TX - Jared James, 24, autistic, shot by homeowner, Austin, 5 Jan 2015

[liljim]

Just because someone is autistic, it doesn't mean he is harmless.

Just because someone is autistic, it doesn't mean he is dangerous.

 

[blue22]

so first he broke the door down, and now it doesnt make a difference whether he did or not...

got it.

does it matter if "breaking the threshold" and "forcing his way in" was actually making physical contact with the man and acting aggressively? what if it was just taking a step and putting his foot on the threshold?

does it matter what his demeanor was? it seems we are assuming he was acting like a raving loon, what if he wasnt?

"I can imagine that he appeared physically erratic and sounded verbally belligerent."
well you are free to imagine that... but does it matter if that was actually the case or not?

seems like those kinds of details would matter when trying to come to an informed opinion.

or you could just take a bunch of incomplete reports, interpret some if it wrong, make some false assumptions, and then stick with that no matter what else you learn.

I imagine that because I have worked with autistic children and young adults. Many got VERY overwhelmed and distressed when lost in a scary situation. The home reported that he was distressed when he ran away. He was running around banging on doors, so there are multiple other witnesses to his distress. It would be incredibly frightening and overwhelming sensory wise for him to have been running around outside by himself at night. THERE IS reports that he left distressed from the home, so I'm not assuming.

Someone does not have to make physical contact to be a threat for god sakes. If a grown man pushed his way into my home, he is a threat. Period. His demeanor DOES matter. If he was very loud and physically or verbally erratic late at night, that makes a person seem unstable and a threat. If he were calm (the running around banging on doors and running for the home upset suggests he was not) and politely asking to come in...that matters as well.

I was responding that it doesn't matter to me if he broke the door down or forced himself in. To me, both are threatening to my family. I have seen it written both ways, that he forced and broke. So, we don't know...but yeah...doesn't matter at all to me.

 

[liljim]

"His demeanor DOES matter."

right, of course it does, that was my point. agreed.

" running around outside by himself at night"

this did not happen at night...

"Someone does not have to make physical contact to be a threat for god sakes."

did i say that? no.

there is no information in any story linked about his demeanor at the door to this house other than the unclear/incomplete statements about how he tried to get into the house.

sounds like your mind is made up tho, maybe you are right...

 

[CathyinTexas]

I really did think when I first heard the story that the man was justified but after also hearing various news stories, what stands out in my mind that this a is gun instructor, and he said he opened the door and the man crossed the threshold. That is almost verbatim the law isn't it? If they cross the threshold of your home. I believe he opened the door fully intending to shoot the man. I also believe that because of his autism when a door is opened like that the autistic person automatically walks in. No body has asked the question why was the young man knocking on multiple homes doors? There had to be a reason. We also haven't heard if he was yelling or saying anything. I don't believe the public has all the facts and we may never have them. I have changed my mind and I believe the young man was murdered......because the homeowner opened the door.

 

[katydid23]

I don't know that demeanor is all that important, given the actions of the young man. If you open the front door at night and a stranger tries to enter your home, without being invited---- No matter if they were calm, loud, shy, whatever. I would take that action, of coming inside my home as an aggressive action on their part. And I would quite possibly shoot if I had taken the time to grab my gun first.

It is heartbreaking that it was a young man with autism, and most likely was just cold and scared. But I cannot blame the homeowner for being afraid. He was protecting his family and had no way of knowing the intruders intent. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I really did think when I first heard the story that the man was justified but after also hearing various news stories, what stands out in my mind that this a is gun instructor, and he said he opened the door and the man crossed the threshold. That is almost verbatim the law isn't it? If they cross the threshold of your home. I believe he opened the door fully intending to shoot the man. I also believe that because of his autism when a door is opened like that the autistic person automatically walks in. No body has asked the question why was the young man knocking on multiple homes doors? There had to be a reason. We also haven't heard if he was yelling or saying anything. I don't believe the public has all the facts and we may never have them. I have changed my mind and I believe the young man was murdered......because the homeowner opened the door.

I think that is kind of unfair to say that because the man opened the door, he planned to murder the stranger. I disagree. We have a weapon for home use. My husband has opened the door at night if he thinks the person might need help. But he has his Glock just in case. One time a neighbors grandson knocked on the door late at night because his grandmother was ill, he went to get his car to drive her the the ER and he got locked out of her home. My husband recognized him after he opened the door and spoke to him. But he did have the gun in his waistband.

 

[liljim]

this did not happen at night.

 

[liljim]

and once more just to be clear, i still have not decided what to make of this case because i dont think i have enough information.

it definitely is possible that the homeowner was justified. and it is definitely still possible that he was wrong to shoot.

all im doing at this point is debating what the facts are and how much we can deduce from them. i did the same thing during the renisha mcbride case and as more facts became known about that i definitely learned some things that changed my opinion. i think there is a chance the same thing could happen here.

 

[sonjay]

this did not happen at night.

According to this article, it happened just before 6:30 am:
http://kxan.com/2015/01/05/apd-investigating-suspicious-death-in-south-austin/

According to this source, sunrise in Austin at this time of year is about 7:30 am.
http://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/usa/austin

It was still full dark.

The homeowner had his wife and 3 children to consider.

I'm sorry that the autistic man is dead, but at this point, with the information available now, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner. Particularly since no one knows what the autistic man may have done after entering the home. Can anyone be 100% confident that he was not a danger to the homeowner, his wife, or his children? The homeowner had to make that decision in a split second.

 

[liljim]

i dont know anyone that considers 6:30am night. regarding how bright it is then, im not there so i cant say, but i will say that the sunrise here is listed at 7:30am and it is plenty light out long before that. exactly how long? im not sure, i could check tomorrow.

 

[liljim]

"I'm sorry that the autistic man is dead, but at this point, with the information available now, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner. Particularly since no one knows what the autistic man may have done after entering the home. Can anyone be 100% confident that he was not a danger to the homeowner, his wife, or his children? The homeowner had to make that decision in a split second."

i dont disagree with any of that, im just saying we do not know.

and as i pointed out already, one police spokesperson was very careful to say only that the man "broke the threshold", not that he was screaming and yelling, or actually even fully entered the home, not that he touched or hit anyone...

i would tend to give the homeowner the benefit of the doubt also, that doesnt mean my mind is made up or i do not want to hear more details before coming to a decision.

i posted this earlier and i guess it didnt make it thru - in the renisha mcbride case things looked much different after just the first reports, then a lot more info came out that changed things dramatically.

 

[blue22]

"His demeanor DOES matter."

right, of course it does, that was my point. agreed.

" running around outside by himself at night"

this did not happen at night...

"Someone does not have to make physical contact to be a threat for god sakes."

did i say that? no.

there is no information in any story linked about his demeanor at the door to this house other than the unclear/incomplete statements about how he tried to get into the house.

sounds like your mind is made up tho, maybe you are right...

IF the man forced himself into the home, yes I've made up my mind. This is the information we have. If it changes, I'm never afraid to revise my opinion based on what is presented.

**Apologies, I know this happened early morning. I meant running around int he dark. NOT at night, lol. It's reported to happen before 6:30 am, which is usually still dark in the winter. (And if not dark, not yet light.)

- I can only speak for myself when I say this, so I'm not painting with broad strokes. I am much more easily rattled (for lack of better words) or cautious when it's late or very early. Basically, at times I'm not fully awake.

 

[nothingnew]

Just because someone is autistic, it doesn't mean he is dangerous.

Nobody knew he was autistic at the time so that's kind of irrelevant. It's not like anyone was screaming about an "autistic" man banging on doors, just a man banging on doors and then forcing his way into a home.

 

[liljim]

Nobody knew he was autistic at the time so that's kind of irrelevant. It's not like anyone was screaming about an "autistic" man banging on doors, just a man banging on doors and then forcing his way into a home.

you must have missed the post i quoted in my reply, it was a specific response to just that post. not any sort of commentary on the case in general.

 

[enchilada]

i dont know anyone that considers 6:30am night. regarding how bright it is then, im not there so i cant say, but i will say that the sunrise here is listed at 7:30am and it is plenty light out long before that. exactly how long? im not sure, i could check tomorrow.

I leave for work at 6:30am. Sunrise here lately is around 7:20. It's still dark at 6:30. It's not fully dark, but I have to turn on an outside light to find the keyhole to lock the door when I'm leaving.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sonjay]

"I'm sorry that the autistic man is dead, but at this point, with the information available now, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the homeowner. Particularly since no one knows what the autistic man may have done after entering the home. Can anyone be 100% confident that he was not a danger to the homeowner, his wife, or his children? The homeowner had to make that decision in a split second."

i dont disagree with any of that, im just saying we do not know.

and as i pointed out already, one police spokesperson was very careful to say only that the man "broke the threshold", not that he was screaming and yelling, or actually even fully entered the home, not that he touched or hit anyone...

i would tend to give the homeowner the benefit of the doubt also, that doesnt mean my mind is made up or i do not want to hear more details before coming to a decision.

i posted this earlier and i guess it didnt make it thru - in the renisha mcbride case things looked much different after just the first reports, then a lot more info came out that changed things dramatically.

I agree, and that's why I was careful to say "at this point, with the information available now." Many incidents often look much different later on as more information emerges.

 

[blue22]

The first update in a while.

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/loca...amage-to-home-after-deadly-shooting/21656041/

"Austin police confirmed the damage in the photo was how the door looked when they arrived."

 

[sonjay]

The first update in a while.

http://www.kvue.com/story/news/loca...amage-to-home-after-deadly-shooting/21656041/

"Austin police confirmed the damage in the photo was how the door looked when they arrived."

Looks like the autistic guy did a little more than knock on the door. (Assuming that the homeowner didn't do that damage himself, and so far there's no evidence that he did.)

 

[blue22]

Yes. The way the media was reporting was not very clear. First, he knocked the door in and then it flip flopped all over the place to pushing the door open and the homeowner letting him in.

The man was banging on doors. The police were called quickly in this situation, by more one person. They arrived quickly. I just seriously doubt this homeowner shot for no reason and kicked his door open to make it look like a clean shooting. I think this is just a really tragic experience. I'm glad the home he was at is being investigated, because the responsibility starts there. He was severely autistic (according to the family) and never should have had the chance to escape. I can't imagine how disoriented, panicked, and fearful he was when he was running and banging on the doors. Unfortunately, the homeowner didn't know this and all he knew was a man was trying to get in his home. It's so, so sad.