TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[krkrjx]

I do not think there are any grounds for any new charges. Andrea was found not guilty in trial #2 and I do believe that was a correct verdict. I think her move is to a facility that will get her ready for release into society. And, as long as she never has another baby, I am just fine with her release.

Clearly, Andrea was insane when she did what she did. She heard voices telling her to do it, that it would save her children from Hell. Yes, she knew there were laws against what she did, but in her sick mind she was doing the right thing. I see absolutely no way to compare Andrea's actions with the actions of killers like Susan Smith, Casey Anthony, and others who lied and blamed others and went out of their way to cover up their evil deeds. Andrea did not try to cover up anything, and she told the truth about what happened--the truth as she knew it.

Andrea Yates was a woman who cried out for help many times over. Any help she ever got was temporary; more than once she was released from a mental health facility heavily medicated, but nothing was done about the root of her illness. She kept having babies even though she was obviously sicker with each delivery.

Maybe Andrea "should have known" and "should have taken more steps" to help herself...but IMO to hold her to that means Rusty would also have to be held responsible for things he knew about his wife's mental state that he was not proactive about. One thing I am pretty sure of is he will live the rest of his life knowing his lack of action cost the lives of his children. Certainly Andrea lives with the knowledge of what she did and in her current healthy mental state she knows it was wrong and knows the kids suffered at her hands. That, to me, is punishment enough.

As long as Andrea is truly not a danger to herself or others, she should be given a chance at life. If, however, she ever again becomes a danger, I hope everyone around her is proactive in getting her to a safe place once again.

I remain on Andrea's side, even with as horrendous as her actions were. But, if she gives birth to another child, I will be the first to point a finger in her direction for not taking care of her health, and my mind will then change forever regarding her culpability in the deaths of her five children. Meaning, if Andrea had known then what she knows now, those kids might have been saved but, if she doesn't use the knowledge she now has to prevent future issues and there is (God forbid!) a "next time" I will want them to lock her up and throw away the key.

ETA: OK, it looks like we've all been debating info from an article that is several years old? So maybe there has been no recent move. Since a person cannot be held once they are deemed not a danger, I wonder if Andrea is still in custody anywhere?

 

[STANDREID]

Was she found not guilty for all the deaths or just one of the deaths? I really don't care how nuts she is, she's a mass child killer. If she is crazy then that means she can't control her actions which makes her an even greater threat to society. Even sociopaths know that there are some times not to kill.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Nothing about a new trial anywhere in the news. Double jeopardy would apply here, as she was already found not guilty.

An update on her life now:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...and-lives-with-herself-a-decade-later/254302/

What Parnham (her attorney) is doing for his client now is trying to pitch a discharge plan that would gradually allow Yates to be released from confinement for short periods, "under security" as part of that acclimation process. He says he's got a landing spot picked out for her for such visits and that, if all goes well, Yates can one day fill the job that's been offered to her at an animal clinic. "She loves to work with animals," Parnham said.

 

[gitana1]

Nothing about a new trial anywhere in the news. Double jeopardy would apply here, as she was already found not guilty.

An update on her life now:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...and-lives-with-herself-a-decade-later/254302/

What Parnham (her attorney) is doing for his client now is trying to pitch a discharge plan that would gradually allow Yates to be released from confinement for short periods, "under security" as part of that acclimation process. He says he's got a landing spot picked out for her for such visits and that, if all goes well, Yates can one day fill the job that's been offered to her at an animal clinic. "She loves to work with animals," Parnham said.

IMO, this woman should be no where near defenseless animals. She is not mentally healthy. She may be stable right now but that's different from being healthy. People who have gone psychotic are more susceptible to doing so again. She went crazy and killed her children. The whole thing is tragic but IMO once someone goes that crazy they will always pose a danger. I'm against anything but heavily supervised visits here and there off grounds.

 

[Caligram]

I believe something had to be wrong in Andrea's mind to make her kill her children. But - I also wonder if she can be deemed "sane" or stable enough to rejoin society without restrictions. Drowning a seven-year-old in a bathtub had to take some determination and powerful physical strength to overcome that boy’s struggles and fight to live. His five-year-old brother must have been terrified and instinctively put up a fight too. What frame of mind does one have to be in to continue with such horrific behavior. Still, she had three more left, two down, and three to go. She drowned her three-year-old son and her two-year-old son, which I still find unbelievable. I conclude that she must not have had to face much resistance from her six-month-old daughter. This is mind-boggling and hard to accept that all this activity can be taking place and reality doesn’t kick in. It seems even more relentlessly cruel to hold their little bodies underwater, until they went limp, or whatever took place. That is torture. And yet, this messy noisy business didn’t register somewhere inside one’s brain screaming “stop this – stop it”. How can one live with themselves after this – I couldn’t.
I just don't see any point in freeing this woman - how does one know what other horrors might be lurking in her mind.
IMO

 

[krkrjx]

I believe something had to be wrong in Andrea's mind to make her kill her children. But - I also wonder if she can be deemed "sane" or stable enough to rejoin society without restrictions. Drowning a seven-year-old in a bathtub had to take some determination and powerful physical strength to overcome that boy’s struggles and fight to live. His five-year-old brother must have been terrified and instinctively put up a fight too. What frame of mind does one have to be in to continue with such horrific behavior. Still, she had three more left, two down, and three to go. She drowned her three-year-old son and her two-year-old son, which I still find unbelievable. I conclude that she must not have had to face much resistance from her six-month-old daughter. This is mind-boggling and hard to accept that all this activity can be taking place and reality doesn’t kick in. It seems even more relentlessly cruel to hold their little bodies underwater, until they went limp, or whatever took place. That is torture. And yet, this messy noisy business didn’t register somewhere inside one’s brain screaming “stop this – stop it”. How can one live with themselves after this – I couldn’t.
I just don't see any point in freeing this woman - how does one know what other horrors might be lurking in her mind.
IMO

There was something wrong in Andrea's mind when she killed her kids. She was psychotic. But that doesn't mean she still is, or will be again. Her psychosis resulted from a medical condition that she no longer has: postpartum depression. In severe cases like Andrea's, it can lead to psychosis or temporary insanity. But, postpartum depression is not a permanent condition, and once the condition resolves so does the insanity.

I have never heard of a case of postpartum depression that did not resolve itself over time. Andrea was pregnant often, with not a lot of time in between her pregnancies. Most likely her condition never completely resolved before she became pregnant again. I do believe she can be sane now and stay that way the rest of her life provided she does not go through another pregnancy.

My heart aches for those babies and what they endured. But IMO if there were ever a case for a verdict of "not guilty by reason of temporary insanity" this case is it.

I do not think Andrea is a danger to anyone. It is possible she is having great difficulty living with what she has done and if she were to dwell on feelings of guilt she could possibly be a danger to herself. Perhaps that is the reason she is still held in a mental health facility, if that is the case.

 

[raynjuls]

While I agree that PPD or Post-partum psychosis in her case was the genesis of the problem, I'm not convinced that that was the only issue. Her life was fraught with issues outside her PPD/PPP, including "regular" depression, willingness to participate in what was effectively a cult, and extreme religious devotion / delusion. I for one am more comfortable with her secured away from society.

Many years ago, I had a neighbor about a block & a half away that cared for his schizophrenic uncle. During a block party barbeque at the end of the cul-de-sac that we lived on, he introduced the uncle around. For whatever reason, he fixated on my neighbor three doors up the street. He quit taking his medication and a few weeks later, knocked on my neighbor's front door and promptly shot him several times in the chest.

He had become convinced that this neighbor was the devil incarnate, and was seducing him into hell by sending "messages to his brain". This could have just as easily been me. My neighbor left behind a wife and two young children. Needless to say, this has shaped my opinion regarding the "mainstreaming" of the seriously mentally ill (even with "medication").

 

[BuzzieCat]

I'd heard that last year (2012) Andrea Yates was going to petition the judge for a 2-hour weekly pass to attend church services.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...e-children-will-ask-for-pass-to-attend-church

I was never able to find any followup articles about what the result of this petition was. Anybody know?

It doesn't sound like a good idea to me. She killed her children because of the religious delusions she had. I think she is at Kerrville State Hospital, which claims to have chapel and chaplain services, so her right to practice her religion is not being infringed upon.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'd heard that last year (2012) Andrea Yates was going to petition the judge for a 2-hour weekly pass to attend church services.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...e-children-will-ask-for-pass-to-attend-church

I was never able to find any followup articles about what the result of this petition was. Anybody know?

It doesn't sound like a good idea to me. She killed her children because of the religious delusions she had. I think she is at Kerrville State Hospital, which claims to have chapel and chaplain services, so her right to practice her religion is not being infringed upon.

I think she killed her children because she was completely mentally ill. It was not the religion that made her do anything.
I don't know if I agree with her being out either, But I think her mental illness and the lack of proper care was the reason this tragedy happen.

 

[pamlet]

I'd heard that last year (2012) Andrea Yates was going to petition the judge for a 2-hour weekly pass to attend church services.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...e-children-will-ask-for-pass-to-attend-church

I was never able to find any followup articles about what the result of this petition was. Anybody know?

It doesn't sound like a good idea to me. She killed her children because of the religious delusions she had. I think she is at Kerrville State Hospital, which claims to have chapel and chaplain services, so her right to practice her religion is not being infringed upon.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/us/andrea-yates-fast-facts/

This says it was denied ..

May 2012 - Yates' petition to attend weekly church service outside of the hospital is denied.

 

[Cherry]

Since religion played a role in her mental illness; I wouldn't let her practice it esp in a church setting where she could be brain washed again.

This thread did turn into a bashing thread of Andrea. It's not how you treat people who are ill. You can't cut off your head if it has cancer. Her illness ran deep but it ran deep with the deluded teachings of Rusty and others. God forbid she is given a chance to join in on a cult of any kind again. I agree with the decision to not allow her to attend church for these reasons. I disagree that she will kill again. I also agree that she should be integrated back into society at some point. Then again I disagree that she should work in a clinic setting with life; animals or otherwise; where decisions of euthanasia may arise. Lots of pain in vet clinics and even human society's so I think she should have a new life; but just a normal life by getting an apt first and then working into something like a clerk, something simple where lives are not at Question, animal or otherwise. So that means no nursing no helping of animals etc etc.

Supervised released; I'm all for it. But; only if her meds have stabilized her completely.

 

[BuzzieCat]

I think she killed her children because she was completely mentally ill. It was not the religion that made her do anything.
I don't know if I agree with her being out either, But I think her mental illness and the lack of proper care was the reason this tragedy happen.

She had religious fixations though. That's how the mental illness manifested in her. She wasn't able to sort out the extremist religious messages she was getting and realize that she was going overboard with it. She needs not to ever be involved in a cult again.

If they ever let her out, will she be supervised enough to make sure she is getting treatment, taking her meds, and not getting involved with any more cult leaders?

 

[JenniferTx]

Ok I wasn't going to say anything about Andrea Yates but I just can't stop myself. Now I remember the day that she killed those poor children like it was yesterday because one of my good friends lived in that same neighborhood. Well I am not a supporter of child killers by any means don't get me wrong...I'm even a supporter of the DP and I have no doubt in my mind that child killer Darlie Routier from Texas is guilty beyond any doubt BUT Andrea Yates was a mentally ill woman and not a vicious killer. I blame her husband that gave her all those children and then had them all living in such small cramped living conditions for so long. She was with those children 24/7 for years and he knew she was having mental problems and didn't do anything to help her or even get her any help. I just don't see this woman as a typical child murderer. I see her as a truly mentally sick woman who needs help.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She had religious fixations though. That's how the mental illness manifested in her. She wasn't able to sort out the extremist religious messages she was getting and realize that she was going overboard with it. She needs not to ever be involved in a cult again.

If they ever let her out, will she be supervised enough to make sure she is getting treatment, taking her meds, and not getting involved with any more cult leaders?

I don't believe that is completely true. I think she was incredibly ill and she held on to the religion to try and save herself. She was not getting the help she needed so she was looking for a way to fix it herself.

 

[Backwoods]

I don't believe that is completely true. I think she was incredibly ill and she held on to the religion to try and save herself. She was not getting the help she needed so she was looking for a way to fix it herself.

I agree.

And religious delusions are an extremely common manifestation in women suffering from very severe postpartum depression and/or postpartum psychosis -- even in those who normally have no particularly strong "religious" bent or associations.

 

[txsvicki]

I feel bad for what the woman has to live with, but asking for a pass to attend church weekly absolutely takes the cake. I think I've heard it all now.

 

[LinasK]

Rusty Yates is the one to blame here. He kept getting her pregnant knowing the risks. He didn't push to keep her on her medications, he knowingly left her alone with the children before the mother could get there to help out, and he encouraged her going to this particular church and pastor!!! Andrea didn't turn to religion all by herself to save herself.
And the doctor who took her off her psychotropic meds.

 

[blefuscu]

I've been stunned by some of the posts in this thread. Andrea Yates was and still is severely mentally ill. She's still in a forensic psychiatric hospital. Having had the dubious pleasure of staying in a unit in the UK I can say first hand it's hell! Wards are noisy 24/7, there are people who scare you, there are situations that scare you. You spend a lot of time on your own, you can't just walk off the ward. And she still has to live with the worst type of prison. Her own mind. When lucid she will know the terrible crime she has committed, when psychotic she has to live with the hell her mind develops for her.

She tried to get help. Her "doctor" told her to think positively! That's downright ridiculous. This woman was severely ill. She wanted to die to escape her reality. She was past any point of making a rational decision. She had no choices, she didn't understand that she was killing her babies. She thought she was saving them from demons.

As a fellow sufferer from mental health difficulties I cannot feel angry at Andrea Yates. I feel terribly sorry for the poor children, but she was sick. She should have been in a psychiatric facility and Randy should not have left them with her.

 

[TexasChica7]

He didn't have a mental illness- just a gigantic ego that lead him to believe he had a mainline to God. The fact that he remarried (quite quickly too!) and had more children is truly criminal in my opinion.
I have always thought that he should have served jail time for not only neglecting his children by leaving them with someone who was not fit to be their caretaker, but also for the psychological abuse of leading his wife to believe that she could pray away a severe mental illness if she was righteous enough.
I do not think that Andrea Yates should ever walk free among society again, but the though of Rusty Yates raising more children sends a shiver down my spine. The tragic situation needed both parties to be as sick as they were to occur.

 

[Sherp]

I will always blame this tragedy on olde Rusty.