TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

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HerStory said:
I am confused. Why would anyone get married a second time in LV? There doesn't appear to be any notable record for it...so it must have been a symbolic ceremony. However, FLEK and BR don't strike me as the spontaneous type. Furthermore, most couples elope to LV and THEN solemnize it in front of friends, family, and/or congregation.

Sooooooo.

Also, if such a date can be established, then maybe her movements or interactions while in LV can be studied. Surely BR possesses more personality than he is being credited with, and can remember something about the trip?

Who suggested the trip? Him or her?

And then!

Why isn't BR playing more of an active role in pursuing the answers to this mystery? I bet pounds to pennies that he could provide far more insight to her identity than Velling realizes. It seems like the in-laws are more concerned about this case than BR is. That speaks volumes, even if he doesn't. ;)
Click to expand...

I wrote a long post about BR's communication and speech in response to SmoothOperators post and then timed out and poof lost it!!! In regards to BR and his observation skills...

I seriously think that FLEK most likely let information slip during their marriage of several years. There is no way FLEK could be on point 365 a year for several years. No way! Impossible!

Because of her husband's noted communication issues (verbal/cognitive), I think that he would have been clueless in putting 2 + 2 together to piece together any ideas about FLEK's childhood and authentic background.

Even if I never told my husband a single thing about my childhood or life before 20 years old, he would still be able to put together a slight idea of where I am from.
e.g. I'm not familiar with dollar bills, I might let that slip by saying, "man my wallet is so much lighter now that I don't have to carry around all those loonies and oops..."
or I'd slip by saying, "Can we go to the rodeo, I love the rodeo, I miss going to the... um..."

And on and on!
 
Sherwood Park said:
I wrote a long post about BR's communication and speech in response to SmoothOperators post and then timed out and poof lost it!!! In regards to BR and his observation skills...

I seriously think that FLEK most likely let information slip during their marriage of several years. There is no way FLEK could be on point 365 a year for several years. No way! Impossible!

Because of her husband's noted communication issues (verbal/cognitive), I think that he would have been clueless in putting 2 + 2 together to piece together any ideas about FLEK's childhood and authentic background.

Even if I never told my husband a single thing about my childhood or life before 20 years old, he would still be able to put together a slight idea of where I am from.
e.g. I'm not familiar with dollar bills, I might let that slip by saying, "man my wallet is so much lighter now that I don't have to carry around all those loonies and oops..."
or I'd slip by saying, "Can we go to the rodeo, I love the rodeo, I miss going to the... um..."

And on and on!
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I said before, as well! I think that BR is a strong avenue to answers....but not if he has no interest or desire in upsetting his deceased wife's masterpiece. After all, he respected her wishes in good times and in bad....why not also in death? Maybe he chooses to remember her for who she was while with him and not who she was in the past or who she became.
 
I don't really think that BR has any answers. In the WS spirit and out of respect for the family, all that I'll say is that I simply think he is too self-centered. Also they were not married for all that long (6 years) to really know all the intimate details of her past life.

As for him getting hints from things she said that would be hints to her past, keep in mind that she was living in her assumed identity for over 15 years before they met and got married. She went from age 20+ to 35+ or 40+ years old in that identity. That is far long enough to erase any references to her old identity. Add the years that she might have been hiding before the identity change and the fact that she probably did not have a good past, I don't think she would have too many "I remember when..." moments. I certainly don't think she was ever counting money in terms of "loonies" or anything other then dollars and cents.
 
ClaireNC said:
I don't really think that BR has any answers. In the WS spirit and out of respect for the family, all that I'll say is that I simply think he is too self-centered. Also they were not married for all that long (6 years) to really know all the intimate details of her past life.

As for him getting hints from things she said that would be hints to her past, keep in mind that she was living in her assumed identity for over 15 years before they met and got married. She went from age 20+ to 35+ or 40+ years old in that identity. That is far long enough to erase any references to her old identity. Add the years that she might have been hiding before the identity change and the fact that she probably did not have a good past, I don't think she would have too many "I remember when..." moments. I certainly don't think she was ever counting money in terms of "loonies" or anything other then dollars and cents.
Click to expand...

CNC, the two "oops" examples came from my life.
Regardless of how long she was in her false identity she would still have let slip something that would relate to her pre-Ruff days. It wouldn't necessarily be conscious, which means that she wouldn't have used the phrase "I remember when...".

Only a specific disassociative type mental illness would have allowed her to completely erase everything from her pre-Ruff days. This would mean that she actually believed she was the new identity that she has taken on.There is no indication that this happened.
Velling even made the point that it is emotionally/mentally difficult to maintain a new identity because of the all the things you have to remember and basically be in actor mode all the time.
 
good discussion. working backwards we know that she did NOT do a good enough job with her identity to stop those around her from being suspicious (at the very least her in-laws). i suspect one of the reasons she switched jobs so often and seems to have preferred working from home is exactly because she found it difficult to maintain her new identity without slipping or without seeming suspicious to those around her.

if you think about it, how many times at work are you asked some innocuous question about where you grew up, your favorite sports team, your family, etc? if her reaction to these types of questions was as described by her in-laws, or if it bothered her to the point of not being able to keep up the cover then it makes perfect sense that she wouldn't last in environments around other people for very long.

br has been described by family and friends as someone who would probably be fairly unlikely to pick up on these types of context clues as well as someone who would be fairly likely to not question it if told to drop it.

i'm only theorizing, but it makes sense that flek would be attracted to someone who she could be more relaxed around, someone with whom she wouldn't have to put up her guard. like any normal person, she probably wanted to start a family etc etc and i can only guess that br was an attractive option - he didn't notice a lot, he didn't question things when she told him not to, she could have a family with him, etc. the only "problem" is that he's extremely close with his family and they DO notice these quirks and issues. we've been told she had a lot of issues with how close he was to his family but i'd posit that she thought, at least initially, that she could handle the family if she could keep them at a distance. the problem is it didn't work out that way. my 2 cents.
 
It was discussed somewhere about when she ordered the BST BCert and death certificate. I believe someone suggested that then... Anyone could order them, not just immediate family.
I'd like to know if this in fact was true. Wouldn't her 'before' name have to be given for ordering reference and mailing purposes? If so, would the agency / state not have those records?
 
I keep thinking that LEK was from a less than fortunate family from Mexico, Cuba or the like, was smuggled to the U.S. and proceeded to acquire a United States stance hence the identity theft.
She was apparently not a criminal on the run....
She was apparently not a missing person per sai.... On the books.
No one looking for her.

In the article which states they ran her DNA thru the system, I'm shocked they didn't specify more info about that!
Blood type, English, Italian .....etc. DNA can actually say a lot but it seems they didn't get anything relavent .... How odd is that?
 
SideKick said:
I keep thinking that LEK was from a less than fortunate family from Mexico, Cuba or the like, was smuggled to the U.S. and proceeded to acquire a United States stance hence the identity theft.
She was apparently not a criminal on the run....
She was apparently not a missing person per sai.... On the books.
No one looking for her.

In the article which states they ran her DNA thru the system, I'm shocked they didn't specify more info about that!
Blood type, English, Italian .....etc. DNA can actually say a lot but it seems they didn't get anything relavent .... How odd is that?
Click to expand...

You do not know that she wasn't a missing person. She could be.

You don't know if she wasn't a criminal on the run. A person can commit a serious crime and not be on the suspect list.

You don't know if someone isn't looking for her. (Why hide if you are not concerned with someone finding you or your whereabouts)

No indication what so ever that she was Latina. No indication that she was a woman of European decent who lived in Latin America.

There was no DNA match, nothing more they can do. They did get relevant information, it is in the news article.
 
has there been discussion regarding why she would have chosen kennedy as a last name? if she's trying to be inconspicuous and not have to answer questions she would have done better as "johnson" or "smith". kennedy is a loaded last name in the united states.
 
Sherwood Park said:
You do not know that she wasn't a missing person. She could be.

-- thx for your blunt answer SP. yes, she could have been missing, running from something but not "In the books", therefore, not your usual suspect is really what I meant. Relevant as far as DNA not gathering information about her. DNA can give more valid info and I was not necessarily thinking a match. I belong to many adoption groups where individuals get their DNA done and acquire astonishing results such as type of heritage, ethnic background.... I wasn't speaking of a match.



No indication what so ever that she was Latina. No indication that she was a woman of European decent who lived in Latin America.

- very true indeed! I was only suggesting that to me.... She looked Latino-ish.
Thanks tho :)

Have a great day!:seeya::seeya:
Click to expand...
 
kdsmith21 said:
I don't think they married in Vegas, pretty sure it was Texas probably Fannin County. It is in the original thread somewhere.
Click to expand...

:waitasec: Didn't they marry in Vegas & then have a ceremony in Texas?
 
SideKick said:
I keep thinking that LEK was from a less than fortunate family from Mexico, Cuba or the like, was smuggled to the U.S. and proceeded to acquire a United States stance hence the identity theft.
She was apparently not a criminal on the run....
She was apparently not a missing person per sai.... On the books.
No one looking for her.

In the article which states they ran her DNA thru the system, I'm shocked they didn't specify more info about that!
Blood type, English, Italian .....etc. DNA can actually say a lot but it seems they didn't get anything relavent .... How odd is that?
Click to expand...

I think that her height and skin color and facial features tend to cast doubt on the Mexican angle--my husband's side is Hispanic & I live in South Texas with lots of Hispanics. She's most likely Anglo.

She WAS a criminal on the run due to identity theft being illegal. For her to take that risk she was either involved in criminal activities, running from massive debt/criminal charges for embezzlement, or hiding from other criminals or abusers. Her life was a total fraud.

It's the total lie that she lived that bothers me. She married and had a baby without being honest about who she really was. She made a decision to not trust or confide in her own husband--she chose to live a lie. She chose to kill herself and leave only lies for her daughter. No answers. Maybe she was just mentally ill. Its such a devastating story!

What would make YOU drop out of your identity and take on a dead girl's?

I keep coming back to FEAR. You would have to be terrified of something or someone. JMOO:moo:
 
Liebchenmutti said:
I think that her height and skin color and facial features tend to cast doubt on the Mexican angle--my husband's side is Hispanic & I live in South Texas with lots of Hispanics. She's most likely Anglo.

She WAS a criminal on the run due to identity theft being illegal. For her to take that risk she was either involved in criminal activities, running from massive debt/criminal charges for embezzlement, or hiding from other criminals or abusers. Her life was a total fraud.

-- prior to being an identity theft criminal is all I was saying... :) whatever happened to her changed her to hide/mask herself.
What made her do it is the big question.

It's the total lie that she lived that bothers me. She married and had a baby without being honest about who she really was. She made a decision to not trust or confide in her own husband--she chose to live a lie. She chose to kill herself and leave only lies for her daughter. No answers. Maybe she was just mentally ill. Its such a devastating story!

I totally agree, and for the sake of her daughter I pray they ind the answers.

What would make YOU drop out of your identity and take on a dead girl's?

Me?

I keep coming back to FEAR. You would have to be terrified of something or someone. JMOO:moo:
Click to expand...

Definitely!
 
SideKick said:
I keep thinking that LEK was from a less than fortunate family from Mexico, Cuba or the like, was smuggled to the U.S. and proceeded to acquire a United States stance hence the identity theft.
She was apparently not a criminal on the run....
She was apparently not a missing person per sai.... On the books.
No one looking for her.

In the article which states they ran her DNA thru the system, I'm shocked they didn't specify more info about that!
Blood type, English, Italian .....etc. DNA can actually say a lot but it seems they didn't get anything relavent .... How odd is that?
Click to expand...

This is a good point- did they run DNA tests that would have shown her ethic/family history (like Ancestry by DNA or National Geographic's Geno 2.0)?
Although she looks like "just a white lady," it could help tell us if she was also part Native American, etc. I mean, I look like just a white lady but I know I'm carrying genes from Native American, Asian, & Eastern European as well as Scandinavian & British Islander. Even if she's 100% "white"/Euroepan, the tests results will usually narrow down your ancestry percentages to central, eastern, or southern Europe; the Caucus Region; Scandinavia; Finnish/Volga-Ural; British Islander; or Europena Jewish. There's a heck of a lot more to being/looking like "a white lady" than just being Anglo or "European." (Many "white" people who are part/full Italian, Greek, or from another Meditteranean county are often surprised to find out a significant portion of their DNA shows up as Middle Eastern or North African - which is mostly due to the Moors controlling those areas at different times; yet these people "look white" and not Middle Eastern.)

The ancestral DNA might help in the search for missing people she could be by looking at where people with her ethnicity/ethnicities settled in large groups in the US and last names.

If the ancestral DNA hasn't been done, I hope it will be soon...if not for sleuthing LEK's identity but for her daughter. Then the daughter would at least know something about her maternal side of the family, even if it's just the ethnic make-up. I hope if it hasn't been done, the Ruffs will have it done for Lori's daughter.
 
sloane7777 said:
They "ran off " and married in a small church in Denton Texas
Click to expand...

Yes, they married in a small church outside of Dallas.... As per the original link here.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/06/30/2637321/she-stole-an-identity-and-took.html

The DNA article is near the bottom of the page that no match was found but nothing about ancestral DNA finding as to her heritage...

Such a shame the baby was not well taken care of in Lori's care near the end, both were under weight and weak. Such a shame!

This a good article for some facts.
 
SideKick said:
It was discussed somewhere about when she ordered the BST BCert and death certificate. I believe someone suggested that then... Anyone could order them, not just immediate family.
I'd like to know if this in fact was true. Wouldn't her 'before' name have to be given for ordering reference and mailing purposes? If so, would the agency / state not have those records?
Click to expand...

Here:
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/06/30/2637321/she-stole-an-identity-and-took.html

Answered my question to the above. Records do not show who requested it.
(I know this was in the earlier threads.)
 
ktgirl said:
This is a good point- did they run DNA tests that would have shown her ethic/family history (like Ancestry by DNA or National Geographic's Geno 2.0)?
Although she looks like "just a white lady," it could help tell us if she was also part Native American, etc. I mean, I look like just a white lady but I know I'm carrying genes from Native American, Asian, & Eastern European as well as Scandinavian & British Islander. Even if she's 100% "white"/Euroepan, the tests results will usually narrow down your ancestry percentages to central, eastern, or southern Europe; the Caucus Region; Scandinavia; Finnish/Volga-Ural; British Islander; or Europena Jewish. There's a heck of a lot more to being/looking like "a white lady" than just being Anglo or "European." (Many "white" people who are part/full Italian, Greek, or from another Meditteranean county are often surprised to find out a significant portion of their DNA shows up as Middle Eastern or North African - which is mostly due to the Moors controlling those areas at different times; yet these people "look white" and not Middle Eastern.)

The ancestral DNA might help in the search for missing people she could be by looking at where people with her ethnicity/ethnicities settled in large groups in the US and last names.

If the ancestral DNA hasn't been done, I hope it will be soon...if not for sleuthing LEK's identity but for her daughter. Then the daughter would at least know something about her maternal side of the family, even if it's just the ethnic make-up. I hope if it hasn't been done, the Ruffs will have it done for Lori's daughter.
Click to expand...

From the live chat:

"If we do not get someone to make an identification from the photos that would be great but you are right - DNA may be our last best option -we have Autosomal DNA .
by Joseph Velling June 25 at 3:51 PM"

The Ancestry website they used tells you what information can be found and entered onto their website regarding DNA.
http://dna.ancestry.com/?o_iid=55737&o_lid=55737&o_sch=Web+Property

If they don't have the information regarding ethnicity that would be quite strange, because this is part of standard procedure when dealing with DNA and identity searches.
 
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