TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #1

[justthinkin]

Guess we are all different because I would most likely refer to an upper level parking deck as the upper level parking, but also specifying in front of which store.

As for the phrase, "catch it," I never used it, but years ago I remember my mother saying, "you're going to catch he(( when I get hold of you."

I'm guessing "catch it" was a familial phrase that Rachel remembered from childhood. If not, then that raises the question where it came from or exactly who put that in the note.

I sure wish Ft. Worth LE would go through that basement with luminol. That could prove interesting. A security guard could have held them in a vacant room other than those regularly used by security so as not to draw suspicion from the other guard. Actually, all three girls could've been hit in the head to knock them out, and the security guard have tied them up and put tape over their mouths. No one would hear them at all in a shopping mall filled with people.

I don't feel strongly about human trafficking as a possibility, and from what little reading I've done on it, Rachel was too old, believe it or not, at age 17, and Renee borderline. Julie Ann however would've been the right age for being sold. I also gathered that it was mostly girls from outside the US brought in to the US to serve as slaves, at least during the time period we're talking about, rather than US girls being trafficked. Like I said though, I haven't read much about it being a problem back in 1974.

I'm not going to mention that security guard's name who volunteered info so many years later, but he was ex-LE, and that sends up a red flag to me, and just because he was pointing a finger at the other security guard doesn't mean he wasn't the true perp himself. I think he very well could've been. It'd been so many years, and if he was never questioned, then he'd know he was pretty safe in coming forward. In other words, if LE had anything they'd have questioned him way back when. And without the bodies, it would be hard to charge anyone with anything, and it's been so long, even if LE was sure who did it, convicting that person or persons would be next to impossible now.

 

[Balthazar]

It is startling to learn, but many victims of human trafficking in the US are US citizens - generally vunerable young women. There are plenty of other victims who are brought in from other countries, but it can and has happened to normal American teen girls.

This is a link to the story the documentary I watched on human trafficking is based on in which an American teen was kidnapped and drugged and forced into sexual slavery at age 17 :

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/12/eveningnews/main3254966.shtml

more facts:

http://www.rense.com/general85/slav.htm

http://nomoreslaveryct.com/2008/10/18/connecticut-man-sentenced-for-leading-human-trafficking-ring/

 

[justthinkin]

In 1974 the odds were against human trafficking being what happened to those girls, imo. I regularly watched the evening news, and I don't ever remember hearing any stories related to human trafficking in the USA back then or even 10 years later. I think that's just way out there as a theory as what happened to the 3 girls.

http://www.humantrafficking.org/countries/united_states_of_america
"The United States of America is principally a transit and destination country for trafficking in persons."

edited to add: I think the majority of girls who wind up as sexual slaves are runaways. They come into a city most likely by bus, and pimps hang out at bus stations, befriend the girls at first, and then turn them into prostitutes against their will. This is something that's gone on for a long time, and it is human trafficking, but in a slightly different sense to my way of thinking, and is really more localized.

 

[Balthazar]

Justthinkin: I agree, and yet, since the girls have never been found I do believe that it is something that should be considered, albeit a minor theory compared to the security guard theory.

 

[justthinkin]

Sadly, the USA is full of people who've never been found.

FYI, PrincessRose, Houston's Restaurant wasn't in existence until 1976. They're owned by The Hillstone Group out of LA.
Actually, I didn't even think they had been around that long. News to me.


I really wish we could get Ft. Worth LE to go over the out of the way places in the basement of Seminary South with Luminol. It could open up a whole new lead, and possibly a strong one at that, if they would only do so.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

It is startling to learn, but many victims of human trafficking in the US are US citizens - generally vunerable young women. There are plenty of other victims who are brought in from other countries, but it can and has happened to normal American teen girls.

This is a link to the story the documentary I watched on human trafficking is based on in which an American teen was kidnapped and drugged and forced into sexual slavery at age 17 :

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/12/eveningnews/main3254966.shtml

more facts:

http://www.rense.com/general85/slav.htm

http://nomoreslaveryct.com/2008/10/18/connecticut-man-sentenced-for-leading-human-trafficking-ring/

Thank you Princess Rose for posting these articles. The PI on Haleigh Cummings case mentioned this and I thought he was off his rocker. The more I read, the more I wonder why there isn't more awareness about this issue. It seems like LE and related professionals are aware, but not the general public.

I hope that deige contacts Mark K.

 

[deige]

PRINCESS i DON'T know WHO Mark K. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME. YOU GUYS WAY THINK i'V LOST MY MIND, BUT i HAVE BEEN CONDIDEREING FORMING A WEEKLY CLUB TO IT AND TOSS OVER ALL THESE WONDERFUL IDEAS. MYBE A LIBRARY OR BOOK STORE OR SOMETHING AND AS WE BECOME A CLOSER GROUP AnD LEARN TO TRUST EACH OTHER M0RE ,I MIGHT ME WILLING TO ME AT MY HOME OR YOURS,I THINK FACE TO FACE WOULD BE SO MUCH HELPFUL. LET ME KNOW BY pm'S.WE CAN BRING OUR LAPTOPS FOR OUR REACH SEARCH. i WILL BRING EVERYTHING i CAN FIND TO HELP IN OUR JOURNEY tHIS NOT A JOKE AND ONLY A HANDFUL WOULD BE INVITED,
tHIS IS A LITTLE SCAREY BUT i AM WILLING TO TAKE THAT CHANCE, kAIESER AND PRINCESS AND TXSANDMAM YOU ARE DEFEINITELLY ON THE LIST. AND DON'T THINIK i HAVE LEFT YOU OUT Justthinkin. YOU SEEM TO HAVE THE MOST IMPUT.WE COULD MAKE THIS OUR LITTLE STUDY GROUP.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
WITH SINCEREST HEART
DEIGE
PlEASE PM ME YOUR INPUT
tHIS IS NOT A GAME

 

[Balthazar]

Diege,
Marc Klaas is the father of Polly Klaas. In 1993, 12 year old Polly was taken at knifepoint from her bedroom during a slumber party by a strange man who had snuck into her mother's house. This was witnessed by two other girls at the slumber party. She was found two months later strangled. Richard Allen Davis was later convicted of her murder and has been sentenced to death. Out of this tragedy, Marc Klaas became a child advocate and founder of KlaasKids Foundation and BeyondMissing, Inc. He makes himself available to families of kidnapped children and has appeared on many, many TV shows including Larry King Live, CNN Headline News and Nancy Grace as well as before the US Senate and various state legislatures to advocate for improved child safety laws. Many of the problems your family experienced with Law Enforcement efforts in the aftermath of your sisters' disappearance are things that Marc Klaas has worked to solve. He has also worked to stiffen prison sentences for those involved in crimes against children and is currently advocating against child sex trafficking in the United States. He would certainly be interested in your sisters' case and may be able to provide you with insight as to additional help available.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Klaas

http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-ourstory.htm

Contact information for Marc Klaas:

KlaasKids Foundation • P.O. Box 925, Sausalito, CA 94966
Tel: (415) 331-6867 • Fax: (415) 331-5633 • Email: klaaskids@pacbell.net

 

[Balthazar]

Thank you Princess Rose for posting these articles. The PI on Haleigh Cummings case mentioned this and I thought he was off his rocker. The more I read, the more I wonder why there isn't more awareness about this issue. It seems like LE and related professionals are aware, but not the general public.

I hope that deige contacts Mark K.

These articles are just horrifying aren't they? I had no idea the problem was so pervasive today. It appears that statistics on trafficking of US citizens have not been kept, although they find them here in the US once in a while when they break up human trafficking rings. It is interesting that Hillary Clinton has just released a report about Human Trafficking in the US this month.

http://hillary.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/06/16/hillary_clinton_releases_human_trafficking_report

 

[TexasSandman]

PRINCESS i DON'T know WHO Mark K. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME. YOU GUYS WAY THINK i'V LOST MY MIND, BUT i HAVE BEEN CONDIDEREING FORMING A WEEKLY CLUB TO IT AND TOSS OVER ALL THESE WONDERFUL IDEAS. MYBE A LIBRARY OR BOOK STORE OR SOMETHING AND AS WE BECOME A CLOSER GROUP AnD LEARN TO TRUST EACH OTHER M0RE ,I MIGHT ME WILLING TO ME AT MY HOME OR YOURS,I THINK FACE TO FACE WOULD BE SO MUCH HELPFUL. LET ME KNOW BY pm'S.WE CAN BRING OUR LAPTOPS FOR OUR REACH SEARCH. i WILL BRING EVERYTHING i CAN FIND TO HELP IN OUR JOURNEY tHIS NOT A JOKE AND ONLY A HANDFUL WOULD BE INVITED,
tHIS IS A LITTLE SCAREY BUT i AM WILLING TO TAKE THAT CHANCE, kAIESER AND PRINCESS AND TXSANDMAM YOU ARE DEFEINITELLY ON THE LIST. AND DON'T THINIK i HAVE LEFT YOU OUT Justthinkin. YOU SEEM TO HAVE THE MOST IMPUT.WE COULD MAKE THIS OUR LITTLE STUDY GROUP.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
WITH SINCEREST HEART
DEIGE
PlEASE PM ME YOUR INPUT
tHIS IS NOT A GAME

Deige I think this is a great idea..unfortunately I live near Austin now so it would be impossible for me to make weekly meetings unless we also did an Instant Message or chatroom meeting. But I would love to be a part of it. I was also thinking about contacting the detective in charge and asking what info, if any, can be released for public consumption/dissection. If we can get that info, I will be happy to post it on a website so that we have everything available in one spot.

 

[Balthazar]

Deige I think this is a great idea..unfortunately I live near Austin now so it would be impossible for me to make weekly meetings unless we also did an Instant Message or chatroom meeting. But I would love to be a part of it. I was also thinking about contacting the detective in charge and asking what info, if any, can be released for public consumption/dissection. If we can get that info, I will be happy to post it on a website so that we have everything available in one spot.

That sounds like a good idea to me. It would really help to have whatever can be made public from the case file so we wouldn't have to overwhelm Debra with so many questions.

 

[justthinkin]

Sounds like a good idea to me too.

Here's a link to some statistics posted on Texas Equisearch's website that I thought were worth reading concerning this case and others.

http://texasequusearch.org/category/info/stats/

 

[daisy.faithfull]

These articles are just horrifying aren't they? I had no idea the problem was so pervasive today. It appears that statistics on trafficking of US citizens have not been kept, although they find them here in the US once in a while when they break up human trafficking rings. It is interesting that Hillary Clinton has just released a report about Human Trafficking in the US this month.

http://hillary.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/06/16/hillary_clinton_releases_human_trafficking_report

I do think that this is an avenue that needs to be explored in this case and sadly others as well.

I was thinking about it yesterday afternoon and I was wondering if the situation is similiar to to the child and other illegal *advertiser censored* rings. At the beginning of the Sandra Cantu search police in the area busted a child *advertiser censored* ring in the area. It was brought up that the number of these rings are astounding, LE knows it and for whatever reason does nothing about it. I feel the same may be true with human trafficking.

After reading what Hillary is up to I went to see what other types of books out there on the subject besides the one that was mentioned. There actually are quite a few. I wonder if they may give some insight into how/ what LE agencies to contact to have this investigated.

TexasSandman, you mentioned calling LE, I can't do that because I live here in AZ but I would be interesting in knowing if they have a sex crimes unit that could investigate the case, if appropriate. Its possible that they did not have that kind of unit when Rachel, Renee and Julie went missing. I'll see what I can find on the internet, and do some emailing, but if you are going to call that may get an answer before I could.

 

[TexasSandman]

I've been informed that the lead investigator recently had a heart attack. I am trying to find out if he is back to work, or when he is expected to do so.

 

[deige]

Texas Sandman,
Yes the detective did have a heart attack and then a triple by-pass. From what I understand he is recovering and back at work. When you think you may be coming to Fort Worth let me know. Maybe we can have lunch or something.

 

[gaia227]

These articles are just horrifying aren't they? I had no idea the problem was so pervasive today. It appears that statistics on trafficking of US citizens have not been kept, although they find them here in the US once in a while when they break up human trafficking rings. It is interesting that Hillary Clinton has just released a report about Human Trafficking in the US this month.

http://hillary.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/06/16/hillary_clinton_releases_human_trafficking_report

Human traffiking is a big problem and part of the problem is the fact that it does not get much attention and a lot of people just refuse to believe it is happening - especially in the U.S.

Woman who are trafficked from overseas tend to get roped by responding to a job placement advertisement usually advertising for housecleaning, nannies, etc in the states and once they arrive at the airport they are taken and held against their will.

A lot of normal American teenage girls get caught up in the web of sex slavery. Sadly many of these crimes go unpunished.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22083762/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/23/48hours/main675913.shtml

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/sex_traff_us.pdf

http://www.womensfundingnetwork.org...-america-sex-trafficking-in-the-united-states

http://www.beverlylahayeinstitute.org/articledisplay.asp?id=7014&department=bli&categoryid=reports

 

[Balthazar]

gaia227: Thanks for this information. It looks to me like very little research was done on human trafficking in the 1970's and the police in Ft. Worth may not have even been aware that this could be the problem. I saw a chart on a documentary about human trafficking that showed a circuit around which women taken for sexual slavery are moved in the US. You wouldn't happen to have seen that chart or know where it is on the internet, would you?

It seems to me, three girls taken just before Christmas could have been as a "gift" for someone.

 

[justthinkin]

I don't find human trafficking hard to believe at all. I just find it hard to believe concerning this case in 1974. Sadly, our country is on a downward spiral. The kind of people involved in human trafficking are a different breed from the pedophile who molests the children in the neighborhood or step children. This is much worse because money has entered into the equation, and that alone places more children at greater risk. This is really quite tragic.

 

[justthinkin]

Some of you have a much closer eye on this case than I do since you're aware of what's going on with the detective's health.

PrincessRose has been pming me, and I now understand what the parking lot looks like. She was saying that in her opinion calling the hillside parking the upper lot was language that seemed particular to security or mall management personnel, if I got that right. : ) I think she may well be right on that. After understanding the parking layout, it seems to me most people would say they parked on the hill by Sears or on the hillside outside of Sears or by the 2nd. floor entrance of Sears.

With what PrincessRose said, I feel even more strongly about LE testing parts of the basement with luminol. I wonder if we can put forth a group effort to get them to do that when the main detective feels better. Maybe all send letters on the same day to the detective's attention. What do you think?

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Some of you have a much closer eye on this case than I do since you're aware of what's going on with the detective's health.

PrincessRose has been pming me, and I now understand what the parking lot looks like. She was saying that in her opinion calling the hillside parking the upper lot was language that seemed particular to security or mall management personnel, if I got that right. : ) I think she may well be right on that. After understanding the parking layout, it seems to me most people would say they parked on the hill by Sears or on the hillside outside of Sears or by the 2nd. floor entrance of Sears.

With what PrincessRose said, I feel even more strongly about LE testing parts of the basement with luminol. I wonder if we can put forth a group effort to get them to do that when the main detective feels better. Maybe all send letters on the same day to the detective's attention. What do you think?

I've written more letters to people that I never thought I would in the short time that I've been here at WS. I know that I am new to the thread, but I really would like to help.

Thanks, daisy.faithfull