) think that Andrea's merely being suicidal wasn't in itself a danger to the children? (As if, had Andrea killed herself instead of them, that wouldn't have been horribly traumatic for them.)

I know what you're saying but I can see them thinking that because 1. they knew how much she loved those children and 2. who would think that a loving mother would kill her 5 children. Just the same, the brother did say they considered at one point getting in between her & Rusty and getting her out. If I was them, I'd be suffering a tremendous amount of guilt right now.


Still I blame Rusty more than her. Absolutey agree!


The mother and brother mentioned "Warnecke" who is, in their opinion, a cult leader now in Oregon, who preaches a lot about satan and who they blame when they aren't blaming Rusty.

Oh, I think they blame Rusty - As I heard it, he's the one that brought Warnecke into the situation. Didn't one of them say that Rusty turned Andrea over to him or something to that effect. And, he's the one Rusty bought the bus from. As I understood, Warnecke is the one who preached nothing else but Satan and that they were all going to die. I think they blame him but also Rusty for Warnecke's involvement.

This whole case is disgusting and just enrages me.

Me too. I also think the Kennedy's are disgusted with Rusty for at one time ignoring the depression and now suddenly becoming an advocate for mental health.

Rusty to me is a danger in our society and to think that he will now go on to have more children is criminal.

By the way - sorry about the torquoise!! Thought I was being so clever in choosing a pretty color. Just a LITTLE hard on the eyes!!

 

[smellsarat]

Ummm, here in California, we have good ole' Ronny Reagan to blame rather than the ACLU for decimating the mental health system and turning these people loose on the streets to become homeless.
Tipper Gore, on the other hand, has done alot to promote awareness of mental health issues.:truce:

actually it was deinstitutionalization that brought that about...they thought with the new meds they could empty the hospitals...what they didn't figure is these people would stop taking their meds when left on their own.............now the support networks are few and far between..............:doh:

 

[luthersmama]

Don't get me started on psychiatrists!!!!:razz:

I have to try to be a little careful about how I say this but...here goes...

Dr. Saeed was apparently male. He was also Middle Eastern...Saudi? Egyptian? can't really tell....but I bet the outcome would have been a whole lot better for Andrea if she had been treated by a female or at least by a male whose background was a little different in regard to the "proper" role of women. I am familiar with Devereux and their programs and generally have a great deal of respect for them. On the other hand, I have had dealings with a couple of their foreign-born doctors and, although they may be perfect for some patients, a post-partum depressed, insecure, downtrodden woman would NOT get what she needs from them. PPD has a lot of cultural expectations and misunderstandings tied up in it. I honestly don't think that most male shrinks can be as effective as a female in treating it and a male who grew up in a super-patriarchal culture is never going to get it.

 

[Texana]

Luthersmama, I think you said that very well...and I agree!

My sister had endometriosis for years. Finally, after various treatments failing for one reason or another, her doctor suggested a hysterectomy. She was turned down by the insurance--and when they called to question why, the insurance rep could give no reason in reply. Finally the rep answered, "In my country women don't get hysterectomies."

I don't know what culture that woman was from, but it clearly was a factor in how my sister was treated. (After the surgery, which was eventually approved, the doctor said he couldn't believe my sister had been even functioning with the level of pain that was obvious from her condition once they surgically examined her.)

I had just attributed her poor medical care to an HMO type deal, but I think you are right on in seeing yet another factor that led to this tragedy.

This was a catastrophic failure of all systems that should have been working to protect those children.

 

[LinasK]

actually it was deinstitutionalization that brought that about...they thought with the new meds they could empty the hospitals...what they didn't figure is these people would stop taking their meds when left on their own.............now the support networks are few and far between..............:doh:

Well, when Ronald Reagan was governor, he initiated the deinstitutionalization here in California. (directed at him, not you)

 

[LinasK]

My sister had endometriosis for years. Finally, after various treatments failing for one reason or another, her doctor suggested a hysterectomy. She was turned down by the insurance--and when they called to question why, the insurance rep could give no reason in reply. Finally the rep answered, "In my country women don't get hysterectomies."
[ /QUOTE]

I sure hope this woman was not allowed to keep her job!!!

 

[Texana]

However, just recently, Rusty was on LKL and seemed to support getting help for those who suffer from mental illness. What a turnaround. T

Well, IMO, he supports mental illness health reform now because it's another convenient excuse for him. He'll support anything he can blame.

In regards to that psychopathic "preacher" Warnecke, Rusty said it was "Andrea" who really liked and listened to him. Well, if my husband liked a religious nut that said things I considered unhealthy, said nut wouldn't be getting into MY mailbox or anything else.

Rusty exercised control in that household. If Andrea listened to Warnecke, it was with Rusty's full approval and blessing.

Rusty just knows if he says he agreed he'll get even more blame.

The man is a pathetic excuse for manhood. He refused to protect the children he fathered, and he refuses to take responsibility for it.

As for Andrea, why she didn't remove herself or get help, mental illness is NOT the same as a physical illness. With a physical illness, you feel terrible physically, but your brain is still functioning enough to think, "Gee, I feel hot, fevered, achy, and fatigued. I've got to get to a doctor for some help and probably a prescription!" With mental illness, one and two don't add up. The brain no longer has the ability to recognize the severity of the illness and seek help. The mentally ill person is simply overwhelmed by the illness.

I've had personal experience with a loved one who was mildly depressed. Andrea was classified as severely depressed--even allowing for the fact that the schizophrenia somewhat overlooked--I would NEVEr have left my child or any child alone with the mildly depressed person. It was obvious to any body with a lick of sense that person was just barely capable of looking after themselves.

When you talk to these people, it's obvious something is wrong. They are clearly struggling. You wouldn't leave a child with a babysitter in this condition!

That's why Rusty is guilty of child endangerment. He should have been tried and convicted for it. I firmly believe he would have been brought up on charges if he hadn't been a white educated guy working for Nasa.

 

[luthersmama]

As for Andrea, why she didn't remove herself or get help, mental illness is NOT the same as a physical illness. With a physical illness, you feel terrible physically, but your brain is still functioning enough to think, "Gee, I feel hot, fevered, achy, and fatigued. I've got to get to a doctor for some help and probably a prescription!" With mental illness, one and two don't add up. The brain no longer has the ability to recognize the severity of the illness and seek help. The mentally ill person is simply overwhelmed by the illness.

I had mild PPD after both babies. Nothing like Andrea's situation, but the second time landed me flat on my a$$ for three weeks, during which I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't go to class... it was awful. One of the worst things about it is that I FELT GUILTY for feeling sick!!! I wanted the babies so much and had waited years to have them....had a great husband, nice house, starting a new career....why should I feel sad? Why should I feel angry that the baby wasn't sleeping through the night? I thought I was being an ungrateful idiot.

Thank goodness I had a great (female) Dr. who took one look at me at explained what was going on. I was so relieved!!!! I went on some fairly serious meds and started getting better right away. Although I had missed most of three weeks of classes, I graduated in the top ten percent of my class three months later.

If I had been isolated and surrounded by religious fanatics telling me that all women are hopelessly sinful, I have no doubt that the outcome would have been bad. Having someone tell me that I would feel better some day was a HUGE help.

Since then, whenever I encounter a client or a friend who is in that bad place, I find it helps them alot to hear me say "You WILL get better. This isn't your fault! You can be helped! Take the meds, take care of yourself, do what the Dr's. say, and you WILL FEEL BETTER some day. Might not be tomorrow or even next week, but DON'T GIVE UP - YOU WILL GET BETTER!!"

 

[smellsarat]

Unfortunately the majority of people do not equate depression as an illness.......Their is still stigma and there are still idiots like rusty who think all they need is a kick in the butt....depression also causes physical ills along with the mental problems which many people are unaware of.............

Many people in this field believe another word should be employed to name it...calling it "depression" really doesn't give it the full weight of seriousness it deserves............One of the best books I ever read that described what it feels like is Darkness Visible by William Styron...the fellow who wrote "The French Lieutenants Woman"....Reading it one can actually begin to feel the very symptoms that nearly caused him to commit suicide...........Walter Cronkites daughter also wrote a great book forget the name where she told numerous stories of well-known peoples struggles with the illness...(like Mike Wallace, Art Buchwald ,) Patty Duke is anotherwith a great book...etc...... Unfortunately many still don't get it!!

 

[Texana]

The reaction from family can be so devastating if you are suffering from depression or other chemical inbalances/mental illnesses. My loved one had one family member who referred to it as "so-called condition."

Depression is a chemical inbalanace. Having a genetic weakness plus environmental stresses triggers it. Hormonal changes are also involved.

I think when Andrea was talking, nobody was listening, so after awhile, she just stopped talking. :furious:

 

[KatzHome]

... If Andrea listened to Warnecke, it was with Rusty's full approval and blessing.

Yeah, I think so too. "Wives, obey your husbands." I think Andrea did everything that she could to be true to her marriage vows. She even lived in a school bus, for crying out loud! Without knowing her, I'm still certain that she tried her best to be a "good" wife. It's too bad he didn't honor his half of the marriage vow...

The man is a pathetic excuse for manhood. He refused to protect the children he fathered, and he refuses to take responsibility for it.

Beyond that, and before that ~ "Husbands, love your wives." From what I see, his love is very shallow. If he loved his wife ~ he would have put her good before all things. He would have wanted to provide for her the best that he could. (Not a school bus.) He could have controlled himself and gone to her when she was least likely to become pregnant ~ yeah, he may have done that ~ but from what I see, and from how he spoke of her being pregnant so frequently ~ I highly doubt it. If he really loved her with a holy love ~ so many things would have been different.

I would NEVEr have left my child or any child alone with the mildly depressed person. It was obvious to any body with a lick of sense that person was just barely capable of looking after themselves.

I wouldn't give Charlie, the stray cat that moved in last Christmas, to someone at work who drinks and is moody, depressed and somewhat spacy. I was really glad she didn't want him, even though she first said she wanted to take him, because I had serious reservations about giving the cat to her and I was trying to figure out a way to tell her I was keeping him without hurting her feelings.

It's disappointing that someone has less concern for their own children than I had for a stray cat.

...educated guy working for Nasa.

Un-freakin-believable...

 

[jilly]

Andrea needs a damn good divorce attorney imo. Think of what Rusty has stashed away over these years - an engineer at NASA, first living in a bus and then a measley 1,600 sq ft house with five kids & 2 adults. Andrea wearing next to rags, kids probably never saw new clothing (I know hand me downs are fine, but the baby girl and oldest child probably never saw a new outfit either.)

To heck with this 60-40 stuff and he should pay her alimony for the rest of her life. I wonder how that works when one party is incarcerated. If he is such a man of God as it seems he would want everyone to believe, he should be reminded in a monetary way with respect to "for better or worse". Maybe that would open his freaking eyes!!

Oh yes, I am out for vengeance here.